The concept of the elect

[TonyChanYT]

Romans 11:

7b The elect obtained it [salvation], but the rest were hardened,

There are two mutually exclusive groups, the elect and the hardened.

Mark 13:

20 And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect [G1588], whom he chose, he shortened the days.

God chose the elect to be saved.

22 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

God chose the elect to be saved even if some are led astray by false christs.

27 And then he [Christ] will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

God's promise to the elect is sure.

Romans 8:

33 Who will bring charges against God's elect? God is the one who justifies;

God justifies the elect. On our part, Col 3:

12 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with hearts of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.

God elects us to be compassionate, kind, humble, gentle, and patient.

 

[Pierac]

The Elect are the chosen by God to have life in the 1000 year reign of the Christ (Jesus)

The rest will have to wait until the 1000 years is complete... There are 3 schools on what happens next...


1. Eternal torment for non-believers...and those whom failed to live up to God's standard (They will suffer forever)

2. Annihilation ... Non-believers and those whom failed to live up to God's standard. (They will be destroyed)

3. Universal reconciliation... God will restore all things after Jesus reign is complete... (They will be restored)

Take your pick...

 

[Hobie]

The Elect are the chosen by God to have life in the 1000 year reign of the Christ (Jesus)

The rest will have to wait until the 1000 years is complete... There are 3 schools on what happens next...


1. Eternal torment for non-believers...and those whom failed to live up to God's standard (They will suffer forever)

2. Annihilation ... Non-believers and those whom failed to live up to God's standard. (They will be destroyed)

3. Universal reconciliation... God will restore all things after Jesus reign is complete... (They will be restored)

Take your pick...

Christ will come and take them to heaven and Gods Word says the rest will perish, so need to read it and understand what that means...

 

[Cassandra]

The Jews are the chosen people; Christians are the elect.

English Standard Version, Matthew 24:


The elect will be saved.


NIV translated the Greek differently:


False prophets may deceive some of the elect and lead them astray.


Even the deceived elect will be saved.

If it were possible....
Think it just puts emphasis on the degree of the deception, not that it would happen.
Father, if it were possible , take this cup from me (It was not possible)

The elect are the elect. Some Christians are elect--not everyone will make it.
Hold on to what thou hast, let no man take thy crown.

 

[Hobie]

If it were possible....
Think it just puts emphasis on the degree of the deception, not that it would happen.
Father, if it were possible , take this cup from me (It was not possible)

The elect are the elect. Some Christians are elect--not everyone will make it.
Hold on to what thou hast, let no man take thy crown.

Amen, let God be true and every man a liar..

 

[Lambano]

The Jews are the chosen people; Christians are the elect.

Say what?

The word used in Matthew 24:22 and Mathew 24:24 is ἐκλεκτός. It is also the same word used by the Septuagint translators of the OT for the Hebrew word בָּחִיר used in 1 Chronicles 16:13 (O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones) and elsewhere in the OT. "Chosen" and "Elect" is the SAME WORD and (I think) the same concept, that concept being "the People of God". (But I could be wrong...)

 

[Lambano]

The question of "Who are the elect?" is something Paul struggled with. You see it in Philippians 3:3 where he claims, "We are the (true) circumcision!", i.e. the elect. You can see it Romans 9-11 where he talks about cutting off branches from "the vine" and grafting in new ones from the Gentiles. And yet he ends with,

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. (Romans 11:28-29)

 

[TonyChanYT]

"Chosen" and "Elect" is the SAME WORD and (I think) the same concept, that concept being "the People of God". (But I could be wrong...)

Actually, you are right in that they do denote the same concept at times.

In this OP, I use these two labels to denote two distinct concepts that further refine the general concept of "the people of God". This is a matter of definitions. If you don't like my labels, you can suggest better ones.

 

[Hobie]

Say what?

The word used in Matthew 24:21 and Mathew 24:24 is ἐκλεκτός. It is also the same word used by the Septuagint translators of the OT for the Hebrew word בָּחִיר used in 1 Chronicles 16:13 (O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones) and elsewhere in the OT. "Chosen" and "Elect" is the SAME WORD and (I think) the same concept, that concept being "the People of God". (But I could be wrong...)

You mean verse 22 and 24..
22 And if those days were not cut short, kol basar (all flesh) would not be saved. But, on account of the Kadoshim, the Bechirim (Chosen Ones), those days will be cut short.

23 Then, if someone says to you, Hinei, here is the Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach!, Or, Hinei! Here! Do not have emunah (faith) [in that].

24 For meshichei sheker (false Moshiachs) will arise, and neviei sheker (false prophets), and they will give otot gedolim (great signs) and moftim (wonders), so as to deceive, if possible, even the Bechirim (Chosen ones).

 

[ElieG12]

Talking about Chosen/Elect requires to talk about something else: elect/chosen to what purpose?

For example: were the first century Christians chosen for something that the faithful prophets of ancient times were not? That's what Peter tells us here:

1 Pet. 1:10 Concerning this very salvation a diligent inquiry and a careful search were made by the prophets who prophesied about the undeserved kindness meant for YOU. 11 They kept on investigating what particular season or what sort of [season] the spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ when it was bearing witness beforehand about the sufferings for Christ and about the glories to follow these. 12 It was revealed to them that, not to themselves, but to YOU, they were ministering the things that have now been announced to YOU through those who have declared the good news to YOU with holy spirit sent forth from heaven. Into these very things angels are desiring to peer.

So to talk about an election that applied to first-century Christians, one must consider whether that election really applies also to those who consider themselves "Christians" in modern times since at least one of them didn't applied to faithful servants of God of old.

Think on this: are the ancient prophets (like Isaiah or Jeremiah) elect/chosen in the same sense that modern "Christians"? Explain why.

 

[Rockerduck]

Talking about Chosen/Elect requires to talk about something else: elect/chosen to what purpose?

For example: were the first century Christians chosen for something that the faithful prophets of ancient times were not? That's what Peter tells us here:

1 Pet. 1:10 Concerning this very salvation a diligent inquiry and a careful search were made by the prophets who prophesied about the undeserved kindness meant for YOU. 11 They kept on investigating what particular season or what sort of [season] the spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ when it was bearing witness beforehand about the sufferings for Christ and about the glories to follow these. 12 It was revealed to them that, not to themselves, but to YOU, they were ministering the things that have now been announced to YOU through those who have declared the good news to YOU with holy spirit sent forth from heaven. Into these very things angels are desiring to peer.

So to talk about an election that applied to first-century Christians, one must consider whether that election really applies also to those who consider themselves "Christians" in modern times since at least one of them didn't applied to faithful servants of God of old.

Think on this: are the ancient prophets (like Isaiah or Jeremiah) elect/chosen in the same sense that modern "Christians"? Explain why.

Those prophets who received the Holy Spirit have the same seal of promise as a Holy Spirit filled born again from above Christian today. A perfect example is King David. They were given the Holy Spirit to communicate with God and do the will of God, as we do today. The "good" Jews of the Old Testament who were obedient were elect also.

1 Samuel 15:22- Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices,
As in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,
And to heed than the fat of rams.

 

[ElieG12]

According to 1 Pet. 1:10-12, some election that applied to Christians in the first century didn't applied to prophets of old. Peter made a very clear difference between the prophets and Christians of his own time.

Jesus implied the same here:

Luke 16:16 The Law and the Prophets were until John. From then on, the Kingdom of God is being declared as good news, and every sort of person is pressing forward toward it.

Mat. 11:11 Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it. 13 For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John.

 

[Pierac]

Christ will come and take them to heaven and Gods Word says the rest will perish, so need to read it and understand what that means...

1. Eternal torment for non-believers...and those whom failed to live up to God's standard (They will suffer forever)

2. Annihilation ... Non-believers and those whom failed to live up to God's standard. (They will be destroyed)

3. Universal reconciliation... God will restore all things after Jesus reign is complete... (They will be restored)

So you choose #2
Based on what? The pond of fire?

Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake 3041 of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 20:10 and, the Adversary that had been deceiving them, was cast into the lake 3041 of fire and brimstone, where were both the wild-beast and the false-prophet; and they shall be tormented, day and night, unto the ages of ages.

G3041
λίμνη
limnē
lim'-nay
Probably from G3040 (through the idea of the nearness of shore); a pond (large or small): - lake.

KJV1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

NASB 1Pe 4:12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you;
NET 1Pe 4:12 Dear friends, do not be astonished that a trial by fire is occurring among you, as though something strange were happening to you.

Do you think 1Pe 4:12 could be the same fire that is in the pond of fire in Rev 20:10?????

 

[Rockerduck]

According to 1 Pet. 1:10-12, some election that applied to Christians in the first century didn't applied to prophets of old. Peter made a very clear difference between the prophets and Christians of his own time.

Jesus implied the same here:

Luke 16:16 The Law and the Prophets were until John. From then on, the Kingdom of God is being declared as good news, and every sort of person is pressing forward toward it.

Mat. 11:11 Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it. 13 For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John.

I read it as the Prophets existed until John the Baptist. John being the last. King David was a prophet too.

1 Samuel 16:22 - Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel arose and went to Ramah.

John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit from birth,
Luke 1:15 - For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.

 

[ElieG12]

I guess you need to re-read the post#10 to understand what it says.

According to what Peter said here, Christians in the first century were elected/chosen for something the prophets were not:

1 Pet. 1:10 Concerning this very salvation a diligent inquiry and a careful search were made by the prophets who prophesied about the undeserved kindness meant for YOU. 11 They kept on investigating what particular season or what sort of [season] the spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ when it was bearing witness beforehand about the sufferings for Christ and about the glories to follow these. 12 It was revealed to them that, not to themselves, but to YOU, they were ministering the things that have now been announced to YOU through those who have declared the good news to YOU with holy spirit sent forth from heaven. Into these very things angels are desiring to peer.

So, to talk about elected/chosen we must add to what purpose...

 

[bro.tan]

The Jews are the chosen people; Christians are the elect.

English Standard Version, Matthew 24:


The elect will be saved.


NIV translated the Greek differently:


False prophets may deceive some of the elect and lead them astray.


Even the deceived elect will be saved.

"Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). These are the Elect and include the stranger, now the Israelites who are still in captivity, which now some people call Jews, are not to be confuse with Jewish people. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (Romans 11:25)

But understand this, Israel which are made up of twelve tribes are the original christians. Let's dive into the end of this conversation Paul is having in Acts 26: 27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest. 28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian. 29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.

The true Israelites are the lord's priest and the lord do not change is ways.

 

[Rockerduck]

I guess you need to re-read the post#10 to understand what it says.

According to what Peter said here, Christians in the first century were elected/chosen for something the prophets were not:

1 Pet. 1:10 Concerning this very salvation a diligent inquiry and a careful search were made by the prophets who prophesied about the undeserved kindness meant for YOU. 11 They kept on investigating what particular season or what sort of [season] the spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ when it was bearing witness beforehand about the sufferings for Christ and about the glories to follow these. 12 It was revealed to them that, not to themselves, but to YOU, they were ministering the things that have now been announced to YOU through those who have declared the good news to YOU with holy spirit sent forth from heaven. Into these very things angels are desiring to peer.

So, to talk about elected/chosen we must add to what purpose...

The NLT makes it plain. I don't know what bible translation you are using, but the Holy Spirit should be capitalized.
The purpose of Salvation by the Grace of God is that Jesus has reconciled us back to God.

Hebrews 11:6 - But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

1: Peter 1:10-12 -
This salvation was something even the prophets wanted to know more about when they prophesied about this gracious salvation prepared for you. 11 They wondered what time or situation the Spirit of Christ within them was talking about when He (Holy Spirit) told them in advance about Christ’s suffering and his great glory afterward.

12 They were told that their messages were not for themselves, but for you. And now this Good News has been announced to you by those who preached in the power of the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. It is all so wonderful that even the angels are eagerly watching these things happen.