The corner

[Matthias]

You're basically saying that Christianity just failed/aborted in the 4th century. If I'm putting words in your mouth, please correct me.

Christianity didn’t fail / wasn’t aborted in the 4th century. The church / Christianity aborted Jewish monotheism, and that long before the 4th century.

I don't think that's the case. There are still so many people who worship God.

The only God whom I worship is the God of Jewish monotheism. This is why you have heard me say that the Trinity is not my God.

I'm not sure "trinitarianism" was ever a sect of anything.

It wasn’t (and despite its claim, isn’t) the only sect of Christianity.

We can no more legitimately deny their place in Christian / church history than they can legitimately deny the place of Jewish monotheism (and the place of other sects) in Christian / church history.

I don’t anathematize trinitarians. Trinitarianism (the system, not necessarily every trinitarian) anathematizes non-trinitarians.

As I see it, those proclaiming the Trinity don't seem to be teaching anything coherent. It's more an an acknowledgment that they DON'T UNDERSTAND God, and that they prefer to rely on the traditions of the Church over their own understanding.

If I were a trinitarian I would take great exception to that. You will see that even in this thread (and others) that is what they frequently say to and about me. I let it pass and chalk it up to the zeal of a faith that isn’t mine. It will take much more than that to persuade me that the Jewish monotheism of Israel and the Messiah is an improper understanding of the one God. (Just between you, me, and the hat rack - they aren’t trying to persuade me.)

Jewish monotheism always strikes me as a strange combination of words.

Thanks for sharing that with me.

Moses' God wasn't the only God Israel believed in; just the only one they were allowed to worship. They regarded the gods of the surrounding cities and nations as real, powerful, often hostile and perhaps in conflict with their own God. The commandment doesn't say, "there are no other gods." It says, "You will have no other gods before Me." That's not monotheism; that's monaltrism.

It isn't too different in Jesus' day. The New Testament is credulous of THE devil, as well as demons, often tying them to foreign gods, and casting them in opposition to themselves.

At some point, Judaism and Christianity DID transform from monaltrism to true monotheism. That date is later than you think.

Maybe we can pursue that another time in another thread. There is much that you are saying that I agree with.

 

[Matthias]

Oy vey! What a corner this false dichotomy concept is.

 

[Wick Stick]

If I were a trinitarian I would take great exception to that. You will see that even in this thread (and others) that is what they frequently say to and about me. I let it pass and chalk it up to the zeal of a faith that isn’t mine. It will take much more than that to persuade me that the Jewish monotheism of Israel and the Messiah is an improper understanding of the one God. (Just between you, me, and the hat rack - they aren’t trying to persuade me.)

It wasn't meant to be derogatory. Following our father's faith in places where we don't have a full understanding seems quite reasonable to me.

 

[Matthias]

It wasn't meant to be derogatory. Following our father's faith in places where we don't have a full understanding seems quite reasonable to me.

Let’s hope the trinitarians also see it that way and be gracious toward us.

 

[Matthias]

If Jesus views Jewish monotheism as a destroyed dogma and heresy (see Gregory of Nyssa) then why would it be desirable to have it in the same corner with the Trinity?