God?
Stan has been like this from Post one. Sorted, ignore function. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, hows the serenity.
The Doctrine of Salvation
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Stan has been like this from Post one. Sorted, ignore function. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, hows the serenity.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
The Bible's plan of salvation is so well underwritten, that I can stand up here
on the world wide web and testify, in all sincerity and a good conscience,
that I am going to heaven and not even God can stop me now.
How is that possible? It's possible because my safety is based upon
unconditional promises rather than upon personal performance.
This is not without precedence. When God passed ownership of the land of
Palestine to Abraham, He covenanted it to him on the basis of a promise
rather than the old boy's performance.
†. Gal 3:17-18 . . And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and
thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by
God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the
inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to
Abraham as a promise.
The so-called Palestinian Covenant is an unconditional covenant. In other
words: no matter what Yhvh's people do now, they will never lose either
deed nor title to that land. They may get evicted from the land now and
then; but they will never lose possession of it because their possession is
based upon an unconditional promise rather than upon their personal
performance.
So: what am I saying? I'm saying that once the Bible's God makes an
unconditional promise, He's stuck with making good on that promise come
hell or high water because He could never justify withdrawing it without
seriously damaging His reputation as a person of integrity who can be
counted upon to never lie and/or make a promise He can't be trusted to
keep.
Where are all these unconditional promises located? Well; the first one is
located in the book of Genesis.
†. Gen 12:3 . . in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
And a pretty good number of additional promises are interspersed
throughout the gospel of John; beginning with this one:
†. John 3:14-17 . . As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so
must the Son of Man be lifted up; that whoever believes in him may have
eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He donated His only begotten
son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God didn't send His son into the world to condemn the world, but that
the world should be spared through him.
The incident to which that statement refers is recorded at Num 21:5-9.
Yhvh's the people became weary of eating manna all the time at every meal.
But instead of courteously, and diplomatically, petitioning their Lord and
Master for a different diet, they became hostile and confrontational, angrily
demanding better food. In reply; The Lord sent a swarm of poisonous vipers
among them; which began biting and killing people; and every bite was
100% fatal, no exceptions. Then the people realized their mistake and asked
Moses to intercede. In reply; The Lord instructed Moses to fashion an effigy
of the vipers and hoist it up on a pole in plain view so that everyone dying
from venom could look to the effigy for relief.
The only act of faith the snakebite victims had to perform was just "look to"
the serpent's effigy and they would be cured. You know what it means to
look to something? It means to fully depend upon it. Moses hoisted the
effigy up on a pole high enough where everyone could see it, and all in the
world snakebite victims had to do was find a spot where they could see it.
The snake-bitten Jews' only hope of escape was that serpentary effigy; there
was no other God-given options . Not synagogue, not yeshiva, not love, not
charity, not piety, not the Sabbath, not morality, not tithing, not
commandments, not holy days of obligation, not fasting, not self denial, not
even one's own personal religious affiliation nor anything else one might
associate with salvation would do-- not even prayers, because that effigy
was it-- as Long John Silver would say: join or hang, that's about the lay of it.
Now apply that incident to Christ's crucifixion and you've got a pretty good
idea of just how crucial to one's safety the cross really is.
†. John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe
in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for
their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
Standing on the promises of Christ my king;
Through eternal ages let his praises ring.
Glory in the highest I will shout and sing;
Standing on the promises of God.
Standing on the promises that cannot fail
When the howling storms of doubt and fear assail.
By the living word of God I shall prevail;
Standing on the promises of God.
Cliff
/
I think you will finds this is actually quite biblically sound. Other wsie you may need to begin to explain "how wrong it is" Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
PS: The titanic was skuttled on purpose.
To all here, beware the leaven (doctrine) of the Pharisees, Sadducees and Episkopos,
Scripture is not open to interpretation. Thank the Good Lord, that's why its so much fun being in places like this watching people try to interpret it. Tell me what's wrong with "my" view then Cliff, I'm all ears.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
Had you read the entire post instead of stopping with the first sentence, you
would have readily seen that my doctrine of salvation gives people something
positive to look forward to; unlike doctrines that leave people wondering what
to expect.
Cliff
/
Give the people what they want I guess!
Isa_51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.
Let's look at what Paul tells us in [ Rom. 8: 24 ] this "hope" of salvation that St.Paul writes about is unnecessary if salvation is guaranteed . If we are guaranteed salvation, then why hope ?
Exactly! We are guaranteed an entrance into eternal life and salvation here and now through a receiving of the gift of God....but the everlasting nature of these is contingent upon our CONTINUING faithfulness to God and the ongoing training of God to bring about HIS will in us.
Hi neophyte,
The hope of salvation is not 'salvation'. The hope of salvation is the resurrection of our bodies to everlasting life.
Daniel 12:2
Acts 26:6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: 7 Unto which [promise] our twelve tribes, instantly serving [God] day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. 8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?
The hope of salvation is not 'salvation'. The hope of salvation is the resurrection of our bodies to everlasting life.
Daniel 12:2
Acts 26:6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: 7 Unto which [promise] our twelve tribes, instantly serving [God] day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. 8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?
As a Catholic I go with how the Church interprets salvation, because the Catholic Church has interpreted Holy Scripture direct from Jesus to His apostles and they to their successors on down to us.
As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5-8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9-10, 1 Cor. 3:12-15). Like the apostle Paul, I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11-13).Any other way is man's way , not God's Way. Protestantism has drumed up a myriad of different ways of being saved, and not a one of them the Bible way. Get with the program that Jesus left for all of us.
As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5-8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9-10, 1 Cor. 3:12-15). Like the apostle Paul, I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11-13).
No Catholic should grandstand on the practice of the RC denomination. How do you get torturing people for confessions before burning them???
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
The "hope" depicted in Rom 8:23-24 is in reference to one's anticipation of a
new body. In other words: I have eternal life now; my body will have eternal
life later.
†. John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe
in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for
their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
Cliff
/
The "hope" depicted in Rom 8:23-24 is in reference to one's anticipation of a
new body. In other words: I have eternal life now; my body will have eternal
life later.
†. John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe
in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for
their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
Cliff
/
After patient endurance in steadfast expectation, the full harvest of the Spirit's presence will be realized. On earth believers enjoy the firstfruilts, i.e. the Spirit, is a guarantee of the total liberation of their bodies from the influence of the rebellious old self [ 23 ] The New American Bible
Continue on to Rom. 8: 25 - But if we hope for what we do not see , we wait with endurance.
John 5:24- yes we can be condemned for our unrepentant sin { John 20:23 ]
{ Proverbs 28: 13 ] and [ 2nd. Cor. 2: 10 ]
Continue on to Rom. 8: 25 - But if we hope for what we do not see , we wait with endurance.
John 5:24- yes we can be condemned for our unrepentant sin
{ Proverbs 28: 13 ] and [ 2nd. Cor. 2: 10 ]
Hi neophyte,
Please, is this a quote from the New American Bible?
If so, where does it say either 'on earth believers enjoy the firstfruits', or, 'ie the Spirit, is a guarantee of the total liberation of their bodies from the influence of the rebellious old self'?
Many thanks.
Please, is this a quote from the New American Bible?
If so, where does it say either 'on earth believers enjoy the firstfruits', or, 'ie the Spirit, is a guarantee of the total liberation of their bodies from the influence of the rebellious old self'?
Many thanks.
dragonfly, it is found in the foot-notes on page 232 in the Book of Romans [ Rom. 8;23 ] The New American Bible
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