The Church decided the canon. How do you know you have the correct canon?

[Ronald Nolette]

2 things. Who said God needs to tell millions of people? Who said God has not revealed these same truths to others?

Well as He commanded the Apostles to go and make disciples and those disciples to make disciples and so on and so on.....

Who said? god did!

Romans 10:9-15

King James Version

​

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

If people are not sent- others will not hear of the death and resurrection of Jesus for their sins and die in their sins! God will not use another way except believers telling people! He commanded it!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

• It contains a prophecy that didn't come to pass shortly thereafter (the rebuilding of the temple), and that's a deal-breaker for me.
• It tries to distance Christianity from Judaism. That's understandable considering the politics of the day, but theologically it doesn't pass muster for me.

Can you find the prophecy regarding rebuilding the temple? I don't recall it at all.

As for distancing Christianity from Judaism that would be correct. Romans 11. Paul was against the Judaizers who went to Galatia to make the Gentile Christians keep the Jewish Laws that Christ fulfilled.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Paul was against the Judaizers who went to Galatia to make the Gentile Christians keep the Jewish Laws that Christ fulfilled.

The hebrew roots movement is still trying to do that today with their sabbath stuff and friday she bats etc

 

[Wick Stick]

Can you find the prophecy regarding rebuilding the temple? I don't recall it at all.

As for distancing Christianity from Judaism that would be correct. Romans 11. Paul was against the Judaizers who went to Galatia to make the Gentile Christians keep the Jewish Laws that Christ fulfilled.

It's in chapter 16:

1 Moreover I will tell you likewise concerning the temple, how these wretched men being led astray set their hope on the building, and not
on their God that made them, as being a house of God. 2 For like the Gentiles almost they consecrated Him in the temple. But what saith the Lord abolishing the temple? Learn ye. Who hath measured the heaven with a span, or hath measured the earth with his hand? Have not I, saith the Lord? The heaven is My throne and the earth the footstool of My feet. What manner of house will ye build for Me? Or what shall be my resting place? Ye perceive that their hope is vain.

3 Furthermore He saith again; Behold they that pulled down this temple themselves shall build it. 4 So it cometh to pass; for because they went to war it was pulled down by their enemies. Now also the very servants of their enemies shall build it up.

The first 2 verses are no problem. They mirror Stephen's testimony in Acts 7 where he says that God didn't want or need a temple.

Verse 3 is weird. It appears to quote Scripture, except that there is no comparable phrase in any book that I can find. I have no idea what is being quoted as Scripture here, but it isn't our Bibles today.

Verse 4 then claims that this mysterious prophecy will be fulfilled in the near future - that the temple will be re-built by the same people who pulled it down. This doesn't appear to have happened.

The Romans destroyed the temple in 70AD. They didn't re-build the Jewish temple. There was no restoratoin. Although... they did build a pagan temple to their god Jupiter on the site. I guess if you squint pretty hard that could be considered a fulfillment?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It's in chapter 16:

The first 2 verses are no problem. They mirror Stephen's testimony in Acts 7 where he says that God didn't want or need a temple.

Verse 3 is weird. It appears to quote Scripture, except that there is no comparable phrase in any book that I can find. I have no idea what is being quoted as Scripture here, but it isn't our Bibles today.

Verse 4 then claims that this mysterious prophecy will be fulfilled in the near future - that the temple will be re-built by the same people who pulled it down. This doesn't appear to have happened.

The Romans destroyed the temple in 70AD. They didn't re-build the Jewish temple. There was no restoratoin. Although... they did build a pagan temple to their god Jupiter on the site. I guess if you squint pretty hard that could be considered a fulfillment?

You're thinking of a literal temple. No. It is us! We are His Kingdom. Thanks for showing me. This just solidifies that the EoB is canonical.

Barnabas 16:8
But it shall be built in the name of the Lord. Give heed then that
the temple of the Lord may be built gloriously.

Barnabas 16:9
How? Understand ye. By receiving the remission of our sins and
hoping on the Name we became new, created afresh from the beginning.
Wherefore God dwelleth truly in our habitation within us. How? The
word of his faith, the calling of his promise, the wisdom of the
ordinances, the commandments of the teaching, He Himself prophesying
in us, He Himself dwelling in us, opening for us who had been in
bondage unto death the door of the temple, which is the mouth, and
giving us repentance leadeth us to the incorruptible temple.

Barnabas 16:10
For he that desireth to be saved looketh not to the man, but to Him
that dwelleth and speaketh in him, being amazed at this that he has
never at any time heard these words from the mouth of the speaker,
nor himself ever desired to hear them. This is the spiritual temple
built up to the Lord.

 

[One 2 question]

Well as He commanded the Apostles to go and make disciples and those disciples to make disciples and so on and so on.....

Who said? god did!

Romans 10:9-15​

​

King James Version​

​

​

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

If people are not sent- others will not hear of the death and resurrection of Jesus for their sins and die in their sins! God will not use another way except believers telling people! He commanded it!

The actual person who wrote these words did not have a human sent to him. Rather Jesus Himself came to Saul of Tarsus, who became Paul an apostle.

People have testified how they met God in dreams and repented, had faith and received the Spirit. Others through an audible voice, like Paul. Others through nature, where they were made aware of its Creator.

Many didn't have the scriptures or a human to assist them. The Spirit of God Who convicted them of their sinful state also taught them His ways.

Later, like Paul, they were discipled by the Spirit through humans.

Yet I acknowledge that there are many who were added to the body of Christ through Spirit possessed disciples of the Messiah.

All glory to our Father in heaven, His precious Son and Their Spirit Who loves Their creation and have devised a plan to save some from hell and the lake to fire AND in time will save everyone, as They are not willing that any should suffer there forever, with end.
There will be an end to their suffering when they are bought to repentance. The irresistible qualities of their Creator will draw them. Isn't this fantastic news, the Gospel of the never ending kingdom of God when He will have gathered all things to Himself. One massive happy united family under our Creator.

 

[nedsk]

He clearly said the flesh profits nothing. Your selective cherry picking of assigning metaphors shows your desperation. Only someone totally ignorant would think Jesus was promoting some cannibalistic ritual.Like I said....prove the bread is actually his flesh with a DNA sample. You can't because it isn't

Cherry picking? LMBO. If that's your only rebuttal then we know you have no solid counter argument. I gave you the entire thing.

So your argument is that the flesh profits nothing so when Jesus said MULTIPLE times eat my flesh he said that because the flesh profits nothing? Lol. He said flesh not have faith, not my word and not bread.

There's no need for DNA because I take Jesus at his word. I actually believe him. Apparently you need the son of God to prove himself to you. There isn't any reason for him to use the word flesh, if he didn't mean eat my flesh. AGAIN you are arguing with Jesus not me.

 

[One 2 question]

A.) Here are just three passages denoting Sola Scriptura = there are more

John 5:24 -Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.

We know that 'My words' of Jesus were mostly never recorded, let alone ALL contained in a compilation of books known as the bible.

This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

So no Sola Scriptura, for there's more, much much more, that we know for sure. Unless what John testified was wrong.

John 6:63 - The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are Spirit and they are Life.

Again, most of what Jesus taught, what He received from His Father and gave to those who listened to Him, was never documented. (Jhn 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me)

So the scriptures does not contain all of God's words that He gave to mankind for us to know. Far from it.

1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

Most of Peter's words ever spoken through the Spirit Who came upon him at Pentecost were never written down, let alone found their way into his writings found in the bible.

The scriptures serve as a profitable and beneficial resource to reveal the Creators to Their creation. But has it revealed all of God, all that He has revealed of Himself to humans? Never. Never has, never will!

B.) My Post 265 says: "God sets apart a soul thru Faith in Christ"
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast

C.) Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God to humanity is unfolding, a constant coming forth of new information, new revelation, new never before revealed truths. This is awesome. I love receiving more understanding of the Creators, His word.

 

[David in NJ]

We know that 'My words' of Jesus were mostly never recorded, let alone ALL contained in a compilation of books known as the bible.

This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

So no Sola Scriptura, for there's more, much much more, that we know for sure. Unless what John testified was wrong.

Again, most of what Jesus taught, what He received from His Father and gave to those who listened to Him, was never documented. (Jhn 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me)

So the scriptures does not contain all of God's words that He gave to mankind for us to know. Far from it.

Most of Peter's words ever spoken through the Spirit Who came upon him at Pentecost were never written down, let alone found their way into his writings found in the bible.

The scriptures serve as a profitable and beneficial resource to reveal the Creators to Their creation. But has it revealed all of God, all that He has revealed of Himself to humans? Never. Never has, never will!

The word of God to humanity is unfolding, a constant coming forth of new information, new revelation, new never before revealed truths. This is awesome. I love receiving more understanding of the Creators, His word.

If you cannot believe what God has already given, how can you be Saved from your sins?

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

 

[David in NJ]

We know that 'My words' of Jesus were mostly never recorded, let alone ALL contained in a compilation of books known as the bible.

This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

So no Sola Scriptura, for there's more, much much more, that we know for sure. Unless what John testified was wrong.

Again, most of what Jesus taught, what He received from His Father and gave to those who listened to Him, was never documented. (Jhn 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me)

So the scriptures does not contain all of God's words that He gave to mankind for us to know. Far from it.

Most of Peter's words ever spoken through the Spirit Who came upon him at Pentecost were never written down, let alone found their way into his writings found in the bible.

The scriptures serve as a profitable and beneficial resource to reveal the Creators to Their creation. But has it revealed all of God, all that He has revealed of Himself to humans? Never. Never has, never will!

The word of God to humanity is unfolding, a constant coming forth of new information, new revelation, new never before revealed truths. This is awesome. I love receiving more understanding of the Creators, His word.

The word of God to humanity is unfolding, a constant coming forth of new information, new revelation, new never before revealed truths.

The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[nedsk]

If you cannot believe what God has already given, how can you be Saved from your sins?

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

And faith without works is dead.

 

[Wick Stick]

You're thinking of a literal temple. No. It is us! We are His Kingdom. Thanks for showing me. This just solidifies that the EoB is canonical.

Barnabas 16:8
But it shall be built in the name of the Lord. Give heed then that
the temple of the Lord may be built gloriously.

Barnabas 16:9
How? Understand ye. By receiving the remission of our sins and
hoping on the Name we became new, created afresh from the beginning.
Wherefore God dwelleth truly in our habitation within us. How? The
word of his faith, the calling of his promise, the wisdom of the
ordinances, the commandments of the teaching, He Himself prophesying
in us, He Himself dwelling in us, opening for us who had been in
bondage unto death the door of the temple, which is the mouth, and
giving us repentance leadeth us to the incorruptible temple.

Barnabas 16:10
For he that desireth to be saved looketh not to the man, but to Him
that dwelleth and speaketh in him, being amazed at this that he has
never at any time heard these words from the mouth of the speaker,
nor himself ever desired to hear them. This is the spiritual temple
built up to the Lord.

Honestly, that's pretty compelling, being just a few lines down in the same chapter.

I remain a little confused on how the fulfillment works. The one who pulled down the former temple is supposed to rebuild it. That makes me think Romans or maybe the Zealots. Obviously neither rebuilt a spiritual temple.

So... in this view, do you think Barnabas is saying that God "pulled down" the former temple? It seems it is He that rebuilds.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Honestly, that's pretty compelling, being just a few lines down in the same chapter.

I remain a little confused on how the fulfillment works. The one who pulled down the former temple is supposed to rebuild it. That makes me think Romans or maybe the Zealots. Obviously neither rebuilt a spiritual temple.

So... in this view, do you think Barnabas is saying that God "pulled down" the former temple? It seems it is He that rebuilds.

Yes, Rome was the first thing I thought of. But I thought of the Vatican. The two legs of iron are Rome and Byzantine Empire with the Roman Catholics and Orthodox church.

Yes, He rebuilds as the Author and Finisher of our faith. Unlike the Old Covenant of laws (the ministry of death) they had to keep with a sin nature, the New Covenant (the ministry of the Spirit) 2 Cor. 3, is produced in us by Jesus. He removes the sin unto death from our nature as told to us in Ezekiel 36. Look here:

33 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will also enable you to dwell in the cities, and the ruins shall be rebuilt. 34 The desolate land shall be tilled instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass by. 35 So they will say, ‘This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden; and the wasted, desolate, and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.’ 36 Then the nations which are left all around you shall know that I, the Lord, have rebuilt the ruined places and planted what was desolate. I, the Lord, have spoken it, and I will do it.”

I wonder if there will be an actual rebuilding of the temple, or if it is still symbolic of us being His handiwork and the places He will inhabit as we abide in Him and He in us.

 

[One 2 question]

If you cannot believe what God has already given, how can you be Saved from your sins?

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying here.

 

[Wick Stick]

I wonder if there will be an actual rebuilding of the temple, or if it is still symbolic of us being His handiwork and the places He will inhabit as we abide in Him and He in us.

The Bible is a little confusing where it comes to the Jewish temple. The histories record the temple(s) as being glorious, and God indwells them and approves them. But some of the prophets and particularly the martyr Stephen seem to say that God never wanted a man-made temple at all.

Barnabas seems to be in the latter camp, for what it's worth.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The Bible is a little confusing where it comes to the Jewish temple. The histories record the temple(s) as being glorious, and God indwells them and approves them. But some of the prophets and particularly the martyr Stephen seem to say that God never wanted a man-made temple at all.

Barnabas seems to be in the latter camp, for what it's worth.

Yes, he did, and that's the truth. That is what our abiding IN Him, and He in us is all about.

Does this help you change your mind and find it canonical? It makes mine stronger that it is.

 

[shepherdsword]

Cherry picking? LMBO. If that's your only rebuttal then we know you have no solid counter argument. I gave you the entire thing.

So your argument is that the flesh profits nothing so when Jesus said MULTIPLE times eat my flesh he said that because the flesh profits nothing? Lol. He said flesh not have faith, not my word and not bread.

There's no need for DNA because I take Jesus at his word. I actually believe him. Apparently you need the son of God to prove himself to you. There isn't any reason for him to use the word flesh, if he didn't mean eat my flesh. AGAIN you are arguing with Jesus not me.

I think you utterly fail at reading comprehension. When Jesus said "eat my flesh" He was speaking symbolicly concerning His death on the cross for the sins of the world. It was that work of His that saved mankind. He wasn't telling people to have some cannibalistic feast on His natural body. When someone remarked "Can this man give us His flesh to eat" Jesus told His disciples that the flesh profits nothing. Now, I know it's hard for you to see the truth through all of the false teaching the RCC has programmed you with but think for a moment...would Jesus institute a ritual that is in actual violation of the Mosiac law? The law He came to fulfil? I am going to leave you with that.