The deadly consequences of denying limited atonement !

[Ronald Nolette]

I understand that they are tied together. John MacArthur said, "Jesus's sacrifice is the "propitiation"—the satisfaction that turns away the wrath of God—which is the very mechanism that makes the "atonement" (our reconciliation) possible".
I just am not an adherent of TULIP. I think Calvin's acronym reached into an area that was really over his head ( and ours); and tried to pack God's Plan, His Grace and foreknowledge into a nice flowery box. Furthermore, my experience with Calvinists is that they were strict, cold, judgmental, often beating people over the head with their Bibles, and often spreading a hell-fire gospel.

Well do not throw the baby out with the bath water. What are called teh five points of Calvinism are extremely biblical! Just because some people may have a personality that is not very social, does not make a belief wrong! Teh bible decides what is right ands wrong for us.

 

[Anchorite]

Well do not throw the baby out with the bath water. What are called teh five points of Calvinism are extremely biblical! Just because some people may have a personality that is not very social, does not make a belief wrong! Teh bible decides what is right ands wrong for us.

The 5 TULIP points of Calvinism are not biblical. They are an erroneous theological trainwreck.

Look at the man whose name is attached to this error.

Matthew 7

17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

John Calvin was widely regarded as having a choleric, strict, and uncompromising personality, often described as harsh, severe, and "sandpaper on bare skin" by his contemporaries.

His flaws included a fiery temper, intense jealousy of his reputation, and a dogmatic approach that led to authoritarian rule in Geneva, causing severe persecution and murder of Calvin’s theological opponents.

Calvin was merciless toward theological dissenters, leading to the execution (burning at the stake) of Michael Servetus, the beheading of Jacques Gruet, and the imprisonment or banishment of many others (e.g., Jerome Bolsec).

As a leader, he enforced strict moral laws in Geneva, leading to 414 prosecutions for offences such as wearing the wrong clothing or dancing.

He was prideful and prone to holding deep grudges, and his letters often revealed a deeply passionate, but vindictive, stubborn, and unforgiving side in disputes.

John Calvin’s extreme dedication to doctrine and rigid demeanor led to broken relationships, and his sometimes manipulative, gossipy attempts to secure support backfired, damaging his already bad reputation.

 

[brightfame52]

The children of Israel in the wilderness, or the church in the wilderness Acts 7:38

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

It was a type of the Church under the New Covenant, for it consisted of Abrahams physical natural seed the jews. The Church of Christ consiteth of Abrahams Spiritual seed the believer in Christ regardless of ethnicity. Gal 3:7,26,28,29

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

And its this seed of Abraham Christ came into the world to identify with and die for specifically.

Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

It was for this peoples sins Christ died for in 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

 

[Rockerduck]

The 5 TULIP points of Calvinism are not biblical. They are an erroneous theological trainwreck.

Look at the man whose name is attached to this error.

Matthew 7

17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

John Calvin was widely regarded as having a choleric, strict, and uncompromising personality, often described as harsh, severe, and "sandpaper on bare skin" by his contemporaries.

His flaws included a fiery temper, intense jealousy of his reputation, and a dogmatic approach that led to authoritarian rule in Geneva, causing severe persecution and murder of Calvin’s theological opponents.

Calvin was merciless toward theological dissenters, leading to the execution (burning at the stake) of Michael Servetus, the beheading of Jacques Gruet, and the imprisonment or banishment of many others (e.g., Jerome Bolsec).

As a leader, he enforced strict moral laws in Geneva, leading to 414 prosecutions for offences such as wearing the wrong clothing or dancing.

He was prideful and prone to holding deep grudges, and his letters often revealed a deeply passionate, but vindictive, stubborn, and unforgiving side in disputes.

John Calvin’s extreme dedication to doctrine and rigid demeanor led to broken relationships, and his sometimes manipulative, gossipy attempts to secure support backfired, damaging his already bad reputation.

Mary ( bloody Mary) was killing Christians and did way more persecution during Calvin's reign. All this at the same time. Exiles came to Geneva and studied. Calvin created the highly popular Geneva bible because the scholars came to him. Execution or assassination's of political revivals had been going on at least since John Hus. Matin Luther was almost one. Don't just focus on one man during the same time period. It was the Council of Dort, 100 yrs later, that created tulip to combat the Arminianism.

 

[Anchorite]

Mary ( bloody Mary) was killing Christians and did way more persecution during Calvin's reign. All this at the same time. Exiles came to Geneva and studied. Calvin created the highly popular Geneva bible because the scholars came to him. Execution or assassination's of political revivals had been going on at least since John Hus. Matin Luther was almost one. Don't just focus on one man during the same time period. It was the Council of Dort, 100 yrs later, that created tulip to combat the Arminianism.

The excuse of “everybody was doing it” is no justification for John Calvin approving of the execution of his theological opponents. Calvinism is named after John Calvin. Thus, he should be examined to see if his life reflected true Christian principles. It did not.

 

[Rockerduck]

The excuse of “everybody was doing it” is no justification for John Calvin approving of the execution of his theological opponents. Calvinism is named after John Calvin. Thus, he should be examined to see if his life reflected true Christian principles. It did not.

The Church and Gov't were the persecutors in the 1500's not everybody. The Synod of Dort coined the name Calvinism. His name is not in any bible, the Apostle Paul's doctrines are, so argue scripture not a person who wrote about it. Luther, Zwingli, Calvin and Knox stand tall in the reformation movement and the history books. Many Kings had personality problems too. I had to study them in college. However, nobody ever, ever brought up Calvinist with me until around ten years ago for some reason, but I guess when liberalism became known more in Church politics, that I'm still fighting the everyone goes to heaven crowd more than ever.

 

[Anchorite]

The Church and Gov't were the persecutors in the 1500's not everybody. The Synod of Dort coined the name Calvinism. His name is not in any bible, the Apostle Paul's doctrines are, so argue scripture not a person who wrote about it. Luther, Zwingli, Calvin and Knox stand tall in the reformation movement and the history books. Many Kings had personality problems too. I had to study them in college. However, nobody ever, ever brought up Calvinist with me until around ten years ago for some reason, but I guess when liberalism became known more in Church politics, that I'm still fighting the everyone goes to heaven crowd more than ever.

History books are not infallible. Standing tall in a history of the reformation movement is no guarantee that a theologian is worth following.

I’m glad you oppose the universalism doctrine that everyone goes to heaven.

But, contrary to what Calvinism teaches, everyone could go to heaven, if everyone would believe in Jesus Christ, trusting His sacrifice on the cross for their personal sins, and believing that God the Father raised Jesus from the dead.

Each person has the chance to go to heaven, but they must repent and turn to Jesus.

1 Timothy 2

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

[Rockerduck]

History books are not infallible. Standing tall in a history of the reformation movement is no guarantee that a theologian is worth following.

I’m glad you oppose the universalism doctrine that everyone goes to heaven.

But, contrary to what Calvinism teaches, everyone could go to heaven, if everyone would believe in Jesus Christ, trusting His sacrifice on the cross for their personal sins, and believing that God the Father raised Jesus from the dead.

Each person has the chance to go to heaven, but they must repent and turn to Jesus.

1 Timothy 2

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

I'm not Calvinist, never said I was. I know History. 1 John 2:2

 

[Anchorite]

I'm not Calvinist, never said I was. I know History. 1 John 2:2

I am glad you are not a Calvinist. I know history, too. And the history of John Calvin tells me any theology based on his ideas is not good.

 

[Rockerduck]

I am glad you are not a Calvinist. I know history, too. And the history of John Calvin tells me any theology based on his ideas is not good.

I respect the reformation other wise we would all still be in Catholicism or the Church of England. Luther, Calvin, and Knox got all their theology from the same word of God that we do. Its best to know the bible when studying the reformation. Luther still believed in the Transubstantiation of the Eucharist. He and Zwingli didn't see eye to eye on many parts of the bible, Its a fascinating study.

 

[Anchorite]

I respect the reformation other wise we would all still be in Catholicism or the Church of England. Luther, Calvin, and Knox got all their theology from the same word of God that we do. Its best to know the bible when studying the reformation. Luther still believed in the Transubstantiation of the Eucharist. He and Zwingli didn't see eye to eye on many parts of the bible, Its a fascinating study.

Yes. I like much of the theology of the reformation. But each reformer had some ideas that were not so good. Luther had some antisemitism. I think it is dangerous to accept and follow all the doctrines of any one theologian.

 

[Rockerduck]

Yes. I like much of the theology of the reformation. But each reformer had some ideas that were not so good. Luther had some antisemitism. I think it is dangerous to accept and follow all the doctrines of any one theologian.

Luther didn't have just some, he was antisemitic, and that too was a prevailing attitudes towards Jews in that century. I agree.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Well do not throw the baby out with the bath water. What are called teh five points of Calvinism are extremely biblical! Just because some people may have a personality that is not very social, does not make a belief wrong! Teh bible decides what is right ands wrong for us.

The Bible is the Word of God, Calvin's TULIP is not. It is commentary, a flawed perspective. You can value what he constructed, I don't need it. The Bible is sufficient and the Holy Spirit teaches us.
Something just came to me. TULIP to some Christians is similar to the Midrash to Jews.

 

[Rockerduck]

The Bible is the Word of God, Calvin's TULIP is not. It is commentary, a flawed perspective. You can value what he constructed, I don't need it. The Bible is sufficient and the Holy Spirit teaches us.
Something just came to me. TULIP to some Christians is similar to the Midrash to Jews.

It is not Calvin's tulip, it is the Synod of Dort's tulip to combat Arminianism.

 

[brightfame52]

Calvin's TULIP is not.

Yes it is, its foundational in the Gospel

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The 5 TULIP points of Calvinism are not biblical. They are an erroneous theological trainwreck.

Look at the man whose name is attached to this error.

Matthew 7

17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

John Calvin was widely regarded as having a choleric, strict, and uncompromising personality, often described as harsh, severe, and "sandpaper on bare skin" by his contemporaries.

His flaws included a fiery temper, intense jealousy of his reputation, and a dogmatic approach that led to authoritarian rule in Geneva, causing severe persecution and murder of Calvin’s theological opponents.

Calvin was merciless toward theological dissenters, leading to the execution (burning at the stake) of Michael Servetus, the beheading of Jacques Gruet, and the imprisonment or banishment of many others (e.g., Jerome Bolsec).

As a leader, he enforced strict moral laws in Geneva, leading to 414 prosecutions for offences such as wearing the wrong clothing or dancing.

He was prideful and prone to holding deep grudges, and his letters often revealed a deeply passionate, but vindictive, stubborn, and unforgiving side in disputes.

John Calvin’s extreme dedication to doctrine and rigid demeanor led to broken relationships, and his sometimes manipulative, gossipy attempts to secure support backfired, damaging his already bad reputation.

The 5 TULIP points of Calvinism are not biblical. They are an erroneous theological trainwreck.

Look at the man whose name is attached to this error.

Matthew 7

17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

John Calvin was widely regarded as having a choleric, strict, and uncompromising personality, often described as harsh, severe, and "sandpaper on bare skin" by his contemporaries.

His flaws included a fiery temper, intense jealousy of his reputation, and a dogmatic approach that led to authoritarian rule in Geneva, causing severe persecution and murder of Calvin’s theological opponents.

Calvin was merciless toward theological dissenters, leading to the execution (burning at the stake) of Michael Servetus, the beheading of Jacques Gruet, and the imprisonment or banishment of many others (e.g., Jerome Bolsec).

As a leader, he enforced strict moral laws in Geneva, leading to 414 prosecutions for offences such as wearing the wrong clothing or dancing.

He was prideful and prone to holding deep grudges, and his letters often revealed a deeply passionate, but vindictive, stubborn, and unforgiving side in disputes.

John Calvin’s extreme dedication to doctrine and rigid demeanor led to broken relationships, and his sometimes manipulative, gossipy attempts to secure support backfired, damaging his already bad reputation.

Show how the five points are unbiblical. Yo made teh accusation, now provide evidence to support your claim.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Bible is the Word of God, Calvin's TULIP is not. It is commentary, a flawed perspective. You can value what he constructed, I don't need it. The Bible is sufficient and the Holy Spirit teaches us.
Something just came to me. TULIP to some Christians is similar to the Midrash to Jews.

Well show from Scripture that Total De[pravity (man is completely lost)
Unconditional Election (man does not have to straighten himself out to come to Christ)
Limited Atonement( only the saved have their sins erased)
Irresistible Grace (Gods call brings people to Him)
Perseverance of the saints (Eternal Security)

Show that these are unbiblical

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It is not Calvin's tulip, it is the Synod of Dort's tulip to combat Arminianism.

It is not Calvin's tulip, it is the Synod of Dort's tulip to combat Arminianism.

Yes, okay Calvin did not himself create that acronym, the Reformed Church created after hus death, formalizing it and attributing it to his theology.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Well show from Scripture that Total De[pravity (man is completely lost)
Unconditional Election (man does not have to straighten himself out to come to Christ)
Limited Atonement( only the saved have their sins erased)
Irresistible Grace (Gods call brings people to Him)
Perseverance of the saints (Eternal Security)

Show that these are unbiblical

I think TULIP is flawed. It is high minded, presumptuous, cold and simplistic ( as to reduce the sovereignty of God into a cute flowery acronym). Actually to be able to summarize something of this magnitude, one would have to be omniscient. God's Word is sufficient and then of course we have the Holy Spirit to teach us.
There is a tension between the spiritual and physical realms and just how things play out are mysterious to us, above our knowledge and mental capacity. So it is with this apparent paradox that we bump up against and take sides.
Forrest Gump got it right. Is our destiny fixed or do we make our own destiny? He said, "Both are going on at the same time." ( That was my all time favorite movie btw.)

"God draws all men to Himself" - but many resist! He grieved when He destroyed the world with the flood, but it had to be that way - for our sake. Prophetic scripture states that many will be lost and hence judged and destroyed. What else can we conclude other than He did not predestine those to be saved?

Totally depraved"? Well man left to himself is, but we aren't are we? GOD is the author of our faith AND He is also working in everyone's life. I think the condition of man's heart before the Flood was totally depraved. But God's principles have permeated throughout the world since then.
Jesus has changed the world. We have God, some of us do, so why imply the harsh negative, that is not the Gospel way. Sin needs to be addressed. But are we all totally depraved? That would imply totally evil all the time - as they were before Flood.

God simplified His plan for us by giving us the whole Bible. His foreknowledge is far beyond what we were given.
Calvinists are often cold and judgmental, pointing their holy fingers at everyone. I think they are like Ephesus.


"We know in part" and so why form an acronym that appears to be fully clear, yet we do not see things clearly, they are blurry and God works in mysterious ways.
There is this apparent paradox that we bump up against when examing these five points; and so we take sides. Btw, I am not an Arminian either - don't entertain that dispute.
Is life fixed, our destiny that is. In our perspective, we hope that it's fixed and live like it's not. I used to say the signifant things our part of His plan. The forks in the road, the people on your life, the life altering experiences; not the small stuff. But our view of the small stuff may amount to a big deal. You want to go for a ride with the guys to the beach, but your Dad tells you that you must do your chores and homework! Is that small stuff? Not when the boys that day happen to drink and wrapped the car around a telephone pole and all died. The following year, you became a Christian. If you are predestined to be saved, God obviously must keep you alive until then, which means everyday He and His angels are watching over you keeping you from a dealt incident. What about those boys who died? Were they Christians, did they have faith?

Unconditional Election? Maybe, but that is in the realm of God's foreknowledge, His omniscience and should be left alone.
From our perspective God says if you do this, this will happen or I will grant you that. We are supposed to believe that our cooperation is essential to how things turn out - even though we cannot mess up His plan, He still wants us to feel like we have achieved something to get the " Well done good and faithful servant"!
Isn't believing "in Christ" a condition? Jesus is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith, so that should settle the matter. But still, we are participants, thinking that our choices in life matter. They do, life is filled with them. So how do we sort out God's power and ours?
"God desires that all to come to Him" --- but not all do.
Wait a minute, God desires something that can't be done ... that He is unable to accomplish??? That must be true. He grieved when He destroyed the world with the flood, but it had to be - for our sake. Prophetic scripture states that many will be lost and hence judged and destroyed. What else can we conclude other than He did not predestine those to be saved?

Limited Atonement? Predestination is true; but why present it as though Jesus sacrificial death was limited, not powerful enough to cover all sin? It is. Limited atonement, is technically _ at the end of time _ true _ (that not all will make it so, the blood will not be applied to all); but this should not be a theme and evangelical tool to hit everyone over the head with as they spread the love of the Gospel.

Irresistible Grace? Wait a minute, for that to work, he had to divide grace into two categories: common grace and effectual grace. What? Grace is grace, it is God's unmerited favor. It is offered to all but some resist it. Romans 1 says, "man is without excuse". If some were predestined to die ( made for dishonor - which I believe), then that would be their excuse, "You made me this way, how could I do otherwise"? See the paradox, the tension.
Jesus said, “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing” Matthew 23:37-39.
They resisted His Grace over and over again.

Perseverance of the Saints? Now, here we have something positive, a real actual scripture quote. (Phil.1:6 & 2:13) It is a fact, those who are born again will do the Lord's work and persevere til the end. Opps, I guess that makes me a 1 point Calvinist?

Let me add to the idea of total depravity. If man was totally depraved, that would be his excuse! Romans 1 says given all that God has revealed to man: "who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened."

We were made in GOD'S IMAGE, given a rational mind, emotions, volition, creative abilities ... Sure we are born spiritually blind and can only come to the Father if and when He draws us, we cannot lift our veil of blindness nor remove our sins. But it says right there, He gave us the truth from the beginning and we suppressed it. The truth was manifest in us! Is that TOTAL DEPRAVITY? I did stae that prior to the Flood man became depraved - but not all of them were. Was Abel, was Enoch, Noah? No. Noah's father, grandfather and great grandfather back to Adam weren't all depraved either.

 

[Rockerduck]

I think TULIP is flawed. It is high minded, presumptuous, cold and simplistic ( as to reduce the sovereignty of God into a cute flowery acronym). Actually to be able to summarize something of this magnitude, one would have to be omniscient. God's Word is sufficient and then of course we have the Holy Spirit to teach us.
There is a tension between the spiritual and physical realms and just how things play out are mysterious to us, above our knowledge and mental capacity. So it is with this apparent paradox that we bump up against and take sides.
Forrest Gump got it right. Is our destiny fixed or do we make our own destiny? He said, "Both are going on at the same time." ( That was my all time favorite movie btw.)

"God draws all men to Himself" - but many resist! He grieved when He destroyed the world with the flood, but it had to be that way - for our sake. Prophetic scripture states that many will be lost and hence judged and destroyed. What else can we conclude other than He did not predestine those to be saved?

Totally depraved"? Well man left to himself is, but we aren't are we? GOD is the author of our faith AND He is also working in everyone's life. I think the condition of man's heart before the Flood was totally depraved. But God's principles have permeated throughout the world since then.
Jesus has changed the world. We have God, some of us do, so why imply the harsh negative, that is not the Gospel way. Sin needs to be addressed. But are we all totally depraved? That would imply totally evil all the time - as they were before Flood.

God simplified His plan for us by giving us the whole Bible. His foreknowledge is far beyond what we were given.
Calvinists are often cold and judgmental, pointing their holy fingers at everyone. I think they are like Ephesus.


"We know in part" and so why form an acronym that appears to be fully clear, yet we do not see things clearly, they are blurry and God works in mysterious ways.
There is this apparent paradox that we bump up against when examing these five points; and so we take sides. Btw, I am not an Arminian either - don't entertain that dispute.
Is life fixed, our destiny that is. In our perspective, we hope that it's fixed and live like it's not. I used to say the signifant things our part of His plan. The forks in the road, the people on your life, the life altering experiences; not the small stuff. But our view of the small stuff may amount to a big deal. You want to go for a ride with the guys to the beach, but your Dad tells you that you must do your chores and homework! Is that small stuff? Not when the boys that day happen to drink and wrapped the car around a telephone pole and all died. The following year, you became a Christian. If you are predestined to be saved, God obviously must keep you alive until then, which means everyday He and His angels are watching over you keeping you from a dealt incident. What about those boys who died? Were they Christians, did they have faith?

Unconditional Election? Maybe, but that is in the realm of God's foreknowledge, His omniscience and should be left alone.
From our perspective God says if you do this, this will happen or I will grant you that. We are supposed to believe that our cooperation is essential to how things turn out - even though we cannot mess up His plan, He still wants us to feel like we have achieved something to get the " Well done good and faithful servant"!
Isn't believing "in Christ" a condition? Jesus is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith, so that should settle the matter. But still, we are participants, thinking that our choices in life matter. They do, life is filled with them. So how do we sort out God's power and ours?
"God desires that all to come to Him" --- but not all do.
Wait a minute, God desires something that can't be done ... that He is unable to accomplish??? That must be true. He grieved when He destroyed the world with the flood, but it had to be - for our sake. Prophetic scripture states that many will be lost and hence judged and destroyed. What else can we conclude other than He did not predestine those to be saved?

Limited Atonement? Predestination is true; but why present it as though Jesus sacrificial death was limited, not powerful enough to cover all sin? It is. Limited atonement, is technically _ at the end of time _ true _ (that not all will make it so, the blood will not be applied to all); but this should not be a theme and evangelical tool to hit everyone over the head with as they spread the love of the Gospel.

Irresistible Grace? Wait a minute, for that to work, he had to divide grace into two categories: common grace and effectual grace. What? Grace is grace, it is God's unmerited favor. It is offered to all but some resist it. Romans 1 says, "man is without excuse". If some were predestined to die ( made for dishonor - which I believe), then that would be their excuse, "You made me this way, how could I do otherwise"? See the paradox, the tension.
Jesus said, “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing” Matthew 23:37-39.
They resisted His Grace over and over again.

Perseverance of the Saints? Now, here we have something positive, a real actual scripture quote. (Phil.1:6 & 2:13) It is a fact, those who are born again will do the Lord's work and persevere til the end. Opps, I guess that makes me a 1 point Calvinist?

I think the Synod of Dort wrote the description harsh for that century. I think Total depravity should just say Absolute Inability. Calvin did say that we are so entirely controlled by the power of sin, that the whole mind, the whole heart, and all of our actions are under its influence. This is today what we call the world, and those that are unsaved are under the influence of the god of the this world. It blinds people to not seek God. Even though man is a spiritual being, the devil points them to cults, or the Catholic Church or any place they will not find the true God, but they think that they have. As I said, the devil has them blinded.