THE ELECT

[FaithWillDo]

This does not say we get promises made to the fathers of Israel

PS you didnt really think this would not evolve into a lengthy discussion when you keep making these beliefs did you? Just kidding ....I dont mind

Dear Doug,
The "fathers" are the same fathers who are presented in Hebrews chapter 11. They are the OT faithful who are also Elect. They will be made perfect (Latter Rain & judgment/conversion) upon their resurrection:

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Salvation is being converted and becoming like Christ. Salvation and reigning with Christ are the promises that the OT faithful did not receive before they died. The NT Elect will receive these promises before they die. They are made perfect when they are spiritually converted. During their time of judgment, they reign with Christ (Rev 19:11:19). They will reign a second time ("twice told" Ecc 6:6) with Christ in the final age to bring in the full harvest of mankind. In this way, the nations of the earth will be blessed by the heirs of Abraham.

Also notice what verse 18-19 says about the seed of Abraham:

Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed (Christ) be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him (Christ the seed) up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

When the Elect are converted, they are made perfect and become joint heirs of Abraham with Christ.

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

[Rom 8:9 KJV] 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If as you say Christ gives the Spirit to all then how does this verse say that they without the Spirit are not his....there are plainly those not saved

Doug,
You are not understanding Christ's plan of saving the world. In this age, Christ in only saving those individuals who were chosen from the foundation of the world to be the heirs of Abraham. They are also said to be Christ's bride and the first fruits of Christ's harvest of mankind. In the final age, the balance of mankind will be blessed by Christ and the heirs/bride.

The Feast of Weeks represents the harvest that is now taking place. The Feast of Ingathering represents the final harvest at year's end (final age).

Exo 34:22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

The Feast of Ingathering is where Christ will make this call to the "lost' in the final age:

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, if any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

This same call is shown in Revelation chapter 22 with the addition of the Bride/heirs/first fruits:

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

It is through the heirs of Abraham that all the nations of the earth will be blessed.

You are blind as to how Christ's completes the mission His Father gave Him (1John 4:14). You see Christ as loving only a small portion of this world. But Christ loves everyone and will save everyone. He has the power and the "will" to do it.

You can't accept that Christ will save everyone because you cling to a false belief about man's supposed free will ability. This belief is a deception from Satan. Until you can come out of this deception, you will continue mixing the Old Wine with the New Wine which makes you unfaithful. When your time comes, Christ will open your eyes to this knowledge. You must wait on the Lord to act.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

What verse are you saying Christ is heir to Abraham.

Doug,
I answered this question in my earlier posts.
Joe

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Proverbs 16:4
The LORD has made everything for His purpose—even the wicked for the day of disaster.


Isaiah 55:8–9; Matthew 11:27; John 6:44; Romans 8:29–30; Ephesians 2:1; Philippians 2:12–13

 

[Hey You!]

I am afraid I may disappoint you......I think God choses how we will be saved NOT who will be.......God chose Isaac thru whom Christ would come but that doesnt mean he chooses us personally....he chose us to be saved thru the redemption in Christ thru faith

That is a little disappointing; it's not bad though...

Why do you think this, when Romans 9 says God Chooses despite our Willing or our Running? It's easy to show Christians the irony of God Electing people for Service, apart from their Born Again Will; but then they go on to say the Fallen Will of the Lost, can Will and Run for Election. Why is there Will in the greater Choice to be Saved, but not in the Lesser Choice to Serve God?

 

[Doug]

Dear Doug,
I presented you those verses. Christ is the seed who is the heir and those who are "in Christ" become joint heirs with Him.
Joe

Doug,
Christ is "the" heir of Abraham and when we are "in Christ", we, too, become heirs of Abraham (joint heirs with Christ).

2Cor 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

I dont see a verse saying Christ is heir to Abraham

 

[Doug]

Christ in only saving those individuals who were chosen from the foundation of the world to be the heirs of Abraham.

[Rev 22:17 KJV] 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

[Doug]

That is a little disappointing; it's not bad though...

Why do you think this, when Romans 9 says God Chooses despite our Willing or our Running? It's easy to show Christians the irony of God Electing people for Service, apart from their Born Again Will; but then they go on to say the Fallen Will of the Lost, can Will and Run for Election. Why is there Will in the greater Choice to be Saved, but not in the Lesser Choice to Serve God?

Sorry but I dont know how to answer this

 

[Doug]

Why is there Will in the greater Choice to be Saved, but not in the Lesser Choice to Serve God?

[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

I thought of this verse that shows we have will to do what pleases him........does this apply to your post?

 

[FaithWillDo]

Doug,
Christ is "the" heir of Abraham and when we are "in Christ", we, too, become heirs of Abraham (joint heirs with Christ).

2Cor 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

I dont see a verse saying Christ is heir to Abraham

Dear Doug,

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.

As the verse above says, Christ is the seed and heir of the promises made to Abraham.

When an Elect person is converted, they become a spiritual descendant of Abraham (a spiritual Jew) and joint heir with Christ because they are in the seed (Christ):

Rom 8:17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

Eph 1:11 In whom (in Christ) also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

[Rev 22:17 KJV] 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Doug,
In this present age, Christ is only saving the Elect who will be joint heirs with Him. The inheritance that they will receive is having life during the final age where they will reign with Christ over the earth.

Tit 3:7 that having been declared righteous by His grace, heirs we may become according to the hope of life age-during.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into age-during punishment: but the righteous into life age-during.

At the end of the final age, Christ and the Elect will make the call to come and drink of the Holy Spirit. At this time, the balance of mankind will be saved. However, they will not be heirs and will not receive the rewards that the Elect will receive - but they will still be saved:

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he (the Elect/heirs) shall receive a reward (inheritance of reign with Christ in the final age). 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss (no inheritance of reigning with Christ): but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Joe

 

[Doug]

Tit 3:7 that having been declared righteous by His grace, heirs we may become according to the hope of life age-during.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into age-during punishment: but the righteous into life age-during.

What translations are these from? They arent coherent

 

[Hey You!]

[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

I thought of this verse that shows we have will to do what pleases him........does this apply to your post?

It does. We agree more than it appears; we have a Freed Will; a Will that God Worked in Us to free...

I'll speak up later...

 

[FaithWillDo]

What translations are these from? They arent coherent

Dear Doug,
YLT

The Greek word "aion" means an age of time. The Greek word "aionios" is its adjective form and means pertaining to the age/age-during/happening during the age. Neither word should be translated as eternal/everlasting/forever. However, most translations will translate these words that way so as to support the false doctrine of Hell.

Joe

 

[Doug]

Dear Doug,
YLT

The Greek word "aion" means an age of time. The Greek word "aionios" is its adjective form and means pertaining to the age/age-during/happening during the age. Neither word should be translated as eternal/everlasting/forever. However, most translations will translate these words that way so as to support the false doctrine of Hell.

Joe

thanks