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The Death Burial Ressurection And Ascension By Christ In A Saint

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by soul man, Aug 1, 2021.

  1. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'For the love of Christ constraineth us;
    because we thus judge,
    that if one died for all,
    then were all dead:
    And that He died for all,
    that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves,
    but unto Him which died for them, and rose again.'

    (2Cor. 5:14-15)

    Hi @soul man,

    I believe that the believer in Christ Jesus is reckoned by God to have died with Christ, been buried with Him, quickened and raised with Him: That he also is reckoned to have ascended with His Saviour to God's right hand, where he now awaits Christ's manifestation in glory, when he will be manifested with Him there.

    This death happens the moment we believe, for God places us 'in Christ' (1 Corinthians 1:30-31).

    We who were 'in Adam', as the head of the human race, are transferred into the headship of Christ, and are reckoned to be 'in Christ' Having died in Christ when He died, and been raised to walk in newness of life before the Father as He is.

    'For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
    For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.'

    (1Cor 15:21-22)

    * I hope that it is a difference of expression rather then a difference of understanding that we have, soul man. Yes?

    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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  2. MatthewG

    MatthewG Well-Known Member

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    The Facts of the Resurrection of Christ are founded in 1 Corinthians 15

    Do not really enjoy typing on here as much as use to but will only so often.

    Each of you thank you for your contributions to the thread and may the peace and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, love of God, and fellowship of the holy spirit be with you.

    1 Corinthians 15
    Young's Literal Translation

    15 And I make known to you, brethren, the good news that I proclaimed to you, which also ye did receive, in which also ye have stood,

    2 through which also ye are being saved, in what words I proclaimed good news to you, if ye hold fast, except ye did believe in vain,

    3 for I delivered to you first, what also I did receive, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Writings,

    4 and that he was buried, and that he hath risen on the third day, according to the Writings,

    5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve,

    6 afterwards he appeared to above five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain till now, and certain also did fall asleep;

    7 afterwards he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.

    8 And last of all -- as to the untimely birth -- he appeared also to me,

    9 for I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I did persecute the assembly of God,

    10 and by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace that [is] towards me came not in vain, but more abundantly than they all did I labour, yet not I, but the grace of God that [is] with me;

    11 whether, then, I or they, so we preach, and so ye did believe.

    12 And if Christ is preached, that out of the dead he hath risen, how say certain among you, that there is no rising again of dead persons?

    13 and if there be no rising again of dead persons, neither hath Christ risen;

    14 and if Christ hath not risen, then void [is] our preaching, and void also your faith,

    15 and we also are found false witnesses of God, because we did testify of God that He raised up the Christ, whom He did not raise if then dead persons do not rise;

    16 for if dead persons do not rise, neither hath Christ risen,

    17 and if Christ hath not risen, vain is your faith, ye are yet in your sins;

    18 then, also, those having fallen asleep in Christ did perish;

    19 if in this life we have hope in Christ only, of all men we are most to be pitied.

    20 And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead -- the first-fruits of those sleeping he became,

    21 for since through man [is] the death, also through man [is] a rising again of the dead,

    22 for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,

    23 and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,

    24 then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power --

    25 for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet --

    26 the last enemy is done away -- death;

    27 for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, [it is] evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,

    28 and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.

    29 Seeing what shall they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? why also are they baptized for the dead?

    30 why also do we stand in peril every hour?

    31 Every day do I die, by the glorying of you that I have in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    32 if after the manner of a man with wild beasts I fought in Ephesus, what the advantage to me if the dead do not rise? let us eat and drink, for to-morrow we die!

    33 Be not led astray; evil communications corrupt good manners;

    34 awake up, as is right, and sin not; for certain have an ignorance of God; for shame to you I say [it].

    35 But some one will say, `How do the dead rise?

    36 unwise! thou -- what thou dost sow is not quickened except it may die;

    37 and that which thou dost sow, not the body that shall be dost thou sow, but bare grain, it may be of wheat, or of some one of the others,

    38 and God doth give to it a body according as He willed, and to each of the seeds its proper body.

    39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another of fishes, and another of birds;

    40 and [there are] heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but one [is] the glory of the heavenly, and another that of the earthly;

    41 one glory of sun, and another glory of moon, and another glory of stars, for star from star doth differ in glory.

    42 So also [is] the rising again of the dead: it is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;

    43 it is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;

    44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body; there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body;

    45 so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam [is] for a life-giving spirit,

    46 but that which is spiritual [is] not first, but that which [was] natural, afterwards that which [is] spiritual.

    47 The first man [is] out of the earth, earthy; the second man [is] the Lord out of heaven;

    48 as [is] the earthy, such [are] also the earthy; and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] also the heavenly;

    49 and, according as we did bear the image of the earthy, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly.

    50 And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption;

    51 lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed;

    52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we -- we shall be changed:

    53 for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality;

    54 and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up -- to victory;

    55 where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?'

    56 and the sting of the death [is] the sin, and the power of the sin the law;

    57 and to God -- thanks, to Him who is giving us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ;

    58 so that, my brethren beloved, become ye stedfast, unmovable, abounding in the work of the Lord at all times, knowing that your labour is not vain in the Lord.
     
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  3. MatthewG

    MatthewG Well-Known Member

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    Each person who believes receives the holy spirit / Spirit of God / Spirit of Christ - into their lives in which produces fruit in the believer as them being the - branch - that doesn't do anything but allow the flow to come through; or impede it, by their choice (the believers choosing.)

    Unbelievers can have the holy spirit around them but not in them because they have not accepted faith yet.
     
  4. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    I think you will find that the great tribulation will be upon you sooner than you think Re. One thing is for certain, it either has, or hasn't. In this case, one of us is correct. Sometimes when discussing a subject both can be in error, but not this time, one of us will prove to be correct in our understanding. For now however, it is simply opinion.
     
  5. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    If you are referring to this:

    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,...​

    That already took place. We are way past that. I already provided this before, but:

    [​IMG]

    https://archive.org/download/awhn-2300-day-years-prophecy-of-daniel-8-vs-14-and-its-sub-parts/AWHN - 2300 Day-Years Prophecy of Daniel 8 Vs 14 And Its Sub-Parts.jpg

    Yet you will refuse to believe, you will refuse to acknowledge the history that is provided in many sources. You can only see what WTS tells you to see, unfortunately, and is the reason you refuse to look, to read anything but what they approve.

    [1,290, AD 508 unto AD 1798]
    Daniel 12:11 KJB - "... a thousand two hundred and ninety days."

    [1,335, AD 508 unto AD 1843/44]
    Daniel 12:12 KJB - "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days."
    Revelation 14:13 KJB - "... Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth ..."

    [70 Weeks, 62 + 7 + 1 [1/2 + 1/2], 457 BC unto AD 27 [Baptism], unto AD 31 [Cross], unto AD 34 [Stephen], then the remaining 1810, unto AD 1843/44]
    Daniel 9:24-27 KJB - Whole ...

    [5 Anti-typical feast Months, AD 31-100, unto AD 1833/34, Day of Trumpets, from Pentecost; Leviticus 23; Woe 1, Woe 2 and Woe 3, encomapssing the whole 'Exodus', 'Wilderness' unto 'Canaan']
    Revelation 9:5 KJB - "... five months ..."
    Revelation 9:6 KJB - "... those days ..."
    Revelation 9:10 KJB - "... five months ..."

    [1,260, 42 months, time, times and 1/2 time; AD 538 unto AD 1798]
    Daniel 7:25 KJB - "... a time and times and the dividing of time." ["wear out the saints"]
    Daniel 12:7 KJB - "... a time, times, and a half ..." ["scatter the power of the holy people"]
    Matthew 24:29 KJB - "... the tribulation of those days ..." [reference to Daniel]
    Mark 13:24 KJB - "...that tribulation ..." [reference to Daniel]
    Luke 21:24 KJB - "... the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."
    Revelation 6:11 KJB - "... killed as they were ..." [two groups, past and future, see Rev. 20:4 KJB]
    Revelation 11:2 KJB - "... given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."
    Revelation 11:3 KJB - "... a thousand two hundred and threescore days ..."
    Revelation 12:6 KJB - "... a thousand two hundred and threescore days."
    Revelation 12:14 KJB - "... a time, and times, and a half a time ..." ["persecuted", see vs 13]
    Revelation 13:5 KJB - " ... forty and two months." ["power" was given to "him" [1st [sea] Beast, Rev. 13]]

    [Great Lisbon Earthquake, AD 1755, November 1]

    Revelation 6:12 KJB - "... a great earthquake ..."

    [Great Dark Day, AD 1780, May 19 - Sun]
    Joel 2:10 KJB - "... the sun ... shall be dark ..."
    Joel 2:31 KJB - "The sun shall be turned into darkness ..."
    Matthew 24:29 KJB - "... shall the sun be darkened ..."
    Mark 13:24 KJB - "... the sun shall be darkened ..."
    Luke 21:25 KJB - "And there shall be signs in the sun ..."
    Acts 2:20 KJB - "The sun shall be turned into darkness ..."
    Revelation 6:12 KJB - "... and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair ..."

    [Great Dark Day, AD 1780, May 19 - Moon]
    Joel 2:10 KJB - "... and the moon shall be dark ..."
    Joel 2:31 KJB - "... and the moon into blood ..." [before the great and terrible day of the LORD come]
    Matthew 24:29 KJB - "... and the moon shall not give her light ..."
    Mark 13:24 KJB - "... and the moon shall not give her light,"
    Luke 21:25 KJB - "... and in the moon ..."
    Acts 2:20 KJB - "... and the moon into blood ..." [before that great and notable day of the Lord come]]
    Revelation 6:12 KJB - "... and the moon became as blood;"

    [Reign of Terror, French Revolution, AD 1793 unto AD 1797/8; 'spiritually Egypt and Sodom']
    Revelation 11:9 KJB - "... three days and an half ..."
    Revelation 11:11 KJB - "... after three days and a half ..."

    [Great Leonid Meteor Shower, AD 1833, November 13]
    Matthew 24:29 KJB - "... and the stars shall fall from heaven ..."
    Mark 13:25 KJB - "And the stars of heaven shall fall ..."
    Luke 21:25 KJB - "... and in the stars ..."
    Revelation 6:13 KJB - "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth ..."

    [Day of Atonement, AD 1844, October 22; 2,300 which began in 457 BC, Ezra 7, Daniel 9, etc ending in AD 1843/44]
    Daniel 8:14 KJB - "... Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."
    Revelation 9:15 KJB - "... prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year ..." [Rev. 14:6-7; Leviticus 23:26-32; 1 Kings 8:2; Daniel 8:13,14,26, etc]
    Revelation 10:6 KJB - "... that there should be time no longer ..." [no more prophetic time as a test]

    Luke 21:25 KJB - "... and upon earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;"

    Isaiah 13:7 KJB - "Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:"
    Isaiah 13:8 KJB - "And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrow shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth ..."
    Luke 21:26 KJB - "Men's heart's failing them from fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth ..."

    Isaiah 13:10 KJB - "For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine."
    Joel 2:10 KJB - "... and the stars shall withdraw their shining:"
    Joel 3:15 KJB - "The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining."

    [The Close of probation for mankind in receiving and assimilating the Everlasting Gospel]

    Daniel 12:1 KJB -"And at that time shall Michael stand up ... there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time ..."
    Luke 13:25 KJB - "When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without ..."
    Revelation 10:7 KJB - "In the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished ..."
    Revelation 22:11 KJB - "He that is unjust, let him be unjest still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still."

    [7 Last plagues, Wrath of God poured out]
    Job 14:13 KJB - "... thy wrath ..."
    Revelation 11:18 KJB - "... and thy wrath is come ..." [Revelation 16:2-17 KJB]

    [Final Events]

    Jeremiah 25:30 KJB - "... The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth."
    Joel 2:11 KJB - "And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army ..."
    Joel 3:16 KJB - "The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, utter his voice from Jerusalem ..." [New Jerusalem in Heaven]

    Joel 3:16 KJB - "... and the heavens and the earth shall shake ..."
    Mark 13:25 KJB - "... and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken."
    Luke 21:26 KJB - "... for the powers of heaven shall be shaken."
    Hebrews 12:26 KJB - "... I shake not the earth only, but also heaven:"

    1 Kings 18:44 KJB - "... ariseth a little cloud out of the sea, like a man's hand ..."
    Matthew 24:30 KJB - "And then shall the appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven ..."

    Revelation 6:14 KJB - "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together ..."

    Revelation 16:18 KJB - "... a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great."

    Revelation 6:14 KJB - "... and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."
    Revelation 16:20 KJB - "And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."

    Matthew 24:30 KJB - "... and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
    Mark 13:26 KJB - "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory."
    Luke 21:27 KJB - "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and glory."
    Revelation 6:15 KJB - "And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;"
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
  6. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    457 BC [begins the 2,300, and thus the portion of it, the 70 weeks [490] of KJB Daniel 9:24]
    AD 26 [begins John the Baptist, the forerunner of Jesus' first Advent]
    AD 27 [ends the 7 + 62 [69] weeks of KJB Daniel 9:25-26; Mark 1:15, and begins the final week, KJB Daniel 9:27]
    AD 31 [ends the midst of [3 ½] the final week of the 70 [490] of KJB Daniel 9:24-27, begins the 5 anti-typical months of KJB Revelation 9:5,6,10 from Pentecost, until 1833/34 with warning of Judgment to come by William Miller in AD 1833/34]
    AD 34 [ends the final week of the 70 [490] of KJB Daniel 9:24-27]
    AD 70 [end of the “generation”, within 40 years of Jesus' prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome under Titus; KJB Matthew 23:36, 24:2; Mark 13:2; Luke 19:44, 21:6]
    AD 303 [begins the 10 years tribulation of KJB Revelation 2:10]
    AD 313 [ends the 10 years tribulation of KJB Revelation 2:10]
    AD 508 [begins the 1,290 of KJB Daniel 12:11 and 1,335 of KJB Daniel 12:12]
    AD 538 [begins the 1,260, forty and two months, time, times and dividing of time, of KJB Daniel 7:25, 12:7; Revelation 11:2,3, 12:6,14, 13:5; Luke 21:24]
    AD 1755 [November 1, earthquake that shook the world; KJB Revelation 6:12; Luke 21:25, time of the 6th Seal]
    AD 1776 [Beast out of the earth with two horns like a Lamb [Church without a pope, and State without a King, Protestantism, Republicanism], begins to arise with the aide of France, to become the USA, KJB Revelation 13:11]
    AD 1780 [May 19, dark day, sun and moon, KJB Revelation 6:12; Luke 21:25, time of the 6th Seal]
    AD 1793 [begins the 3 ½ years of KJB Revelation 11:9,11, in France]
    AD 1797 [ends the 3 ½ years of KJB Revelation 11:9,11, in France, see also Revelation 11:13, in the political upheaval of France, 1/10 of the 10 horns of KJB Daniel 7:7]
    AD 1798 [ends the 1,290 and 1,260, ending in the beginning of the time of the end [AD 1798 – 1844], and France removed from helping USA]
    AD 1833 [November 13th, stars falling; KJB Luke 21:25; Revelation 6:13, time of the 6th Seal]
    AD 1833/4 [ends the 5th Trumpet of KJB Revelation 9:5,6,10 in the Feast of Trumpets, 5 anti-typical months from Pentecost in AD 31.]
    AD 1842-1844 [First and Second Angels messages go forward, KJB Revelation 14:6-8 and Midnight Cry of Matthew 25:6, in first phase]
    AD 1844 [ends the 1,335 and 2,300, ending in the ending of the time of the end [AD 1798 – 1844], the “daily” becomes the “yearly”, and 10 years after Feast of Trumpets [1833/34] is now October 22 1844, the Day of Atonement begins; Leviticus 16 & 23; Revelation 14:7, thus given also as the hour [of His judgment, KJB Revelation 14:6-7], day [10th day, Day of Atonement; KJB Leviticus 23:26-32], month [7th month, Ethanim; KJB Leviticus 23:27; 1 Kings 8:2], year [KJB Daniel 8:14, 12:12] in Revelation 9's the sixth Trumpet introduction [KJB Revelation 9:13-15]]
    AD 1844 [Third Angels Message goes forward; KJB Revelation 14:9-12]
    AD 1880's-1888 [first siege, as in the days of Cestius of Rome, Sunday laws begin to be passed and persecution was happening, Blair Bill almost goes through, but is suddenly halted]
    AD 1989 [Holy Alliance - USA [2nd Beast of KJB Revelation 13] teams with Vatican/Papacy [First Beast of KJB Revelation 13] to help bring down USSR]
    AD 1990 [the USA, the sole remaining Super-power, “all the power”, “power over” the nations, as per KJB Revelation 13:2,3,7,12,16]
    AD 1995 [Christian coalition seeking to gain Roman support]
    AD 1998
    AD 1999
    [Catholics/Lutherans reach agreement]
    AD 2001 [tower fell 9/11, just as type foretold, KJB Luke 13:4]
    AD 2004 [3rd Event; Sunday being promoted more and more; Roman Catholicism joins Christian Coalition]
    AD 2005 [4th Event; Leading Protestant Churches unite on common doctrines; KJB Revelation 13:11,12,14 “they should make an image to the beast” - Catholic Universal, One World Church; see KJB Revelation 13:7,8, “war” [state], “worship” [church]]
    AD 2008 [5th Event; National/International money crisis truly begins, KJB Luke 12:25, “with perplexity”, which will become worldwide and in the church, KJB Genesis 47:13,15; effecting a new economic system to come, and buying and selling effected eventually, KJB Revelation 13:7; Daniel 11:43]
    AD 2010
    AD 2011
    AD 2013
    [July 4th; Francis I [the Jesuit], Benedict XVI [Master of the Office of the Inquisition] invoke the weapon of war, just as type foretold, Caiaphas and Annas, KJB Luke 3:2, about to finish the King of the South off [6th Head, the Beast from the bottomless pit of KJB Revelation 11], Secular Humanism/Atheism as ruling power, and the false reliance of Israel, to turn over into the Healing of the deadly wound of the First Beast of Revelation 13:1, when persecution arises in the USA]
    AD 2015 [Sept. 22-27th, Francis I [the Jesuit] speaks at Washington D.C., which sits between Mary-land and Virgin-ia]
    AD 2016-2017 [Donald Trump is elected President of the USA, and is "prayed" over by the Evangelical apostasy, and begins to give power back to churches to speak about political matters in pulpit; repeals the Johnson Amendment, church and state re-uniting more closely]

    Everything is happening according to the prophetic times/events foretold, in their proper order.
     
  7. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    If you are referring to Daniel 12:1; Luke 13:25, that has yet to come, and come shortly it does:

    Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

    Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

    Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

    Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

    Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

    Rev_22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​
     
  8. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    @ReChoired
    @Robert Gwin

    Well brothers, you have effectually derailed the subject of @soul man's thread: by insisting on following your own agenda's at the expense of the subject in hand. Ignoring the attempts by @soul man in replies #8 & #10 to prevent you doing so. The subject is:- 'The Death Burial Resurrection And Ascension By Christ In A Saint'.

    :(
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
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  9. soul man

    soul man Well-Known Member

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    I hear you but that happens when you get in a subject and it just takes off in different direction. I have done it not intentional just happens sometimes and some of the threads don't get alot of activity so let them land where they may it's okay.
     
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  10. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    If you do not know what Christ Jesus is doing in Heaven right now, you have no idea what He is doing in the person, or what that person is supposed to be doing for Him (case in point, the WTS (Robert) and their misunderstanding, thus errors in theology and life, as also your own apart from them). Go back and read my posts with that in mind giving me the charity required to address that. Thank you.
     
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  11. soul man

    soul man Well-Known Member

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    I give the thump up to debates. Debates ate healthy in my opinion. Peolpe can give their side of what they know and understand, and that is healthy. Believers need to speak. They need to speak what they know. It keeps them sharp when debating in the world. Like Paul said 'he was always ready.' He did nit have to work up something, it was already there. And the thread thing, some get upset some when their thread goes a different direction. It doesnt bother me be cause one thing always leads to something else and you just roll with it. But I understand both sides and the moderators have a decision in the matter as well. That is online forums but they are a great fellowship and out reach.
     
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  12. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Each and every one of the signs Jesus gave may have occurred at one time or other. That is the reason that 2 Pet 3:3,4 was put into the Bible. Those signs would be prevalent during one generation RE. The real truth is, that the great tribulation Jesus referred to has not yet happened, as it will take the earth to the point of extinction, perhaps you overlooked that Mat 24:22. That has only happened once prior to Jesus saying it, therefore he was not referring to that one, but he did compare it to it. Jesus has not returned either, he will return at the fulfillment of that verse, to save the chosen ones. If you honestly think about it, I think you will realize that what I say about it is accurate.
     
  13. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    Good attitude. Just as Jesus would address an error or question (not ignore it) and then move back to topic (Luke 10; Lawyer), or address the error by the topic, see Woman at the well (John 4), as a for instance of that.
     
  14. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    I know what's in the Bible. One of the most ridiculous terms a believer can use. If the scriptures are the mind of God who can know what is written. Who among us can say I know what is in the Bible.

    Luke disagrees:

    It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

    You also say several things with absolute authority of what's in the Bible.

    Such as: all in Adam died.

    For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

    Physical death, not death of the old man.

    When Jesus dies all died in Christ on the cross

    There are no dead unbelievers in Christ, not in His body, nor in the grave.

    So, this changing of Scripture cannot be used to support a doctrine on the First resurrection. And anyone who attempts to teach the 1st resurrection has already occured for the dead in Christ, they must answer Paul:

    Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

    At least in this matter I'm think gin you are prove your main point about not knowing what is in the Bible.

    Also, if everyone's 'own understanding' about Scripture is different from others and ought be honored as such?, then how are there false teachers of Scripture, that steal and kill and destroy the sheep, since they are just giving their own understanding about it?
     
  15. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    So what is it the believer goes on into?

    Believers go on to, not into, perfection. To do so requires moving on from the 1st principles of Christ, which means we must start there: repenting from dead works of sin and having faith toward God... and resurrection of the dead.

    Scripture is not saying that the resurrection of the dead in Christ has past, and we go on now from there. But rather the fact of there being a resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment is a 1st principle to believe.

    A 'going on' after mortifying the deeds of the body, would be working out the inward sins of the mind and speech:

    But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds. (Col 3)

    And then finally there would be ridding ourselves of all our own works of righteousness, and entering into His rest, even as God did after His own works were done.

    That would be when all we do is from Christ living in us, and are able to say, don't thank me, nor applaud me, but rather give thanks to Jesus in and through me, of it is not I that has done good, but Christ that lives in me that does the good.

    This can never come to pass in the believer's life, until first things first: repentance from deeds of the flesh, renewing of the mind in Christ, and putting off all sins of speech and one's own works of righteousness.

    The last one is the rarest, because sincere believers seeking His righteousness first, many times don't know the difference from our righteousness and rules, that we live by, and that of Christ and His rule of doctrine, for all to live by.

    We must learn to live and let live within the rule of Christ, and not to judge others by our own household rules.
     
  16. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    The real truth is, that the great tribulation Jesus referred to has not yet happened

    I would call it the 'last' great tribulation on earth at His returning, where He will have dominion over all the earth, where waring and raiding and looting and persecuting etc... will be instantly put down, and to death if necessary.

    There have been many great tribulations on earth, including that of the flood. And through much tribulation do we enter the kingdom of God.

    Anyone going through great tribulation in their own life cares not one bit if it involves the rest of the world. That great tribulation is greatest in life to them.

    In this way we are indeed a world to ourselves.
     
  17. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Yes sir, for sure. I agree it will be very clear to everyone as it will take us to the point of extinction, as the Bible stated we would become extinct if Jesus don't step in on the count of the chosen ones.
     
  18. soul man

    soul man Well-Known Member

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    Sure Luke had perfect understanding :) no such thing as perfect unless you are talking about knowing a little. Listen when you can speak and it stood - command and it was. No brother no knowing all the mind of God , its not necessary. Jsing

    The necessary things of God to a believer is what we are after. It is the life here and then that will come out of that. We already see the glory of God - by all creation we see according to the scriptures.
     
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