THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

[GracePeace]

[Rom 10:1 KJV] 1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

Paul in Romans 10 was talking about Israel

[Rom 10:12-13 KJV] 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The Gentiles in v12 are the Gentiles that believed the preaching of {eter and the disciples and are in the remnant of Israel

No, the occasion for having written Romans was that the Jews had been expelled from Rome (so the Christian Jews also had to leave), and, now, they were being permitted to return, but they were finding that the Church had been filled with Gentiles, and they had to have and understanding for how this was supposed to work, because the Gentiles did not practice the same way they though they were supposed to practice. Therefore, the topic is the Church, and how Jewish and Gentile believers were to live side-by-side.

 

[GracePeace]

We are talking about why it would be sinful for Peter to eat with Gentiles Numbers says nothing about not eating with Gentiles.......could be a tradition but not in the law

1. The text says Israel will dwell alone and not be numbered with the Gentiles.
2. Therefore, they found fault with both his going to the Gentiles' home, and with eating with them.
3. Peter was told to eat unclean food, and, then, he ate with Gentiles. This is because if the food laws are not observed "carefully", they are not observed at all. There are laws on the plates and utensils, the pots, the stove, the home, etc, that he would have to be careful to follow, which, going to a Gentile's home, he wouldn't have been able to have been careful to follow.

 

[GracePeace]

[Phl 1:27 KJV] 27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

It is the faith of the gospel.....there is only one gospel in this dispensation which is found in Paul's epistles
The gospel preached by Peter and the gospel preached by Paul both centered on faith in Christ

The idea falls apart when we realize Paul corrected Peter's veering from the truth of the Gospel--only one Gospel, and Peter had to submit to it. He wasn't a free agent roaming around preaching his own thing.

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh, so God who is omniscient didn`t realize that fallen men of Israel would not obey. Of course. God is showing that no man, nation, Israel, Gentile, could ever turn to Him without His intervention through Christ.

although what you just wrote is correct . what on earth does that have to do with what i wrote.
I never implied otherwise . Now let us both know and understand something
so as we dont kid and deceive ourselves .
IT WONT Just be gentiles wailing in the lake of fire , THERES gonna be lots of jews too .
ANYONE whether jew or gentile WHO DENIES GOD is gonna roast .
Now you might be thinking , but hold on dear amigo ,
the unbeleiving jews dont DENY GOD . OH YES THEY DO , DENY THE SON YE HAVE DENIED THE FATHER .
GOD gonna get the GLORY and if JESUS DONT get the GLORY then GOD DONT .
ITS JESUS PREACHING TIME to all that has breath . Many jews and many gentiles WILL WAIL
on the day of the LORD . many jews and many gentiles will REJOICE on the day of the LORD .
ITS THOSE Who believed NOT that will wail , and those who BELEIVED shall rejoice with THE KING forever .

 

[rebuilder 454]

So, the 12 disciples were given the revelation of the Body of Christ? Then why was Peter separating himself from the Gentiles? (Gal. 2: 11 16)

These are nit picky points.
Void of the panoramic picture.
Peter would have done the exact same offense had he sided with the rich members, while shunning the lesser wealthy.

Let's look at Paul's deficiencies in his ORDANENCES
Do the women of your church cover their heads , which is only one of Paul's many many ordinances.

When have you last observed a man with shaven hair keeping a vow?..as Paul showed us.
Or men with long hair ,following Paul, above Jesus ?????
hyperpaulines nit pick all the Apostles but Paul...(their co deity.)

...and I would bet, not a single woman In a Paul only church wears a head covering.

The point being, we can lose sight of bible truth by negatively casting erroneous arrows at all but Paul.

Not even Jesus survives the pauline nit picky non issues and false ascribing of the hyperpauline doctrine.

Like I said before, hyper Paulines see the Bible as a trap. And only the paulines are shown the truth that God has ordained.

Only they can see the "other Holy Spirit", that was erroneously inspiring, Peter, John ,James, and Jesus.

Hyper pauline message is "a dangerous trap" in the bible ( written by the erroneous apostles) that only paul has the key to unlock.

It is therefore a FACT that they are spreading the lie of 2 separate entities inspiring the writing of the bible.

That Friends and neighbors is the foundation and cornerstone of a cult.
The hyperpauline doctrine ,and those that cling to it ,are a cult.
The best thing they can do to promote their special deal is to form a bible that only has paul's books in it

 

[rebuilder 454]

The idea falls apart when we realize Paul corrected Peter's veering from the truth of the Gospel--only one Gospel, and Peter had to submit to it. He wasn't a free agent roaming around preaching his own thing.

We used to have a hyper Pauline guy in our men's Bible study.
Almost everybody in the class bought into his deal, as he was trying to come in and convert everybody in their into a hyperpauline. He once made a statement that he thought the words of Paul should be in red ,in the bible, and Jesus words in black.

As with all error, it gets worse and worse as they wonder down the wrong road.

My heart goes out to anyone decieved in that hyperpauline trap.

 

[GracePeace]

We used to have a hyper Pauline guy in our men's Bible study.
Almost everybody in the class bought into his deal, as he was trying to come in and convert everybody in their into a hyperpauline. He once made a statement that he thought the words of Paul should be in red ,in the bible, and Jesus words in black.

As with all error, it gets worse and worse as they wonder down the wrong road.

My heart goes out to anyone decieved in that hyperpauline trap.

I really am confused at how people--eg, @Doug, the author of this thread--can fall into such obvious errors. Some errors are subtle, and more understandable, but you have to go OUT OF YOUR WAY to believe some of this nonsense.

 

[rebuilder 454]

All to do with Israel. What happened to the `New Man,` becoming the `Perfect Man?` (Eph. 2: 15 4: 13)

Ruth is a gentile bride. Boaz the groom.
Ruth gives Naomi (Naomi , the Typology of the covenant Jews) her child to suckle.
The Covenant Jew , without a husband, and the gentile bride TOGETHER, under different dynamics, in the same home, dwelling together.

Naomi without Ruth misses her inheritance.
Ruth without Naomi, never marries boaz.
Ruth is the example of gentile bride, not separating from her Jewish roots.
Naomi is the Jew in oneness with her Gentile companion.

Romans 11 gives much the same picture.
Tge Jew grafted back in.

Hosea is the typology of the Jewish wayward wife.
Separate from the gentile bride.
Two separate brides.
The father with his Covenant Jews.
That wife RE ENTERS through Jesus. ( boaz and Ruth)

I don't know why the church can not see this fact that is in plain sight.

 

[Lizbeth]

All these verses were for Israel

So the Holy Spirit is not for Gentile born again believers? I can hardly believe my ears. You would need to tell the Holy Spirit He made a mistake coming to Gentiles then, lol....tell God that He better take the Holy Spirit back from us.. My friend you are sadly mistaken:

Act 10:44-45

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on ALL them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.


May I ask where you are getting all these ideas from....do you have a particular denomination or ministry that you are affiliated with?

 

[Lizbeth]

So, why did the 12 Apostles ask Jesus, ``Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom (rule) to Israel?` (Acts 1: 6)

Seems they had no idea of the Lord`s future purpose, the Body of Christ.

The apostles were still earthly minded at that point, having not received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit yet. They were concerned about Israel's sovereignty because she was being ruled by pagan Rome, and also they didn't yet understand how God's kingdom is not of this world. Jesus basically told them to leave the nation of Israel to the Lord and just go preach the gospel. Which still is true for us today.

 

[GracePeace]

The apostles were still earthly minded at that point, having not received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit yet. They were concerned about Israel's sovereignty because she was being ruled by pagan Rome, and also they didn't yet understand how God's kingdom is not of this world. Jesus basically told them to leave the nation of Israel to the Lord and just go preach the gospel. Which still is true for us today.

Yup, there were myriad things the Apostles didn't understand before receiving the Spirit--they didn't even know Gentiles could be saved, even though Christ said "Go preach to the nations", bc the Jews who went with Peter were all astonished that the Gentiles received the gift of the Spirit, but, if Peter had known it, he would already have taught the Jews, and they would not have been astonished.

 

[Marvelloustime]

although what you just wrote is correct . what on earth does that have to do with what i wrote.
I never implied otherwise . Now let us both know and understand something
so as we dont kid and deceive ourselves .
IT WONT Just be gentiles wailing in the lake of fire , THERES gonna be lots of jews too .
ANYONE whether jew or gentile WHO DENIES GOD is gonna roast .
Now you might be thinking , but hold on dear amigo ,
the unbeleiving jews dont DENY GOD . OH YES THEY DO , DENY THE SON YE HAVE DENIED THE FATHER .
GOD gonna get the GLORY and if JESUS DONT get the GLORY then GOD DONT .
ITS JESUS PREACHING TIME to all that has breath . Many jews and many gentiles WILL WAIL
on the day of the LORD . many jews and many gentiles will REJOICE on the day of the LORD .
ITS THOSE Who believed NOT that will wail , and those who BELEIVED shall rejoice with THE KING forever .

@amigo de christo

 

[Titus]

This was not the body church this was the church of the believing remnant of Israel which Paul persecuted

John's baptism was old covenant.
Baptism in Acts 2 was in the name of Jesus Christ.

Do you think there are two baptisms to enter the Lords church ?
Acts 2:21, 38
- and it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved
- then Peter said unto them repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins...

These Jews were baptized under the old law by John the Baptist. Mark 1:1-8
Now they have the death, burial and ressurection preached to them by Peter and they are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ into the new covenant of Jesus Christ.
They have called upon the name of the Lord.

Just like Paul said all the saved do,
Romans 10:12-13,
- for there is no difference between jew and gentile for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him

- for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved

Peter, Paul both being saved by the same new testament gospel.

If you doubt Peter did not preach the same gospel...death, burial and ressurection of Christ as Paul preached,
Then notice both apostles teaching.

Acts 2:30-32,36
- therefore being a prophet and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that if the fruit of his loins according to the flesh he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne

- He seeing this before spake of the ressurection of Christ that His soul was not left in hades(death , burial of Jesus) neither His flesh did see corruption
- this Jesus hath God raised up whereof we are all witnesses

- therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God hath made Jesus whom ye have crucified both Lord and Saviour

Peter preached ONE gospel.
Paul preached ONE gospel.
Both preached the same gospel.

1Corinthians 15:1-4,
- brethren I declare unto you the gospel...
- for I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received that Christ  died for our sins according to the scriptures
- and that He was buried  and that He  rose again the third day according to the scriptures

Same gospel, same calling, same baptism in the new testament.

Acts 19:1-7,
- Paul said to them have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed
- and they said unto him we have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Spirit
- and he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized, and the said Unto John's baptism

- then Paul said John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance saying unto the people that they should believe on Him who should come after him, that is on Christ Jesus
- When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus

Old testament baptism, John's
New testament baptism in Jesus' name

ONE, body(church), ONE faith(gospel), ONE baptism

Ephesians 3:6, - that the gentiles should be fellow heirs of the same body(jew and gentile in the same church)

Ephesians 4:4-5 ,
- there is ONE body/church, and ONE Spirit even as ye are called in ONE hope of your  calling

- ONE Lord, ONE faith(gospel), ONE baptism(in the name of the Lord)

1Corinthians 12:13,
- for by ONE Spirit were we all baptized into ONE body/church, whether we be jew or gentile whether we be bond or free and have all made to drink into ONE Spirit

 

[GracePeace]

@Doug

@Doug Another user observed...

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

There is only one faith, not two--which explains how Paul could correct Peter, who was not walking in step with "the truth of the Gospel", and brought him back in line with that one faith. They were both subject to the one Gospel, the one faith.

If "faith comes by hearing God's Word", and there is only "one faith", that would mean that there is only one "Word of God" that people hear--ie, "one Gospel", God's testimony about His Son (1 Jn 5).

 

[GracePeace]

You cant say that abiding in Christ is the same however because we are secure in our salvation

[Jhn 15:6 KJV] 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.

They had no such assurance

I'm not sure why you would see "Paul's Gospel" would differ--he also warns that those who do not persist in faith can be cut off (Ro 11:17-22).

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I'm not sure why you would see "Paul's Gospel" would differ--he also warns that those who do not persist in faith can be cut off (Ro 11:17-22).

They claim Paul taught OSAS but he actually did not.