The Commitments of Men to Christ

[Christina]

(goldy;24107)
Then how do you prove to your neighbor that Christ is in you? He IS in you, right Jag? By the way, your bible verse never said you are saved by faith ALONE.........emphasis on ALONE. It's faith PLUS works. It's not either/or, it's both/and.
Why on earth do I care what my neighbor thinks? We are love our neighbor as ourself God knows whats in our hearts We are to live by example if my neighbor doesnt understand that and want to know about the Lord I do not have to prove anything to him. Im am saying that a christian by definination does good works. To speard the word, to love thy neighbor, follow in Christ's example If you do not do these things are you a Christian ??? I do not see how you can be a christian have faith know you are saved by grace of God and not have works. Works isnt proving anything. Works are speading the good news of salvation through Christ, loving your neighbor,showing kindness and charity ect.Not as show but with a real hearts desire.

 

[Pariah]

Hi goldy,
Does this mean someone who is saved by God's grace through faith is automatically assured salvation? After all, if you are truly saved through grace, you should never sin, right?
As in bought with a price? Yes to the first question.We are His and as such are called to live as His by not sowing to the flesh. If you do, you defile the temple of God which is your body and reap corruption, and God shall deal with sons of disobedience as partakers of His wrath as the prodigal son and the foolish virgins.We are under grace as scriptures are there to let us know if we are sinning and to bring it to the Lord for forgiveness as well as help in not sinning again, but it is by the grace of God, go I, as I trust Jesus as My Good Shepherd to guide me and help me live as His... until that day when He brings me Home where I shall be made perfect and never sin nor be seperated from God again.Psalm 100: 3Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.1 John 3: 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.Jude 1: 24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
By the way, the Roman Catholic Church has NEVER, EVER claimed that we are saved simply by our works. We can't just pull ourselves up to Heaven by what we do.......that's a heresy.
Then how does that not apply to sacraments and penance in shortening your stay in purgatory? Isn't that claiming credit in getting yourselves into Heaven by what you do?

 

[Pariah]

Then how do you prove to your neighbor that Christ is in you? He IS in you, right Jag? By the way, your bible verse never said you are saved by faith ALONE.........emphasis on ALONE. It's faith PLUS works. It's not either/or, it's both/and.
Hi goldy!You did not read my "essay" to you!

I'll shorten it just for you, dear sweet adorable, but yet wayward sister of mine.Incidentally, James was speaking of the unloving treatment of the poor in that they were "excersizing" their faith by telling the poor to be warmed and to be filled as if by saying it, God will take care of them, and yet how does it profit the poor? How does it save them when they are starving and naked to the elements? Thus when the poor see them with the goods collected and yet unwilling to meet their needs, in the eyes of the poor, the faith of the "faithsayers" was dead since they were unwilling to part with their goods to meet the needs of the poor... and trust God to provide for them as well as the poor for tomorrow's needs. It is like a doctor at a free clinic exercisizing their faith by turning away treating the poor by saying, "Be healed... and be whole" So James wasn't about salvation in regards to the faith that saves. He was referring to the poor in regards to the faith issued by the faithsayers in saving the poor. It was an abuse of faith as well as lack of love for thy neighbor since they were also treating the rich with favoritism over the poor during service as well.But yes, we are to love one another as Christ loved us, but no, James wasn't about the faith of salvation, but issuing faith to get out of helping the poor. We are saved by grace that it may be through faith. That is His glory.

 

[Pariah]

Hi Jag!I agree God shall judge as in condemn.But we are to judge as in correct.1 Corinthians 5: 11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.Jesus taught excommunication.Matthew 18: 14Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.It is done in the hopes that they may repent and return to be accepted back into the assembly.We should not judge as in condemn, but we are called to judge as in to correct.

 

[Jordan]

(Pariah;24138)
Hi Jag!I agree God shall judge as in condemn.But we are to judge as in correct.1 Corinthians 5: 11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.Jesus taught excommunication.Matthew 18: 14Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.It is done in the hopes that they may repent and return to be accepted back into the assembly.We should not judge as in condemn, but we are called to judge as in to correct.
Who are we to condemn anyone? Are we not equal with everybody elses since we all sin? I agree with you Pariah 100% that we are to judge to correct each other in hope they may repent. On another note, Matthew 18 may be hard to do if one has no witnesses, or go to church...since churches these days are filled with man-made doctrines.John 7:24 - Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[Shan Missions]

Must live in good moral life?Is believing Jesus alone good enough for eternal life in heaven?Do we need to live the life of true Christian so that we may enter the kingdom of God?Matthew 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Must do the will of the Father? Matthew 5:20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. Must be righteous? Matthew 18:3 And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.Must be like little children? Matthew 25:34-36 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' Must feed the hungry and thirsty, invite stranger, clothe the naked, look after the sick, visit prisoner?Acts 14:21-22 They preached the good news in that city and won a large number of disciples. Then they returned to Lystra, Iconium and Antioch, strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. "We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God," they said.Must go through hardship? 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.Must have good moral characters? Galatians 5:19-21 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[lastsecman]

(Pariah;24044)
John 7: 18He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.How can the commitments of men not represent the glory of men?
My opinion...You give all the glory to Christ. Knowing that it is not your weak and sinful self who accomplished the task, but Christ's Spirit that is in you which strengthened you to accomplish the task.'Examine your knowledge, if you have any jealousy, selfishness, or bitterness within you, then glory not in your knowledge. For such knowlege is worldly, is demonic.'I have bitterness

 

[goldy]

(Unorthodox Christian;24111)
Ok, so an atheist who does godly works shows evidence that god is not real?Silly men who follow creeds of MEN, dogmas of MEN :naughty:
Hey, you stole my line!! You just broke one of the 10 commandments.........sinnerAnyhoo, I'm not going to sit here and judge the heart of an atheist. Only God does that, and thank God for that. Anyone.....Christian, Muslim, atheist, etc. can do good works at times. I don't believe that just doing good works will get me to heaven.......that's a heresy. But I also don't believe that just believing that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior will automatically get me a free pass to heaven. Do you?And regarding creeds of men and dogmas of men, I follow the creeds that have been passed down from the very apostles of Jesus Christ and Peter, the rock on which Christ established His Church. Why wouldn't I follow those creeds and dogmas?

 

[goldy]

(Pariah;24137)
Hi goldy!You did not read my "essay" to you!

I'll shorten it just for you, dear sweet adorable, but yet wayward sister of mine.Incidentally, James was speaking of the unloving treatment of the poor in that they were "excersizing" their faith by telling the poor to be warmed and to be filled as if by saying it, God will take care of them, and yet how does it profit the poor? How does it save them when they are starving and naked to the elements? Thus when the poor see them with the goods collected and yet unwilling to meet their needs, in the eyes of the poor, the faith of the "faithsayers" was dead since they were unwilling to part with their goods to meet the needs of the poor... and trust God to provide for them as well as the poor for tomorrow's needs. It is like a doctor at a free clinic exercisizing their faith by turning away treating the poor by saying, "Be healed... and be whole" So James wasn't about salvation in regards to the faith that saves. He was referring to the poor in regards to the faith issued by the faithsayers in saving the poor. It was an abuse of faith as well as lack of love for thy neighbor since they were also treating the rich with favoritism over the poor during service as well.But yes, we are to love one another as Christ loved us, but no, James wasn't about the faith of salvation, but issuing faith to get out of helping the poor. We are saved by grace that it may be through faith. That is His glory.
Thanks Pariah, but I simply don't agree with your private, fallible, interpretation of these scripture verses. By the way, I'm not your sister......I'm your brother.

 

[goldy]

(kriss;24117)
Why on earth do I care what my neighbor thinks? We are love our neighbor as ourself God knows whats in our hearts We are to live by example if my neighbor doesnt understand that and want to know about the Lord I do not have to prove anything to him. Im am saying that a christian by definination does good works. To speard the word, to love thy neighbor, follow in Christ's example If you do not do these things are you a Christian ??? I do not see how you can be a christian have faith know you are saved by grace of God and not have works. Works isnt proving anything. Works are speading the good news of salvation through Christ, loving your neighbor,showing kindness and charity ect.Not as show but with a real hearts desire.
Kriss, you seem upset. Why? I don't care about what my neighbor thinks either. Do you think I care? I agree, to an extent, that one who is truly a Christian will also do good. But we have this little thing called a fallen sinful nature. St. Paul talks about how he does the things he doesn't want to do in scripture.......he's referring to sin. All I'm saying is that to simply believe and accept Christ as your Lord and Savior doesn't automatically land you a spot in Heaven. Would you agree? There is a Catholic song called, "They'll know we are Christians by our love". So true......so trueWe have to give it all to Christ, everyday. ALL OF IT.

 

[Pariah]

Hi Jag,
Pariah 100% that we are to judge to correct each other in hope they may repent. On another note, Matthew 18 may be hard to do if one has no witnesses, or go to church...since churches these days are filled with man-made doctrines.
True. Haven't seen the practise of excommunication for the purpose of seeing that believer repent so that he or she may be found abiding in Him at all these days. Keeping members and preach from the pulpit and hope they get the message has been the practise these days... while they keep practising those things that cause the sheep to scatter.... like us.

 

[Pariah]

Goldy!You are my brother?! Sorry. I made the same boo boo as Unorthodox Christian. Well. Sort of. OC thought kriss was a brother. I thought you were my sister. Okay. Correction made.As far as my interpretation of James, that is what James was about.You cannot deny that the letter was written to address the church in how they were mistreating the poor. They spoke of how they favored the rich, and they spoke of how they issued their faith towards the poor in bidding them farewells just to get out of feeding them and clothing them. The fact that it is what James was talking about goes from faith without works as dead to showing that faith ( of God's Providence) by that works in feeding the poor and clothing them with the things they had collected.That is what is meant about how can faith "save" him... in the same voice it is written, how can faith "profit" him. It's there. You are just allowing others' private, fallible, interpretation of these scripture verses to govern your religious beliefs without actually reading the book of James in content in regards to faith without works in saving him which the him was referring to the poor.... not of the faithsayer.Just like you are using someone else's private interpretation of the scriptures to support catholicism by ignoring other scriptures that surrounded that verse in explaining that verse and even elsewhere on the topic of that verse the RCC are using to void faith in Christ as being able and to place the obtaining of righteousness in your hands by doing the sacraments of catholicism. That is what the RCC is doing, but you are too close to it to take a step back and see the whys and what fors of your religion to ask the Lord for discernment by the scriptures to depart from it because its works deny Him as being able and thus voiding faith. All you are going to thrive on is what you have been taught by the Church in their use of the scriptures instead of allowing the Lord to teach you all over again the simplicity of the Gospel and what it means to rest in Him that you are His by the scriptures whcih would have more to support that relationship with Jesus than it does in supporting your relationship with the Church.Keeping the faith is the good fight. Not keeping attendance of the "Church" or being a member of it and doing the sacraments within to assure salvation. I know that to accet His calling you out would mean to accept that you had been "ripped" off all these years and served a lie from all your love for the Lord, but it isn't about how much we love the Lord but why. He first loved us. If we allow our works to blind us to take pride in our works of what we did for Him out of love for Him, we are not submitting to His righteousness which is of God by faith. THAT is the only way you can obtain that righteousness when you believeth on Jesus for it is He that justfieth you for beleiving in Him. That is why it is considered righteousness towards Abraham simply because he believed God. The RCC in its practises and words are practically saying, we believe You are the Saviour, but we don't trust You enough to NOT do something to earn that rightesousness. And yet no flesh shall glory in His Presence. Repent, goldy.

 

[Pariah]

Hi Shan Missions,
Must live in good moral life?Is believing Jesus alone good enough for eternal life in heaven?Do we need to live the life of true Christian so that we may enter the kingdom of God?
We can't save ourselves thus we turn to Jesus for salvation.We ca't live as His thus we turn to Jesus to enable us.Both are done by faith in our new relationship with God made possible through Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Know Him, you would know God.He can lose nothing.John 6: 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day....44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.But as there are sheeps that do not hear His voice nor follow Him whethor it be by dead works that deny Him religiously or living in sin and reaping corruption, those sheeps are of another fold and after judgment falls on the House of God to correct them, then He will gather them and then they will hear His voice and follow Him as their Shepherd, albeit, they lost out of their first inheritance as Esau did in giving up his brithright of receiving blessings from Isaac for a meal and as the prodigal son gave up his inheritance for wild living. There will be such a loss, that God will have to wipe the tears from their eyes to get them passed it as stated in Revelation.John 10: 14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. It is how we build on tha relationship of faith and trust with the Lord Jesus that decides whethor we trusted Him to save us and help us live as His by the grace of God, or we resorted to our own powers or sinful lifestyles and thus not resting in Hin nor calling on Him to deliever us from our sins so that we should no longer live in them since we have been bought with a price.1 Corinthians 3: 10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.... 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.... 21Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.Thus we see why they were left behind because they did not heed His sayings thus were not following His voice to discern the things of the world that is not of faith so as to be found abiding in Him..Matthew 7: 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. So the good works we do... is also by faith in Our Enabler to help us do them thus no one shall glory in the works that we do since we are the workmanship of His hands.Psalm 100: 3Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.Thus those that glory ... shall indeed glory in the Lord. Our hope for salvation and for living as His is on Jesus, not on us, thus it is by the grace of God and by faith in Jesus. Amen.

 

[goldy]

(Pariah;24199)
Goldy!You are my brother?! Sorry. I made the same boo boo as Unorthodox Christian. Well. Sort of. OC thought kriss was a brother. I thought you were my sister. Okay. Correction made.As far as my interpretation of James, that is what James was about.You cannot deny that the letter was written to address the church in how they were mistreating the poor. They spoke of how they favored the rich, and they spoke of how they issued their faith towards the poor in bidding them farewells just to get out of feeding them and clothing them. The fact that it is what James was talking about goes from faith without works as dead to showing that faith ( of God's Providence) by that works in feeding the poor and clothing them with the things they had collected.That is what is meant about how can faith "save" him... in the same voice it is written, how can faith "profit" him. It's there. You are just allowing others' private, fallible, interpretation of these scripture verses to govern your religious beliefs without actually reading the book of James in content in regards to faith without works in saving him which the him was referring to the poor.... not of the faithsayer.Just like you are using someone else's private interpretation of the scriptures to support catholicism by ignoring other scriptures that surrounded that verse in explaining that verse and even elsewhere on the topic of that verse the RCC are using to void faith in Christ as being able and to place the obtaining of righteousness in your hands by doing the sacraments of catholicism. That is what the RCC is doing, but you are too close to it to take a step back and see the whys and what fors of your religion to ask the Lord for discernment by the scriptures to depart from it because its works deny Him as being able and thus voiding faith. All you are going to thrive on is what you have been taught by the Church in their use of the scriptures instead of allowing the Lord to teach you all over again the simplicity of the Gospel and what it means to rest in Him that you are His by the scriptures whcih would have more to support that relationship with Jesus than it does in supporting your relationship with the Church.Keeping the faith is the good fight. Not keeping attendance of the "Church" or being a member of it and doing the sacraments within to assure salvation. I know that to accet His calling you out would mean to accept that you had been "ripped" off all these years and served a lie from all your love for the Lord, but it isn't about how much we love the Lord but why. He first loved us. If we allow our works to blind us to take pride in our works of what we did for Him out of love for Him, we are not submitting to His righteousness which is of God by faith. THAT is the only way you can obtain that righteousness when you believeth on Jesus for it is He that justfieth you for beleiving in Him. That is why it is considered righteousness towards Abraham simply because he believed God. The RCC in its practises and words are practically saying, we believe You are the Saviour, but we don't trust You enough to NOT do something to earn that rightesousness. And yet no flesh shall glory in His Presence. Repent, goldy.
Pariah, as far as mistaking me for your sister, no sweat Please read below very slowly and prayerfully.I'm going to ask you a simple question, and I ask for a simple answer ( I could probably start a whole new thread with this, but I'll do it here): Why should I believe your interpretation of scripture over the interpretation of the Catholic Church? Do you have some spiritual "gift" with regard to discernment that a 2000 year old church doesn't have? I'm assuming you're Protestant, so I ask that you remember this line: There are currently over 33,000 Protestant interpretations of scripture (denominations). Again, I think I'll stick with the RCC's interpretation over a single person's any day.I'm also going to challenge you on something since you told me to repent.......I challenge you to read Scott Hahn's book: "Rome Sweet Home". Scott Hahn is a former Presbyterian minister who converted to the Catholic Church. He is extremely well-versed in scripture, and is now a professor of theology at Franciscan University (I think). This is not to try to "convert" you. But the fact of the matter is, you seem to have been fed a lot of crap regarding the Catholic Church that simply isn't true (i.e., the sacraments, the papacy, Eucharist, etc.).

 

[Unorthodox Christian]

If you seek to go by a name such a Catholic, Pentecostal, Lutheran, or any denominational name or sect, You are the equivalent of the Men who wanted to name themselves before God. Making themselves their Own. In the epistles to the Corinthians IT'S EXACTLY WHAT PAUL SPOKE AGAINST! WE ARE NOT THE CHURCH OF CEPHAS(PETER), OR PAUL, OR APOLLOS OR DENOMINATION OF CHRIST, BUT ONE CHURCH! DO NOT CAUSE DIVISION!

 

[goldy]

(Unorthodox Christian;24230)
If you seek to go by a name such a Catholic, Pentecostal, Lutheran, or any denominational name or sect, You are the equivalent of the Men who wanted to name themselves before God. Making themselves their Own. In the epistles to the Corinthians IT'S EXACTLY WHAT PAUL SPOKE AGAINST! WE ARE NOT THE CHURCH OF CEPHAS(PETER), OR PAUL, OR APOLLOS OR DENOMINATION OF CHRIST, BUT ONE CHURCH! DO NOT CAUSE DIVISION!
Oh wow, this post is laughable!!1. Look bro, or sweetie (don't know your gender), do you realize that we WERE one before the first Orthodox schism and then the Protestant Reformation? You're saying don't cause division......are you kidding me??? The Catholic Church existed LONG before any Protestant church (over 1500 years). They just didn't call it the Catholic Church, it was the EARLY Church. But guess what: those people believed in the Eucharist, Reconciliation, infant baptism, the papacy, etc. Hmmmm, sort of sounds like what Roman Catholics are doing in 2007!! If you want to blame people for division, take that up with Luther, Calvin, and the rest of the Reformers 500 years ago.2. From a practical standpoint, if all of us ARE one church, wouldn't we all agree on much more and be much more united? About the only thing ALL Christians can agree on is that there is a God of some sort, namely Jesus Christ.

 

[Unorthodox Christian]

Yeah AND i GUESS Jesus was Baptised as a BABY? Eucharist was in the morning, WHEN SUPPER is at night when he broke the Bread?!

 

[Pariah]

goldy,
Why should I believe your interpretation of scripture over the interpretation of the Catholic Church? Do you have some spiritual "gift" with regard to discernment that a 2000 year old church doesn't have?
As with anyone or any church, you are responsible for taking it to the Lord in prayer for guidance and confirmation as well as discernment and wisdom in applying the scriptures as well as understanding His Words. If you have a personal relationship with the Lord where you can call God, Father, then just listening to me would be just as wrong as just listening to your Church. No one is to be between you and Him. I'm just trying to point you to go past the Church, past the priest, past Mary, and straight to Jesus Christ. As much as the Church claims they are bringing people to Christ, they are putting alot of means and steps to get there as if invitations were given by Jesus to go there first instead of straight to Himself. Scriptures testifies of Jesus. The Holy Spirit testifies of Jesus. By the grace of God, I testify of Jesus. But the Roman Catholic Church testifies of itself and the means therein obtainable only through the Church thus bears false witness.So like... a church can go astray... that is why Jesus warned of false prophets. To think the Church is untouchable, you would have read of it in Revelation in the letters to the seven churches, but no. There is no "THE CHURCH". And all the instructions written was in regards to their relationship to the Lord. Thus a church can go astray.. just as well as a believer can go astray. A church can become corrupted as well as a believer can. So where does the Light comes from in exposing the works of darkness? Jesus Christ. He has to do it and by the scriptures IF you take a step back and ask Him to show you why He wants you to leave. That is a personal relationship in progress when you relate to Jesus DIRECTLY so He would not say.. I knew ye not... because you were too busy climbing up another way... thus a worker of iniquity. If we agree that Jesus shall judge, I would think you would heed His sayings and not the Church that Jesus will judge also.
But the fact of the matter is, you seem to have been fed a lot of crap regarding the Catholic Church that simply isn't true (i.e., the sacraments, the papacy, Eucharist, etc.).
The catechism pretty much confirms it. As far as the challenge go, I am familiar with Catholics double talk for the sake of ecumenicalism. The fact that the Roman Catholic Church has an accord of peace and understanding with other religions' of the world in that it doesn't bother you in the slightest that scriptures are not the guide in the RCC.2 Corinthians 6: 14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.Repent, goldy. Leave the RCC. Have that personal relationship with Jesus based on trust in Him being the Saviour and in Him as the Good Shepherd in helping you live as His by faith alone... for then you will know that the good works you do is because of Him by the grace of God and not for salvation. If for salvation, then you don't know Him yet nor trust Him as Your Saviour. You just believe in Him, but labour in unbelief.

 

[Unorthodox Christian]

Amen Pariah!

 

[Jordan]

Amen Pariah! x 2JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.