The concept of predestination

[TonyChanYT]

Isaiah 14:

24 The LORD Almighty has sworn, “Surely, as I have planned, so it will be, and as I have purposed, so it will happen.

Romans 8:

29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

First and foremost, predestination is associated with God's foreknowledge.

Strong's 4309: To foreordain, predetermine, mark out beforehand. From pro and horizo; to limit in advance, i.e. predetermine.

HELPS Word-studies

4309 proorízō (from 4253 /pró, "before" and 3724 /horízō, "establish boundaries, limits") – properly, pre-horizon, pre-determine limits (boundaries) predestine.

G4309 occurs 6 times in the NT.

Acts 4:

27 for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.

Secondly, predestination is God's plans and decrees.

1 Corinthians 2:

7 But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed [G4309] before the ages for our glory.

How do you know who is predestined?

Only God knows.

How do you know if you are predestined?

The Paraclete will dwell in you.

Ephesians 1:

5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will

Predestination is related to God's foreknowledge and his sovereign will/plan over all people according to God's hidden wisdom. From my own personal experience, even years before I called myself a Christian, I believed that he was looking after me even though I didn't know him.

Now, does God predestine someone to hell?

I do not find that kind of wording in the Bible, that God predestines some to hell. However, we do have Jude 1:

4 Certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God.

2 Peter 2:

3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

The word for "condemnation" is G2917. It does not always refer to eternal condemnation.

There are two issues: (1) predestine someone to (2) eternal death. The lexical evidence is not that strong when I consider both issues simultaneously.

Some Calvinists overloaded the concept of double predestination by overgeneralizing some bible verses. When it comes to doctrines, it is better to stick closely to the wording in the Scripture according to the precision of the First-Order Logic.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Isaiah 14:


Romans 8:


First and foremost, predestination is associated with God's foreknowledge.

Strong's 4309: To foreordain, predetermine, mark out beforehand. From pro and horizo; to limit in advance, i.e. predetermine.

HELPS Word-studies


G4309 occurs 6 times in the NT.

Acts 4:


Secondly, predestination is God's plans and decrees.

1 Corinthians 2:


How do you know who is predestined?

Only God knows.

How do you know if you are predestined?

The Paraclete will dwell in you.

Ephesians 1:


Predestination is related to God's foreknowledge and his sovereign will/plan over all people according to God's hidden wisdom. From my own personal experience, even years before I called myself a Christian, I believed that he was looking after me even though I didn't know him.

Now, does God predestine someone to hell?

I do not find that kind of wording in the Bible, that God predestines some to hell. However, we do have Jude 1:


2 Peter 2:


The word for "condemnation" is G2917. It does not always refer to eternal condemnation.

There are two issues: (1) predestine someone to (2) eternal death. The lexical evidence is not that strong when I consider both issues simultaneously.

Some Calvinists overloaded the concept of double predestination by overgeneralizing some bible verses. When it comes to doctrines, it is better to stick closely to the wording in the Scripture according to the precision of the First-Order Logic.

Though I call myself a Calvinist of sorts, I agree with points you seem to be making here.

God does not predestine people to Hell. He foreknows the result of human failure in the matter of producing good children, and knows who, being born, will follow the path of failure. So God indulges mankind in their quest for independence from Him and from the consequent condemnation. He does not force them into choosing independence from Himself! He desires that *all* be saved, or at least come to the knowledge of the truth of Salvation.

One of my best friends in the world is my older brother. We have a close spiritual kinship. But on this matter we cannot talk. He abhors Calvinism even when he tries to talk kindly about it. It ends up in an angry feud. Calvinism tends to remove any sense of human freedom which I would agree is a repulsive thought. I don't at all agree with Fatalism.

So there are some subjects where I wish to maintain good relations with friends and brothers, and cannot discuss with them what divides us. There is a brother here who I've come to respect who I don't wish to discuss Amil vs Premil because it is too emotional. I prefer the friendship and the brotherhood over the discussion, unless of course God changes our hearts to be softer and kinder. That does not happen instantly!

 

[TonyChanYT]

I prefer the friendship and the brotherhood over the discussion

That's wise, brother, because you may see him in heaven

I try to listen to the other person's point of view objectively and then put a weight on it, instead of rejecting their view outright. When meaningful communication is not possible, i.e., when they do not understand what I am saying, let the guy have his last word and don't follow up.

Romans 12:18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

 

[Randy Kluth]

That's wise, brother, because you may see him in heaven

I try to listen to the other person's point of view objectively and then put a weight on it, instead of rejecting their view outright. When meaningful communication is not possible, i.e., when they do not understand what I am saying, let the guy have his last word and don't follow up.

Romans 12:18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

You must be my twin brother!

 

[Bob Estey]

Isaiah 14:


Romans 8:


First and foremost, predestination is associated with God's foreknowledge.

Strong's 4309: To foreordain, predetermine, mark out beforehand. From pro and horizo; to limit in advance, i.e. predetermine.

HELPS Word-studies


G4309 occurs 6 times in the NT.

Acts 4:


Secondly, predestination is God's plans and decrees.

1 Corinthians 2:


How do you know who is predestined?

Only God knows.

How do you know if you are predestined?

The Paraclete will dwell in you.

Ephesians 1:


Predestination is related to God's foreknowledge and his sovereign will/plan over all people according to God's hidden wisdom. From my own personal experience, even years before I called myself a Christian, I believed that he was looking after me even though I didn't know him.

Now, does God predestine someone to hell?

I do not find that kind of wording in the Bible, that God predestines some to hell. However, we do have Jude 1:


2 Peter 2:


The word for "condemnation" is G2917. It does not always refer to eternal condemnation.

There are two issues: (1) predestine someone to (2) eternal death. The lexical evidence is not that strong when I consider both issues simultaneously.

Some Calvinists overloaded the concept of double predestination by overgeneralizing some bible verses. When it comes to doctrines, it is better to stick closely to the wording in the Scripture according to the precision of the First-Order Logic.

I think the Lord is a good predictor of outcomes, but I don't think he knows ahead of time what decisions we are going to make. I don't believe in predestination.

 

[Scott Downey]

I think the Lord is a good predictor of outcomes, but I don't think he knows ahead of time what decisions we are going to make. I don't believe in predestination.

Oh surely Christ knows, He knows all men.
Before you were born, God wrote in his book all the days fashioned (made) for you, v16

Psalm 139

13 For You formed my inward parts;
You [f]covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for [g]I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My [h]frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How great is the sum of them!
18 If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand;
When I awake, I am still with You.

 

[O'Darby]

I think the Lord is a good predictor of outcomes, but I don't think he knows ahead of time what decisions we are going to make. I don't believe in predestination.

Hey, someone who agrees with me - or at least appears to!

Whether God knows the decisions we will make is more an issue of foreknowledge than predestination. I have absolutely no problem with an omniscient God choosing to create beings with genuine libertarian free will and not knowing in advance the decisions they will make. I see no reason omniscience must extend to the decisions of beings with genuine free will. To me, this would make creation far more interesting and purposeful from God's perspective and would make the battle between God and Satan a real one and less of a cartoon. I believe that God's "omni" attributes include omni-creativity - the Supreme Artist. This perspective makes the creation a real work of art and less of a paint-by-numbers kit.

The conventional non-Calvinist understanding of predestination, not tied to foreknowledge but compatible with it, is that God predestined that all who turned to Christ would be saved. It's what's called "corporate predestination" - the entire Body of Christ will be saved. The predestining is that "all who turn to Christ will be saved" while the foreknowledge is of "those who will turn to Christ." Corporate predestination is entirely consistent with what I suggest in the above paragraph - all who turn to Christ will be saved, but God did not know in advance who that would be or whether it would be 10 milliion or 10 billion people.

I'm not steeped in Calvinist theology, but in Calvinism predestination is definiely not tied to God's foreknowledge. I found this to be a good explanation of the distinction: Foreknowledge And Predestination – A Calvinist Viewpoint | LearnTheology.com.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Isaiah 14:


Romans 8:


First and foremost, predestination is associated with God's foreknowledge.

Strong's 4309: To foreordain, predetermine, mark out beforehand. From pro and horizo; to limit in advance, i.e. predetermine.

HELPS Word-studies


G4309 occurs 6 times in the NT.

Acts 4:


Secondly, predestination is God's plans and decrees.

1 Corinthians 2:


How do you know who is predestined?

Only God knows.

How do you know if you are predestined?

The Paraclete will dwell in you.

Ephesians 1:


Predestination is related to God's foreknowledge and his sovereign will/plan over all people according to God's hidden wisdom. From my own personal experience, even years before I called myself a Christian, I believed that he was looking after me even though I didn't know him.

Now, does God predestine someone to hell?

I do not find that kind of wording in the Bible, that God predestines some to hell. However, we do have Jude 1:


2 Peter 2:


The word for "condemnation" is G2917. It does not always refer to eternal condemnation.

There are two issues: (1) predestine someone to (2) eternal death. The lexical evidence is not that strong when I consider both issues simultaneously.

Some Calvinists overloaded the concept of double predestination by overgeneralizing some bible verses. When it comes to doctrines, it is better to stick closely to the wording in the Scripture according to the precision of the First-Order Logic.

Gods foreknowledge is based on Gods plan and not mans decision. We derive our word prognosis from pro-ginosko. Doctors can give a prgnosis based on what they know and do, and not the patients decisions.

predestination covers both Gods plan and Gods elect individuals , they are predestinated as individuals into the plan God predestinated. It is not either/or but both/and.