THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

[Doug]

Would you say only those who heard and believed "Paul's" Gospel were "the body of Christ", and were "in Christ"?

Only those who believe Paul's gospel are in the body of Christ but arent the only ones in Christ

 

[amigo de christo]

Only those who believe Paul's gospel are in the body of Christ but arent the only ones in Christ

Pauls gospel . IT wasnt any different than peters , jude , james , john , OR CHRIST .
THEY ALL preached the very one and self same gospel .
SO perhaps your statement should read
ONLY THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN THE GOSPEL are the BODY of CHRIST and all else are STILL IN DARKNESS , bondage and death .

 

[Lizbeth]

Notice the word AND. That reveals two groups.

1. For in Christ. (Gal. 6: 15) Those in the Body of Christ.
2. Israel of God. (Gal. 6: 16) Those of the physical nation of Israel who turned to God.

....and all who are grafted in together with her. The Israel of God is a spiritual nation and a spiritual commonwealth because it includes the Gentile believers from other nations.

Eph 2:12-14

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

 

[Doug]

6a. The reality of the "one new man" is clearly supposed to be active with Peter's Gospel, because God showed him he was not to call any man unclean (Acts 10), and that it was, therefore, fine for him to go to their home and eat with them; and this message, once he learned it by the vision, he preached to his Jewish brothers, and they accepted it, "...saying, 'Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.'” How was there not "one new man" in Peter's Gospel, then?
6b. Didn't Paul call Peter out on his veering from this "one new man" reality in Galatians 2--and didn't Peter submit to that correction?

Showing Peter that the Gentiles were not to be considered unclean is not the same as being one new man
Peter never preached that Jew and Gentile were one new man that was only revealed thru Paul
Peter did eat with the Gentiles but was afraid of the circumcision

 

[Doug]

7. What "problem" are you trying to "solve" when you say Peter and Paul preach different Gospels that yield different results?

Just showing that there is more than one gospel and we need to know what we need to believe
Showing that Paul was given a new dispensation and in Paul we find our teaching and instruction

 

[Doug]

OK Thanks for the clarification.
If they are "in Christ", are they not also the body of Christ?

Both the remnant and the body are in Christ

 

[Lizbeth]

Oops : the REASON God has not cast off His people is because He has preserved a remnant. Why did you leave that part out?

Notice also He says "His people He foreknew" : those He foreknew He predestined, and called and justified. The unbelieving Jews are not called or justified, so they are not in "foreknown" Paul refers to, and aren't His people.

"All Israel will be saved" is true, and God's Word has not failed, but not all Israel is the Israel of that prophecy.

I have been confused about this verse for a long time, but I think this is right sister, nail on the head.........and I believe the fullness of the Gentiles being spoken about must refer to the Gentiles becoming saved and established in the gospel............so that then they could show mercy to Israel through the preaching of the gospel to them......as it says here:

Rom 11:30

For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!


I'm so grateful to have this sorted out and resolved!

 

[Doug]

Well, I hold that they preached the Gospel, and it's just one Gospel.
I don't want people confused by your nonsense.

Would you say that one can be saved by ONLY believing Jesus is the Son of God and nothing else

 

[Lizbeth]

And therein lies the KEY sister .
Many are interpreting revelation dead wrong
and their interpretation SURE IS contradicting a whole lot of other scrips .
But TRUTH never contradicts TRUTH .
many have learned things with and from men who had their hopes in the wrong kingdom all along .
THE EARTHERN ONE . they cannot see the SPIRITUAL .
They know not nor understand it is now ONE BODY , ONE WIFE
TWO folds made ONE IN CHRIST . to those who do BELIEVE IN HIM .
THERE Is only ONE TRUE ISRAEL of GOD , but not all of israel is even of THIS ISRAEL .
There is one true JERUSALEM above , wherein the TEMPLE
was not made after the pattern of the TRUE , BUT IS THE TRUE ITSELF . GOD and THE LAMB IS THIS TEMPLE
and THIS CITY JERUSALEM , MOTHER TO THE BELEIVERS is ABOVE .
The mount ZION of GOD is above . For ye have come unto MOUNT ZION the heavenly Jersualem .
The body of , bride of , people of GOD and of CHRIST , ARE THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN HE WHOM GOD DID SEND .
THAT be JESUS the CHRIST . oh its real simple sister , but men have made much confusion into what was so simple .

Amen brother, and I agree it is simple. But like the old saying goes, everything is easy when you know how. The problem is that if for any reason a wrong idea gets lodged into our mind, it literally blinds us to the truth that is written clearly in black and white. So therein lies the battle.....we need to be willing to lay our preconceptions on the altar, set them aside to be taught by the Lord, to have our minds renewed on any given subject.

 

[Doug]

. What, exactly, was Peter's Gospel, from which we can learn--and what is an example of what we can garner from "his" Gospel--and how did it differ from Paul's?

[Act 10:43 KJV] 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Peter preached salvation thru his name

Paul also preached his death resurrection and the blood

 

[Doug]

. Paul went to the Synagogue and preached his Gospel to Jews, not Peter's, many times, "as was his custom" (Acts 17:2).

Paul preached the gospel to both Jew and Gentile

as far as Acts 17.......................[Act 17:2-3 KJV] 2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Paul preached that Jesus is Christ and reasoned his death and resurrection was in the prophets

Paul did not preach his gospel where they already believed on Christ.....................[Rom 15:20 KJV] 20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

 

[Doug]

Why would Paul preach his Gospel, which you insist was for uncircumcised only, to the circumcised? Wasn't he violating your supposed protocol?

Paul preached to Jew and Gentile

 

[Doug]

I never said God was done with Israel;

I didnt say you did but others do........I was just reiterating my points

 

[Doug]

Israel is called "the church in the wilderness" brother. And the church is called "the Israel of God."

Israel was called that when the congregation was in the wilderness but during Christ's earthly ministry they are called just the church or Paul called it the church of God
There are no others verses that mention the Israel of God so to say it is the church is not supported

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

what is it you believe that others need to know

The other Apostles were just as important as Paul who did not have some special gospel the others didn't have.

They all taught the Doctrine of Christ and they all wrote what Jesus told them to write!

 

[GracePeace]

I dont think Paul was in the remnant......when Christ came in his earthly ministry Israel had to believe on his name that he was Christ, the Son of God......Paul rejected this and persecuted those who did and was not in the believing remnant
When Paul was converted, he preached that Christ was the Son of God. to believers in the remnant but with Paul Jesus was forming a new dispensation and the body of Christ

How could Paul not be part of the "remnant of Israel"? Do you know what "remnant of Israel" means? It refers to the small part of Israel that is saved and not lost. Paul refers to this in Romans 11--just as in the days of Elijah, God preserved for Himself 7000 who had not bowed the knee to Baal, so, also, there is a remnant of Israel God is preserving at this time. Paul is definitely an Israelite, and he's definitely part of the remnant that is preserved and not lost, so... what is the issue?

 

[GracePeace]

Only those who believe Paul's gospel are in the body of Christ but arent the only ones in Christ

So, would you deny that the ones who you say are "in Christ", but not "Christ's body", share in Christ's death and resurrection?

 

[GracePeace]

Showing Peter that the Gentiles were not to be considered unclean is not the same as being one new man
Peter never preached that Jew and Gentile were one new man that was only revealed thru Paul
Peter did eat with the Gentiles but was afraid of the circumcision

The two are one and the same doctrine : "come together, it's not a sin anymore, Peter"; "there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile...".
Again, Paul rebuked Peter for not walking in accordance with THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL in Galatians 2... so, WHICH Gospel was Paul bringing Peter in line with? Peter's Gospel or Paul's Gospel? Why did they have the same Gospel if they don't have the same Gospel? LOL!

 

[GracePeace]

Would you say that one can be saved by ONLY believing Jesus is the Son of God and nothing else

Peter didn't just preach Jesus was God's Son : Peter preached that Jesus was a miracle-worker, and was the Messiah they had been waiting for, but that they had crucified Him, but that God had raised Christ from the dead, and sat Him at God's right hand, and that they can be forgiven of their sins if they repent and receive water baptism, and they will receive the gift of the Spirit.

Granted, Paul is far more detailed in his account of what occurs for those who believe in Jesus, but this is just his gift--Jesus says if a scribe or a lawyer is converted they bring forth from their treasure box both new and old--but it's the same message.

Plus, Peter was preaching to a crowd on literally the same day he received the Spirit, whereas Paul had had years of experience with Jewish objections by the time he wrote (this is a letter people can read vs a sermon) Romans. Completely different contexts.

 

[GracePeace]

[Act 10:43 KJV] 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Peter preached salvation thru his name

Paul also preached his death resurrection and the blood

Both Peter (Acts 2:21) and Paul (Romans 10:13) preached salvation through calling on the Name of the LORD, citing literally the same verse of Scripture. Peter preached Christ's death and resurrection, as well--and "the blood" was preached when Peter references his crowd's having crucified God's Son.