The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

[justbyfaith]

Jesus says the unforgivable sin can never be forgiven .. but this is not the question .. nor is your silly question the question.

The question is - what is the unforgivable sin ... it is not "rejecting Jesus" that would be a sin against Jesus .. which Jesus explicitly says can be forgiven.

So Wrong Answer ... what is the right answer ? How does one sin against a spirit ?

Hint ... Jesus is the Logos .. emissary between man and God - who speaks God's word through the Holy Spirit.

The sin against the holy spirit is to put words into God's mouth .. usurping the position of Jesus .. blaspheming the holy spirit - which is what you do when you claim teachings which are not from Jesus .. are from Jesus.

That is blasphamy of the the good Sophia.

So, if someone does this, and blasphemes the HS according to your definition...and then comes to Jesus seeking forgiveness...will He in any wise cast them out (see John 6:37)?

 

[justbyfaith]

The question is - what is the unforgivable sin ... it is not "rejecting Jesus" that would be a sin against Jesus .. which Jesus explicitly says can be forgiven.

It is rejecting the testimony of the Holy Spirit as He attempts to convict you and draw you to Jesus...

 

[BarneyFife]

That's a lie from the pit of hell.

The Holy Spirit dwells within believers...and therefore He works through believers...so if a believer says something that convicts another of sin, it is preposterous to say that they have committed the unpardonable sin.

I also thought you were sharper than this...

Good thing that's not what I said. If I presume the prerogative of the Holy Ghost by undertaking my own conviction of sin, righteousness, and judgment, then I am committing the unpardonable sin, and will eventually grieve Him away. No third party is involved. Give me a break. You're just accustomed to assuming the worst of people's remarks.

 

[amigo de christo]

It is rejecting the testimony of the Holy Spirit as He attempts to convict you and draw you to Jesus...

Read mark my friend . I have heard that line from many as OSAS teacher .
Read mark if you want the actual true definition .
However , yeah if folks reject JESUS , yeah they damned all right . that part is a fact .

 

[BarneyFife]

I think I'm ready to take a break from you straw man fanatics and evil surmisers.

 

[amigo de christo]

well, i guess ol barney got misunderstood .
But still , barney if you want the biblical definition . go read mark chapter three . Its the only sin i ever heard JESUS
say that one will be never forgiven for . Just read it . And let all that has breath , PRAISE the GLORIOUS KING JESUS

 

[justbyfaith]

Good thing that's not what I said.

Care to reiterate your statement to avoid the confusion that the unclarity of your words provided?

 

[justbyfaith]

Good thing that's not what I said. If I presume the prerogative of the Holy Ghost by undertaking my own conviction of sin, righteousness, and judgment, then I am committing the unpardonable sin, and will eventually grieve Him away. No third party is involved. Give me a break. You're just accustomed to assuming the worst of people's remarks.

What do you say to this scripture then?

Pro 20:27, The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

So, apparently, it's still a lie from the pit of hell...

 

[ChristisGod]

Telling others what you believe they believe or don't believe makes you look foolish. You shouldn't do that. You don't have a clue as to my basic belief system. And you sure don't know my interpretation of any given passage. People interpret Bible texts differently and to say that one is in a state of unbelief because of that is just plain ignorant and often hurtful. Kind of the opposite of what Christians are supposed to act like, you know?

If you believe eternal life can be lost then you don't believe in eternal life. Its just that simple.

 

[ChristisGod]

Care to reiterate your statement to avoid the confusion that the unclarity of your words provided?

bingo

 

[ChristisGod]

2Co 11:6, But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.

Jesus was all lovey dovey in Matthew 23 lol

 

[BarneyFife]

What do you say to this scripture then?

Pro 20:27, The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

So, apparently, it's still a lie from the pit of hell...

You accuse me of employing a lie from the pit of hell while I "like" your post on the definition of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. IOW, I agree with you. I don't know what to say and I don'

Jesus was all lovey dovey in Matthew 23 lol

Everything's a joke.

 

[Spurgeon's Girl]

This thread is needed because eternal security advocates tend to ignore relevant biblical contexts and verse clusters. The thread will initially focus on the 2nd half of the first century (Revelation and then Hebrews) and then shift to Paul and finally to Jesus. In the process, it will be demonstrated that the election and perseverance texts cited by the OSAS advocates are actually irrelevant to the issue. To avoid chaotic discussion please follow my lead and focus your remarks on the biblical book currently under discussion.

1. THE BOOK OF REVELATION

The case against OSAS in Revelation is clearcut and decisive.

“If you conquer, you will be clothed like them in white robes and I will not erase your name from the Book of Life (3:6).”

The threat of erasure implies that the church of Sardis already has their names written in the Book of Life! To prevent the loss of their salvation, they must “conquer,” that is, they must heed the Lord's threat: “Remember then what you have received and heard; obey it and repent. If you do not wake up, I will come like a thief (3:3).” These Christians must persevere in their faith like “those who have not soiled their garments (3:4).”

In the letter to the church of Smyrna the need to “conquer” is again stressed as the way to avoid losing one's salvation: “Whoever conquers will not be harmed by the second death (2:11).” And how can Christians conquer? “Be faithful until death and I will give you the crown of life (3:10).” Again, the implication is that if they are not faithful, their names that are already written in the Book of Life will be erased and they will forfeit “the crown of life.” Remember, the Greek word for “faith” also means “faithful.”

How about these verses:

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning (James 1:17).


But, God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life (Romans 5:8-10).


And, this is the promise that He hath promised us, even eternal life (1 John 2:25).


And, for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance (Hebrews 9:15).


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life” (John 6:47).


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).


“Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal” (Matthew 25:45-46).


That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:15-16).


Then said Jesus unto the twelve, “Will ye also go away?” Then Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life” (John 6:67-68).


These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (John 17:1-3).


Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation m received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God (1 Peter 1:18-21).


I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever; nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past (Ecclesiastes 3:14-15).


And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose (Romans 8:28).


“For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. How think ye? If a man have a hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And, if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish” (Matthew 18:11-14).


“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And, I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one” (John 10:27-30).


“And, this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” (John 6:39).


“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition [Judas]; that the scripture might be fulfilled” (John 17:12).

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not (1 John 5:18).


“But, if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But, when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils” (Luke 11:20-22).


Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that in you, than he that is in the world
(1 John 4:4).


There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it (1 Corinthians 10:13).



“For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect” (Matthew 24:24).



They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us (1 John 2:19).


Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:2-6).



And, the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen (2 Timothy 4:18).


Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen (Jude 24-25).


The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD ; and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand. I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed (Psalm 37:23-26).


And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24).


“Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat; but I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not” (Luke 22:31).

 

[BloodBought 1953]

How disgusting! I pray your behavior is not indicative of your standing with God.

My “ standing” with God could not be better.....I REST in the Gospel Of Grace and I couldn’t go to hell if I wanted to.....don’t you just hate that?

 

[Mr C]

This thread is needed because eternal security advocates tend to ignore relevant biblical contexts and verse clusters. The thread will initially focus on the 2nd half of the first century (Revelation and then Hebrews) and then shift to Paul and finally to Jesus. In the process, it will be demonstrated that the election and perseverance texts cited by the OSAS advocates are actually irrelevant to the issue. To avoid chaotic discussion please follow my lead and focus your remarks on the biblical book currently under discussion.

1. THE BOOK OF REVELATION

The case against OSAS in Revelation is clearcut and decisive.

“If you conquer, you will be clothed like them in white robes and I will not erase your name from the Book of Life (3:6).”

The threat of erasure implies that the church of Sardis already has their names written in the Book of Life! To prevent the loss of their salvation, they must “conquer,” that is, they must heed the Lord's threat: “Remember then what you have received and heard; obey it and repent. If you do not wake up, I will come like a thief (3:3).” These Christians must persevere in their faith like “those who have not soiled their garments (3:4).”

In the letter to the church of Smyrna the need to “conquer” is again stressed as the way to avoid losing one's salvation: “Whoever conquers will not be harmed by the second death (2:11).” And how can Christians conquer? “Be faithful until death and I will give you the crown of life (3:10).” Again, the implication is that if they are not faithful, their names that are already written in the Book of Life will be erased and they will forfeit “the crown of life.” Remember, the Greek word for “faith” also means “faithful.”

 

[Mr C]

How about these verses:

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning (James 1:17).


But, God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life (Romans 5:8-10).


And, this is the promise that He hath promised us, even eternal life (1 John 2:25).


And, for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance (Hebrews 9:15).


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life” (John 6:47).


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).


“Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal” (Matthew 25:45-46).


That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:15-16).


Then said Jesus unto the twelve, “Will ye also go away?” Then Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life” (John 6:67-68).


These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (John 17:1-3).


Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation m received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God (1 Peter 1:18-21).


I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever; nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past (Ecclesiastes 3:14-15).


And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose (Romans 8:28).


“For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. How think ye? If a man have a hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And, if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish” (Matthew 18:11-14).


“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And, I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one” (John 10:27-30).


“And, this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” (John 6:39).


“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition [Judas]; that the scripture might be fulfilled” (John 17:12).

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not (1 John 5:18).


“But, if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But, when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils” (Luke 11:20-22).


Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that in you, than he that is in the world
(1 John 4:4).


There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it (1 Corinthians 10:13).



“For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect” (Matthew 24:24).



They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us (1 John 2:19).


Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:2-6).



And, the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen (2 Timothy 4:18).


Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen (Jude 24-25).


The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD ; and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand. I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed (Psalm 37:23-26).


And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24).


“Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat; but I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not” (Luke 22:31).

Some were disinherited by the Lord during the OT times.

Nu 14:12 I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they.

Some in the NT were saved and then lost (Luke 15) (2Peter 2:20-22) (Gal.6:1,2) (2Tim. 2:17,17) (Heb.10:26-31) (Acts 8:13-24) (Acts 5) (Mt.18:15-17).

 

[Mr C]

My “ standing” with God could not be better.....I REST in the Gospel Of Grace and I couldn’t go to hell if I wanted to.....don’t you just hate that?

The very small word "IF" in the NT disagrees with you. (upon the condition that)

Noah was saved by grace (Gen. 6:8).

By doing all the Lord commanded (Gen. 6:22).

What "IF" Noah had not done all the Lord commanded?

It is the same in the NT covenant.

Mt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
(Mt. 28:18-20)

The Ephesians were saved by grace by being baptized twice in water according to (Acts 19:1-6). Notice also (Mark 16:15,16) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 22:16).

In (Jn 15;6) a branch first lives and withers (and dies) and is burned.

Note Simon in (Acts 8:13-24). He was became a Christian and then was told by Peter he was going to perish if he did not repent and pray for forgiveness. One has no right to prayer unless he is a child of God (a Christian) according to (Jn 9:31) and (Eph.1:3). That is why the sinners prayer is wrong and many are deceived by it.


Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. (Ps. 119:160)


Read more here.
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[Eternally Grateful]

I believe that he is pointing to the parable of the judgment of the sheep and the goats.

I just want to see him back up his words, where Jesus declaired works are required to be saved

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Matt 7:12 "in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

This is the "Will of God" Jesus is speaking of in Matt 7:

“21)Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven"

and in case there was any confusion - it the doers and not the hearers that enter.
"24)Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand

Yep

I see two messages that speak of who are saved vs those who are not, they are descriptive verses not prescriptive verses

again, where is a passage that says if you want to get to heaven do works

where did Jesus say whoever believes and does works has eternal life, will live forever, never die, has rivers of living water flowing to eternal life?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You were the one that thought "Works" meant "Going to Work" LOL .. lets settle down on the self aggrandization.

Oh boy you can not even get this right,