The Church decided the canon. How do you know you have the correct canon?

[One 2 question]

What you saw conradicts what god declared through His inspired writers. what you saw is a lie!

That's something we will find out in time, or should I say, in the everlasting.

But God declared Satan to be tertannly punished! That ends that story!

Until the next chapter of God's never ending story

god also said man is to die once and then comes his final judgment. That endsa that story!

Who said 'final' judgement? Again, God's story will never end. Unless you believe God's existence is not everlasting and without end.

God does not change His mind.

From our distorted perspective, restricted vantage point and extreme lack of information of God our Creator we tend to make our judgements and come to our conclusions of God, such as Who He is, What He does and why He does what He does.

For the most part, this limited resource, known as the bible only gives us such a small percentage of the full truth of God.

So when God sends His Spirit Who knows God because He is God, and He provides more information of Who sent Him, than why would people reject Him and the Truth He brings? I know God fearers did the same to Jesus when He was sent to them. I hoped we could've learnt from them. And instead welcome, embrace, enjoy the company of and accept the divine truth He brings directly to our spirit.

So whether God changes His mind or not, you can decide what you believe. For me, I want to explore His mind, the mind of Christ and get to know Them and Their Spirit.

 

[nedsk]

This is exactly what the RCC does...exalts it papal edicts and tradition over the scriptures. The video below documents this:

This would be laughable if it wasn't such an outright lie. History is replete with the RCC's suppression of the scriptures and the murder of those who attempted to translate into the vernacular. The video below documents this:

Only the truth can make someone this angry ^^^^^^

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is exactly what the RCC does...exalts it papal edicts and tradition over the scriptures. The video below documents this:

Absolute nonsense.
You can’t name a SINGLE Catholic Tradition that jas been placed OVER the Word of God.

On the contrary - it is Protestantism that invented unbiblical doctrines such as:
Sola Scriptura
Sola Fide
Eternal Security
Limited Atonement
Imputed righteousness
Denominations etc.

This would be laughable if it wasn't such an outright lie. History is replete with the RCC's suppression of the scriptures and the murder of those who attempted to translate into the vernacular. The video below documents this:

More revisionist, anti-Catholic manure . . .

The Church didn’t “suppress” the Scriptures. In fact - MANY English versions of the Scriptures existed before Wycliff - let alone, Tyndale. They were authorized and completely legal (see “Where We Got the Bible” by Henry Graham, ch. 11, “Vernacular Scriptures Before Wycliff”).
Time for a History Lesson . . .

Nobody was punished for merely “translating” the Scriptures, It was for perverting them. For example, William Tyndale’s translation was condemned, not only by the Church – but by anti-Catholics at the time like Henry VIII, who issued the following warning:
“… the translation of the Scripture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people (1531).”

Many of the people who “translated” the Scriptures weren’t qualified or educationally equipped to assume this undertaking. As a result – many errors and heresies came out of these translations. It was because oof this that unauthorized translations were outlawed in the 13th century.

Because heretics were seen by governments as traitors and revolutionaries, they were dealt with, in large part by the state.
Instead of watching skewed, revisionist YouTube videos - do some actual HOMEWORK . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

So show biblical proof for your claim as regards to teh Spirit. There are three persons to the one God show where anyone prayed to the Holy spirit. You know what I am asking and seem determined to dodge answering it directly.

I haven’t “dodged” anything. I have warned you quite clearly that your false doctrine of Sola Scriptura is Biblically-untenable. In other words – it goes AGAINST Scripture.

YOUR heresy oof refusing to worship God in the Holy Spirit is based on your

Well as the church is the body of Christ and I am part of the Body of Christ, whoever does not listen to me does not listen to Jesus!

WRONG.

First of all - you alone are NOT the Body of Christ.

Secondly, when Jesus instructed the crowds – He was instructing ALL of us. When He instructed His Disciples alone – He was instructing the LEADERS of His Church.
Luke 10:16 was NOT spoken to the crowds.

And James not Peter was the first head of the church. Whoops the RCC forgot that.

WRONG.
James was the Bishop of the Church in Jerusalem. Peter was the Lead Shepherd

- Jesus singled out Peter (NOT James) when He gave him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19)

- Jesus asked Peter (NOT James) to feed His lambs and tend His sheep (John 21:15-19)

- Jesus said that He prayed for Peter ALONE (NOT James) to strengthen the others and bring them back to faith (Luke 22:31-32)

- Peter (NOT James) called "Protos" (First) in the Gospel (Matt. 10:2)

- Peter's name (NOT James) occurs first in all lists of apostles (Matt. 10:2; Mk 3:16; Luke 6:14; Acts 1:13)

- Peter (NOT James) is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the apostles (Mark 16:7)

- Peter (NOT James) takes the lead in calling for a successor for Judas (Acts 1:22)

- Peter (NOT James) is the first person to speak (and only one recorded) after Pentecost, making him the first Christian to preach the Gospel in the Church (Acts 2:14-36)

- Peter (NOT James) works the first miracle of the Church Age, healing a lame man (Acts 3:6-12)

- Peter (NOT James) utters the first anathema (Ananias and Sapphira) affirmed by God (Acts 5:2-11)

- Peter (NOT James) is the first person after Christ to raise the dead (Acts 9:40)

- Cornelius is told by an angel to seek out Peter (NOT James) for instruction in Christianity (Acts 10:1-6)

- Peter's name (NOT James) is mentioned more often than all the other disciples put together

I agreed with that biblical statement. but only those things needed for all the generrations of the church were sritten down. Remember there were 70 gospels, four revelations, many other Pauline letters, but God opted not to make them teh supreme authority of the church known as the bible.

You’ll have to provide BIBLICAL evidence for this claim.

Ands remember those letters and oral statements became the bible!

Then YOU need to prove this.
Can you provide concrete evidence for this claim?

Or were merely personal exhortations for the local church Paul is referring to. It is not some secret sacred tradition to be held on par with Scripture. Just like the pseudepigrapha books. They are other writings, but not on par with Scripture.

Once again – to WHICH of these “Secret” Traditions are you referring??
Name ONE . . .

Remember these letters asnd oral statements became scripture. All the other writings handed down my give valuable insight but are not needed for doctrine and instruction in righteousness. I have seen what are called many of the other writings of New Testament authors and they provide great learning and practical applications, but God decided they were not to be included in teh most sacred of books called the bible. Many of these letters merely reaffirm the teachings found in the canonized letters and provide no new substance.

First of all - being a Sola Scripturist, the onus is on YOU to show me where the BIBLE tell us that ALL of the Apostolic Tradition was written down as Scripture.

Chapter and Verse, please . . .

 

[David in NJ]

Protestants have 66 books, we have 76 in Orthodoxy. A lot of times people say God decided the canon of the Bible and while we can all agree, it is still avoiding the question as to when and how God did it. Famous Protestant scholars F.F. Bruce and Lee McDonald show in their books on the formation of the canon that there was no fixed OT canon and that the early church fathers had differing canons, many of which included the apocrypha.

A common answer Protestants give when asked about how they know the correct canon is citing the book of John where it says we are guided by the Holy Spirit. However, this is presupposing that the book of John belongs in the canon when in fact the question is prior or a priori to Scripture. We cannot go to the scriptures to tell us what the correct canon is when the canon itself is what’s in question along with the book of John.

If the Church truly went rogue as the reformers claimed, then wouldn’t it be conceivable for all of us come to up with our own canon on that basis? If I said the Bible is just the first four books of the New Testament, who would anyone be to tell me I’m wrong?

It only makes sense that there is a historical Church because Christ himself lived in history. Christianity and the Bible cannot be divorced from its history.

Simple:
A.) God is in control of all things related to the Holy Scriptures

B.) God sets apart a soul thru Faith in Christ and then fills them with the Holy Spirit = the Spirit of Truth

C.) LORD Jesus Christ, the Apostle Peter, the Apostle Paul, the Apostle John all AGREE = "no lie is of the truth"

 

[Wick Stick]

This is sheer speculation and runs counter to the NT.

No, I'm not speculating. I am regurgitating what I've read in Ante-Nicene Fathers. That's a set of hardcopy books I own, so I can't exactly link you to them, but you can buy a set of your own. The thing to pay attention to are the introductions to each book, where Biblical scholars talk about the dating and canonizing of each book.

Alternatively, https://www.earlychristianwritings.com contains a lot of the same information.

Peter mentions Paul's writings AS SCRIPTURE. see 2 Pt 3.16:

... as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things. Therein are some things hard to understand, which those who are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Yes, I believe I mentioned this passage in my previous post. This is not a compelling argument. The word SCRIPTURE (γραφή) originally just means "something written." Where the writing is special, there's usually an adjective attached to it to explain - γραφαὶ ἅγιαι (holy writings) or αἱ γραφαὶ τῶν προφητῶν (the writings of the prophets). Source is Thayer's lexicon:

STRONGS G1124:
γραφή, -ῆς, ἡ, (γράφω, cf. γλυφή and γλύφω);
a. a writing, thing written, [from Sophocles down]: πᾶσα γραφή every scripture namely, of the O. T., 2 Timothy 3:16; plural γραφαὶ ἅγιαι, holy scriptures, the sacred books (of the O. T.), Romans 1:2; προφητικαί, Romans 16:26; αἱ γραφαὶ τῶν προφητῶν, Matthew 26:56.

What's happening here is that you are taking the modern understanding of the word Scripture, and applying it backwards in time to the 1st century. That's an easy mistake to make, but... that dog doesn't hunt. When Peter calls something γραφαὶ, he isn't implying that it's canonical. That idea doesn't exist at that period of time.

I am open to correction because I want to know the truth. Show me where you got this WIDE distribution of Barnabas which was written around 130 AD. Barnabas was written too late to be considered Scripture.

From https://earlychristianwritings.com/info/barnabas.html:

The ancient writers who refer to this Epistle unanimously attribute it to Barnabas the Levite, of Cyprus, who held such an honourable place in the infant Church. Clement of Alexandria does so again and again (Strom., ii. 6, ii. 7, etc.). Origen describes it as "a Catholic Epistle" (Cont. Cels., i. 63)

In case it isn't obvious, Clement was bishop in Rome, while Origen lived originally in Egypt before moving to Judea. WIDE

As for dating, internal evidence in the book narrows the dating of the book to between 71-132 AD. Scholars don't agree exactly where in that range it should go. I tend to agree with those who say the lack of quotes from other NT books suggests the date should be earlier rather than later.

(Early date notwithstanding, I don't think this book should be in the canon. It has some theological defects.)

 

[nedsk]

Simple:
A.) God is in control of all things related to the Holy Scriptures

B.) God sets apart a soul thru Faith in Christ and then fills them with the Holy Spirit = the Spirit of Truth

C.) LORD Jesus Christ, the Apostle Peter, the Apostle Paul, the Apostle John all AGREE = "no lie is of the truth"

A) so where does he teach sola scriptura?

B) but faith is not sufficient

C) including sola scriptura

 

[David in NJ]

A) so where does he teach sola scriptura?

B) but faith is not sufficient

C) including sola scriptura

A.) Here are just three passages denoting Sola Scriptura = there are more

John 5:24 -Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:63 - The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are Spirit and they are Life.
1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

B.) My Post 265 says: "God sets apart a soul thru Faith in Christ"
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast

C.) Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[shepherdsword]

Only the truth can make someone this angry ^^^^^^

Angry...you mean like the RCC burning at the stake those who translated the bible? Or is more like the anger they exhibited as they tortured and murdered objectors during the inquisition?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The great truth is that God's Spirit of Truth goes way beyond what the bibles cover in scope and volume. Example, the details of eternity before Satan's entry into this creation is hardly mentioned in the scriptures or the bibles.

Because it was irrelevant for us to know and live godly lives! If God wanted us to know He would have told millions of His faithful followers and not just you in visions and dreams.

 

[nedsk]

A.) Here are just three passages denoting Sola Scriptura = there are more

John 5:24 -Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:63 - The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are Spirit and they are Life.
1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

B.) My Post 265 says: "God sets apart a soul thru Faith in Christ"
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast

C.) Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

A.) Here are just three passages denoting Sola Scriptura = there are more

John 5:24 -Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:63 - The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are Spirit and they are Life.
1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

B.) My Post 265 says: "God sets apart a soul thru Faith in Christ"
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast

C.) Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

A) nothing there says scripture only

B) yes saved through faith and Abraham's faith was brought to completion by works. Why does faith need to be "completed"? James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself is dead if it does not have works. Even the demons believe and tremble James 2: 19. Then to punctuate the point James 2:26;For just as th body is dead without a spirit l, so without works is also dead.

C) If faith was sufficient it wouldn't be dead without works

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That's something we will find out in time, or should I say, in the everlasting.

Well as you have little respect for Gods Inspired Word yes you will have to wait to see Gods Word does not change as you wish it to.

Until the next chapter of God's never ending story

I am saddened you do not accept eternity to mean eternity. Maybe after several eons in time god will change His mind and cast you into the Lake of fire. I guess you will have to wait to see if that happens as well.

From our distorted perspective, restricted vantage point and extreme lack of information of God our Creator we tend to make our judgements and come to our conclusions of God, such as Who He is, What He does and why He does what He does.

For the most part, this limited resource, known as the bible only gives us such a small percentage of the full truth of God.

So when God sends His Spirit Who knows God because He is God, and He provides more information of Who sent Him, than why would people reject Him and the Truth He brings? I know God fearers did the same to Jesus when He was sent to them. I hoped we could've learnt from them. And instead welcome, embrace, enjoy the company of and accept the divine truth He brings directly to our spirit.

So whether God changes His mind or not, you can decide what you believe. For me, I want to explore His mind, the mind of Christ and get to know Them and Their Spirit.

One simple reason. when these new revelations and information contradicts the wrwitten Word known as the Bible, we can know wqith 100% certainty, you have been fed a lie.

What do you think of people who have had visions of th elake of fire and seen millions there already? According to teh bible no one occupies it until eternity is to start in REv.

How about all those conflicitng "revelations" of heaven? do you accept them all as God given as you accept all the mutterings and chirpings you receive?

 

[nedsk]

Angry...you mean like the RCC burning at the stake those who translated the bible? Or is more like the anger they exhibited as they tortured and murdered objectors during the inquisition?

Hilarious. Even if all that.were true you have the delusional idea that means you aren't angry at the truth.

 

[shepherdsword]

Absolute nonsense.
You can’t name a SINGLE Catholic Tradition that jas been placed OVER the Word of God.

​

Heresy	Date
OF ALL THE HUMAN TRADITIONS taught and practiced by the Roman Catholic Church, which are contrary to the Bible, the most ancient are the prayers for the dead and the sign of the Cross. Both began 300 years after Christ.	310
Wax Candles introduced in church. about	320
Veneration of angels and dead saints.	375
The Mass, as a daily celebration, adopted.	394
The worship of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and the use of the term, "Mother of God", as applied to her, originated in the Council of Ephesus	431
Priests began to dress differently from the laity	500
The doctrine of Purgatory was first established by Gregory the Great	593
The Latin language, as the language of prayer and worship in churches, was also imposed by Pope Gregory I. 600 years after Christ The Word of God forbids praying and teaching in an unknown tongue. (I Cor. 14:9).	600
The Bible teaches that we pray to God alone. In the primitive church never were prayers directed to Mary, or to dead saints. This practice began in the Roman Church (Matt. 11:28; Luke 1:46; Acts 10:25-26; 14:14-18)	600
The Papacy is of pagan origin. The title of pope or universal bishop, was first given to the bishop of Rome by the wicked emperor Phocas This he did to spite Bishop Ciriacus of Constantinople, who had justly excommunicated him for his having caused the assassination of his predecessor emperor Mauritius. Gregory 1, then bishop of Rome, refused the title, but his successor, Boniface III, first assumed title "pope." Jesus did not appoint Peter to the headship of the apostles and forbade any such notion. (Lk. 22:24-26; Eph. 1:22-23; Col. 1:18; I Cor. 3:11). Note:-- Nor is there any mention in Scripture, nor in history, that Peter ever was in Rome, much less that he was pope there for 25 years; Clement, 3rd bishop of Rome, remarks that there is no real 1st century evidence that Peter ever was in Rome."	610
The kissing of the Pope's feet It had been a pagan custom to kiss the feet of emperors. The Word of God forbids such practices. (Read Acts 10:25-26; Rev. 19:10; 22:9).	709
The Temporal power of the Popes When Pepin, the usurper of the throne of France, descended into Italy, called by Pope Stephen II, to war against the Italian Lombards, he defeated them and gave the city of Rome and surrounding territory to the pope. Jesus expressly forbade such a thing, and He himself refused worldly kingship. (Read Matt. 4:8-9; 20:25-26; John 18:38).	750
Worship of the cross, images and relicswas authorized This was by order of Dowager Empress Irene of Constantinople, who first caused to pluck the eyes of her own son, Constantine VI, and then called a church council at the request of Hadrian I, pope of Rome at that time. Such practice is called simply IDOLATRY in the Bible, and is severly condemned. (Read Ex. 20:4; 3:17; Deut. 27:15; Psalm 115).	788
Holy Water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by the priest, was authorized	850
The veneration of St. Joseph began	890
The baptism of bells was instituted by Pope John XIV	965
Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV Every believer and follower of Christ is called saint in the Bible. (Read Rom. 1:7; I Col. 1:2).	995
Fasting on Fridays and during Lentwere imposed Imposed by popes said to be interested in the commerce of fish. (Bull, or permit to eat meat), some authorities say, began in the year 700. This is against the plain teaching of the Bible. (Read Matt. 15:10; I Cor. 10:25; I Tim. 4:1-3).	998
The Masswas developed gradually as a sacrifice; attendance made obligatory in the 11th century. The Bible teaches that the sacrifice of Christ was offered once and for all, and is not to be repeated, but only commemorated in the Lord's Supper. (Read Heb. 7:27; 9:26-28; 10:10-14).
The celibacyof the priesthood was decreed by Pope Hildebrand, Boniface VII Jesus imposed no such rule, nor did any of the apostles. On the contrary, St. Peter was a married man, and St. Paul says that bishops were to have wife and children. (Read I Tim. 3:2,5, and 12; Matt. 8:14-15).	1079

​

	1870
Pope Plus X, in the year 1907, condemned together with "Modernism", all the discoveries of modern science which are not approved by the Church Pius IX had done the same thing in the Syllabus of 1864.	1907
In the year 1930 Pius XI, condemned the Public Schools	1930
In the year 1931 the same pope Pius XI, reaffirmed the doctrine that Mary is "the Mother of God" This doctrine was first invented by the Council of Ephesus in the year 431. This is a heresy contrary by Mary's own words. (Read Luke 1:46-49; John 2: l-5).	1931
In the year 1950 the last dogma was proclaimed by Pope Pins XII, the Assumption of the Virgin Mary	1950

.
The Church didn’t “suppress” the Scriptures. In fact - MANY English versions of the Scriptures existed before Wycliff - let alone, Tyndale. They were authorized and completely legal (see “Where We Got the Bible” by Henry Graham, ch. 11, “Vernacular Scriptures Before Wycliff”).
Time for a History Lesson . . .

Nobody was punished for merely “translating” the Scriptures, It was for perverting them. For example, William Tyndale’s translation was condemned, not only by the Church – but by anti-Catholics at the time like Henry VIII, who issued the following warning:
“… the translation of the Scripture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people (1531).”

Many of the people who “translated” the Scriptures weren’t qualified or educationally equipped to assume this undertaking. As a result – many errors and heresies came out of these translations. It was because oof this that unauthorized translations were outlawed in the 13th century.
.

They absolutely DID suppress them. Unless you could read Latin. Tyndale was the first to translate the scriptures into English from the Greek and the RCC burned him at the stake for it.

Because heretics were seen by governments as traitors and revolutionaries, they were dealt with, in large part by the state.
Instead of watching skewed, revisionist YouTube videos - do some actual HOMEWORK . .

This is an outrageous lie. The translators were showing the truth of the scriptures by exposing the anti-biblical heresies of the RCC. You need to do some homework and leave that Mary worship cult from hell. Read Foxe's book of martyry to examine the abominations the RCC committed. If you had watched the videos I posted instead of the typical cult member dismissal of any truth that proves your error. I DEFY you to present one scripture that Tyndale "corrupted" You just believe a pack of lies

 

[nedsk]

​

Heresy	Date
OF ALL THE HUMAN TRADITIONS taught and practiced by the Roman Catholic Church, which are contrary to the Bible, the most ancient are the prayers for the dead and the sign of the Cross. Both began 300 years after Christ.	310
Wax Candles introduced in church. about	320
Veneration of angels and dead saints.	375
The Mass, as a daily celebration, adopted.	394
The worship of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and the use of the term, "Mother of God", as applied to her, originated in the Council of Ephesus	431
Priests began to dress differently from the laity	500
The doctrine of Purgatory was first established by Gregory the Great	593
The Latin language, as the language of prayer and worship in churches, was also imposed by Pope Gregory I. 600 years after Christ The Word of God forbids praying and teaching in an unknown tongue. (I Cor. 14:9).	600
The Bible teaches that we pray to God alone. In the primitive church never were prayers directed to Mary, or to dead saints. This practice began in the Roman Church (Matt. 11:28; Luke 1:46; Acts 10:25-26; 14:14-18)	600
The Papacy is of pagan origin. The title of pope or universal bishop, was first given to the bishop of Rome by the wicked emperor Phocas This he did to spite Bishop Ciriacus of Constantinople, who had justly excommunicated him for his having caused the assassination of his predecessor emperor Mauritius. Gregory 1, then bishop of Rome, refused the title, but his successor, Boniface III, first assumed title "pope." Jesus did not appoint Peter to the headship of the apostles and forbade any such notion. (Lk. 22:24-26; Eph. 1:22-23; Col. 1:18; I Cor. 3:11). Note:-- Nor is there any mention in Scripture, nor in history, that Peter ever was in Rome, much less that he was pope there for 25 years; Clement, 3rd bishop of Rome, remarks that there is no real 1st century evidence that Peter ever was in Rome."	610
The kissing of the Pope's feet It had been a pagan custom to kiss the feet of emperors. The Word of God forbids such practices. (Read Acts 10:25-26; Rev. 19:10; 22:9).	709
The Temporal power of the Popes When Pepin, the usurper of the throne of France, descended into Italy, called by Pope Stephen II, to war against the Italian Lombards, he defeated them and gave the city of Rome and surrounding territory to the pope. Jesus expressly forbade such a thing, and He himself refused worldly kingship. (Read Matt. 4:8-9; 20:25-26; John 18:38).	750
Worship of the cross, images and relicswas authorized This was by order of Dowager Empress Irene of Constantinople, who first caused to pluck the eyes of her own son, Constantine VI, and then called a church council at the request of Hadrian I, pope of Rome at that time. Such practice is called simply IDOLATRY in the Bible, and is severly condemned. (Read Ex. 20:4; 3:17; Deut. 27:15; Psalm 115).	788
Holy Water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by the priest, was authorized	850
The veneration of St. Joseph began	890
The baptism of bells was instituted by Pope John XIV	965
Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV Every believer and follower of Christ is called saint in the Bible. (Read Rom. 1:7; I Col. 1:2).	995
Fasting on Fridays and during Lentwere imposed Imposed by popes said to be interested in the commerce of fish. (Bull, or permit to eat meat), some authorities say, began in the year 700. This is against the plain teaching of the Bible. (Read Matt. 15:10; I Cor. 10:25; I Tim. 4:1-3).	998
The Masswas developed gradually as a sacrifice; attendance made obligatory in the 11th century. The Bible teaches that the sacrifice of Christ was offered once and for all, and is not to be repeated, but only commemorated in the Lord's Supper. (Read Heb. 7:27; 9:26-28; 10:10-14).
The celibacyof the priesthood was decreed by Pope Hildebrand, Boniface VII Jesus imposed no such rule, nor did any of the apostles. On the contrary, St. Peter was a married man, and St. Paul says that bishops were to have wife and children. (Read I Tim. 3:2,5, and 12; Matt. 8:14-15).	1079

​

	1870
Pope Plus X, in the year 1907, condemned together with "Modernism", all the discoveries of modern science which are not approved by the Church Pius IX had done the same thing in the Syllabus of 1864.	1907
In the year 1930 Pius XI, condemned the Public Schools	1930
In the year 1931 the same pope Pius XI, reaffirmed the doctrine that Mary is "the Mother of God" This doctrine was first invented by the Council of Ephesus in the year 431. This is a heresy contrary by Mary's own words. (Read Luke 1:46-49; John 2: l-5).	1931
In the year 1950 the last dogma was proclaimed by Pope Pins XII, the Assumption of the Virgin Mary	1950

They absolutely DID suppress them. Unless you could read Latin. Tyndale was the first to translate the scriptures into English from the Greek and the RCC burned him at the stake for it.

This is an outrageous lie. The translators were showing the truth of the scriptures by exposing the anti-biblical heresies of the RCC. You need to do some homework and leave that Mary worship cult from hell. Read Foxe's book of martyry to examine the abominations the RCC committed. If you had watched the videos I posted instead of the typical cult member dismissal of any truth that proves your error. I DEFY you to present one scripture that Tyndale "corrupted" You just believe a pack of lies

Your credibility will be greatly increased if you can show where sola scriptura and sola ride are taught in Scripture. While you're at it show us where recitation of the magic incantation you guys love so.much is located in Scripture

 

[David in NJ]

A) nothing there says scripture only

B) yes saved through faith and Abraham's faith was brought to completion by works. Why does faith need to be "completed"? James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself is dead if it does not have works. Even the demons believe and tremble James 2: 19. Then to punctuate the point James 2:26;For just as th body is dead without a spirit l, so without works is also dead.

C) If faith was sufficient it wouldn't be dead without works

i have to step out - will be back later

You erred on your response to (A) for it is CLEAR that the words of God are Spirit, the Way, the Truth and the Life

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I haven’t “dodged” anything. I have warned you quite clearly that your false doctrine of Sola Scriptura is Biblically-untenable. In other words – it goes AGAINST Scripture.

YOUR heresy oof refusing to worship God in the Holy Spirit is based on your

No it doesn't!

And you are still dodging showing from Scripture where we are to pray to the Holy Spirit! You have used logic and reasoning but not Scripture

WRONG.
James was the Bishop of the Church in Jerusalem. Peter was the Lead Shepherd

- Jesus singled out Peter (NOT James) when He gave him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19)

- Jesus asked Peter (NOT James) to feed His lambs and tend His sheep (John 21:15-19)

- Jesus said that He prayed for Peter ALONE (NOT James) to strengthen the others and bring them back to faith (Luke 22:31-32)

- Peter (NOT James) called "Protos" (First) in the Gospel (Matt. 10:2)

- Peter's name (NOT James) occurs first in all lists of apostles (Matt. 10:2; Mk 3:16; Luke 6:14; Acts 1:13)

- Peter (NOT James) is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the apostles (Mark 16:7)

- Peter (NOT James) takes the lead in calling for a successor for Judas (Acts 1:22)

- Peter (NOT James) is the first person to speak (and only one recorded) after Pentecost, making him the first Christian to preach the Gospel in the Church (Acts 2:14-36)

- Peter (NOT James) works the first miracle of the Church Age, healing a lame man (Acts 3:6-12)

- Peter (NOT James) utters the first anathema (Ananias and Sapphira) affirmed by God (Acts 5:2-11)

- Peter (NOT James) is the first person after Christ to raise the dead (Acts 9:40)

- Cornelius is told by an angel to seek out Peter (NOT James) for instruction in Christianity (Acts 10:1-6)

- Peter's name (NOT James) is mentioned more often than all the other disciples put together

Being mentioned first does not make one a"poop (oops Pope)

He is first because Jesus gave Him the keys. Keys open doors and Peter opened the door to utter anathemas and to open th egospel to Jews, Samaritans and Gentiles.

Jesus praqyed for Peter because Satan was going to sift Him as wheat.

Peter was also the first and only oof the Apostle to openly deny Jesus and swore an oath to that fact!

Peter is the only Apostle recorded to go back to Judaism when confronted by the Judaizers.

Paul's name is mentioned more than Peter, so that should make Paul Pope according to the logic of your statement there.

And James was the lead Shepherd for he was th eone who pronounced the rules for the gentiles, not Peter. Only one who was full le3ader and not just a local Pastor can do that.

And Remember Peter denied the Lord three times, so three times Jesus asked Peter about his love for Him and to feed the lambs, James and the other Apostles also fed the lambs and Paul fed far more lambs than Peter.

Then YOU need to prove this.
Can you provide concrete evidence for this claim?

Yes! Pick up that book called the Holy bible and you will see them all there.

Let me ask you this: In your masses you attend, why doesn't the priest read from the Apocalypse of Peter or James, or the epistle of Barnabas, or the Epistle to the Laodiceans or third Corinthians or any of the other 60+ gospels written in the first century? I know the answer but I am checking to see if you know why.

 

[shepherdsword]

Hilarious. Even if all that.were true you have the delusional idea that means you aren't angry at the truth.

Hilarious? The death of THOUSANDS of innocents is amusing? It's pretty easy to see who is delusional here...the one that swallows a pack of anti-christ lies from the RCC and calling it "truth" now that is delusional.

 

[nedsk]

Hilarious? The death of THOUSANDS of innocents is amusing? It's pretty easy to see who is delusional here...the one that swallows a pack of anti-christ lies from the RCC and calling it "truth" now that is delusional.

No your drama queenery is hilarious and delusional. just show us where the solas appear in Scripture and where it says the magic incantation must be recited. Hysteria isnt an argument.

 

[shepherdsword]

Your credibility will be greatly increased if you can show where sola scriptura and sola ride are taught in Scripture. While you're at it show us where recitation of the magic incantation you guys love so.much is located in Scripture

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Not sure what you mean by "magic incantation" Unless you are referring to the "abra Cadabra" right before you worship the little wafer god you claim is Jesus. How about a DNA sample from the communion to see just what is really is? In any case YOUR credibility would increase if you can explain the numerous heretical practices of the RCC that I posted.