The Crucified Life
- Thread starter Episkopos
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It reaches a point where there is a strange...overlay. Like...the suffering becomes almost not suffering because of the joy overlaying it...
I guess...it's such suffering at first because we have not yet grown in any of the virtues. Our pride causes it to be so painful. I mean, its just really painful. And when you see someone dying, you want to help alleviate their pain in some way while you simultaneously know you don't even dare try because God is doing what's needful. And really, even if you tried, they wouldn't understand you yet.
Romans 8 speaks of 'groaning that cannot be uttered'.
I think we're supposed to be tightly grouped together. We need to be in fellowship with other believers.
Myself, I look first and foremost to my wife. As the head of the wife, it's up to me, what direction we're going.
I've been learning that the way to understand is to experience the same things. Even that only goes so far, but it does go far.
But I really think it's a mistake to think of ourselves as along, and that this is by God's design.
Much love!
Philippians is my latest "camp out" book. I've been camped out on it for about a week now.
much love!
Hi stunnedbygrace,
While I find life has much pain, just the same, I think that it need not be painful to live in the Spirit. I think what hurts us, the thing that causes us such internal distress, is when we have the desire for holiness, but we don't believe we can really live holy lives.
I think there's the frustration of wanting yet not believing this life is already ours.
But when we are walking in the Spirit, there is joy and peace and love.
Much love!
If you have in mind where Jesus said, be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect, this was in the context that God loves the just and the unjust, gives rain and sunshine to the just and the unjust, and we are to love everyone, not just the ones loving us, therefore, be perfect as your Father is perfect, that is, love completely like He loves completely.
Just the same, Be holy, even as I am holy, there's no room to question on that one!
Much love!
I just don't think you're going to understand this at this time. You argue with almost everything epi states, and you agree often with others who always disagree with him. In fact, if you weren't so socially polite, I would say you hold the coats of others as they beat him up.
Because I don't know you, I don't know if its being very young in the Lord, indoctrination, or a combination, but I'm not real keen on giving you an example because I think you will argue that we don't die daily, which won't help build anyone up.
Forgive me if I've offended you. I tried to be as gentle as I could.
Not at all, I appreciate your openness!
I think I'm very misunderstood here. You may be surprised to find how much I agree with Episkopos. There is one thing I disagree very strongly with. You may peruse the likes I've given his posts, the affirmations of things he's said that I've posted.
I think his message, but for this one particular thing, is profoundly important.
Much love!
Mark
Just to give a reply to this part . . . I suppose my view on this point would be best stated that I believe we died in Christ, that this happened when we were born again, and that every minute of every day we are to live according to that reality. That the flesh opposes this, having its own desires and so forth. That when the flesh begins to assert itself, we are to count it already dead and powerless.
We are to live in Jesus' resurrection, which transforms our life.
I see Scriptures that teach that we are already dead in Him, and also, for instance, an ongoing "put to death your members which are upon the earth". I understand this to mean we are dead to the world, to the flesh, to the law, and alive to Christ, and that we need to impose this truth over our bodies of flesh, so that we live that way. This putting to death our members which are upon the earth is to bring a separation between the desires of our bodies, the natural man, from the control imposed by the new man, the spirit child of God.
Much love!
Mark
The we can walk in the resurrection. That there is a difference between resisting sin, and walking in the Spirit.
So many don't believe that we are to do so.
Many believe that we are consigned to lives characterized by weakness and sinfulness. I believe that the weakness in our flesh, of whatever description, is there to propel us into the spirit life.
I believe we can prove the truth of this to ourselves, simply by focusing on God, on Scripture, on His ways and His things, and that by doing so we don't sin, because we are doing righteousness.
You can prove this to yourself in 5 minutes time. For 5 minutes, even for 1 minute, focus on God's love for you, His provision for you, His undying commitment to you. For 5 minutes focus on this. Then repeat. And you'll have 10 minutes. Repeat. You see what I'm saying. Something knocks you off your feet? Stand right back up, and stay there.
We enter by faith in Jesus into the grace in which . . . We Stand.
Much love!
In my case suffering remained suffering, but I knew God's love in my pain.
One of my favorite bands is called Urban Rescue. I heard an interview with one of the guys where he was describing what it was like to have his father die when he was 18, and his mother die a year later.
It was out of his suffering that he wrote a number of songs, which I listen to most days. I've found that the music that ministers the most to me was largely written by those who have suffered deeply in their lives.
Something that he said, something like, It sounds weird, I know, but sometimes I wish I could go back to that moment of intense suffering, because that was where I found God's love. I was very surprised to hear someone else say that. I thought I was the only one that strange!
It didn't matter how bad the pain way, how debilitating my confusion, because I knew, absolutely, my Creator is here, and He loves me!
Much love!
Mark
I like this!
That there are two types of Christians, one that is in Christ, and one that is not. I believe all who are born again both are indwelt by Christ, and are in Christ.
As I understand @Episkopos , he teaches that we must become "in Christ" to live a holy life, but that this doesn't happen at regeneration, instead, it happens through our determination to die to the world, allowing us to release ourselves into His resurrection life, and live holy. Hopefully he will correct me if this is not a correct presentation.
My understanding is that we are in Christ when we are born again, and what remains is for us to take up our power in the Holy Spirit, and live.
Much love!
