The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

[Ferris Bueller]

Can someone come to a living faith while on their deathbed, so that there are no subsequent works to show for their faith?

Haven't we discussed this, lol?

 

[justbyfaith]

You get justified by faith alone, but faith that is alone won't save you from the lake of fire. Because faith that is alone is not justifying faith. It is the kind of faith demons have.

A living and saving faith is a faith that receives Jesus as Lord and not just as Saviour. So yes, the right kind of faith is most often not alone; it includes submission to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

However, this submission / surrender, is not a work; it is something that produces works.

And again, works do not save a man (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5 (kjv), Romans 11:5-6).

Haven't we discussed this, lol?

of course; but the question proves my point quite nicely.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You go on telling yourself that fib .. that some dude who never met Jesus .. nor knows anything about his life .. never became a Christian until years after the death of our lord .. OR .. so we accept the words of our Lord ..

God refers to Paul as “ My Chosen Vessel”...... The Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 That Saves a person, this side of the Cross was given to Paul by Jesus Personally.... “Nor was it Given to me by MAN “
It was “ Given to me to reveal the mysteries of God, kept secret by Him from the Beginning...”
Believe as you wish.....ignore all of the plain evidence that shows that when Paul was talking — it was Jesus talking through him.....Jesus said to “follow Paul as he follows Christ”....I’ll go with that...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

It was in fact meant for us to keep.

Paraphrasing here......If God came up with a set of Laws that could save anybody— “ Christ is Dead in Vain...”

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Amen (Galatians 1:12).



Actually, Peter said that.



Actually, Jesus gave the Sermon on the Mount to His disciples who followed Him up to the mountain...and the scribes and Pharisees were not committed enough to be among this group.



Emphasis on the word "was".

Because it is only true in the past tense (as concerning before the Cross) that the standard of perfection "was" impossible to attain.

Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.



He does the heavy lifting when He lives His life in us and through us (Galatians 2:20, Romans 5:19);

So that the life that is lived by us is a perfect life for as long as we do not take our lives back from Him and begin again to live them ourselves.



It was in fact meant for us to keep.



I don't own a house...and my wife has a say in it as to whether I would give you my car. The title deed is in her name.



It has even happened to me before, where someone has struck me on the cheek and I offered to him the other one; not once, but twice.

In both instances, the conviction of the Holy Ghost came upon that person and they did not strike a second time.

Newbies......check out these Biblical Truths and get off on the right foot in your Christian Walk..... “ By The Works Of The Law—- NO MAN will be Justified “............” Christ is the END OF THE LAW for Righteousness””........”The JUST shall LIVE by Faith !”..........Jesus left is with just TWO LAWS—- “ BELIEVE and LOVE”......


Here are 37 scriptures that prove that Christians are not under the law!

Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)

If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)

It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)

Well there you have it… 37 scriptures that make a very convincing arguement.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

If you just think about it there is more than one way to interpret this.

Jesus Christ spent every day of His human life getting to know His Father better. Paul did not have the same experience. Paul knew Christ and the Father as well as he was able to. It is not sensible to believe that Paul knew God as well as Christ knew His Father. This seems so obvious to me. And yet, people will invariably run to the book of Romans or Galatians to defend their favorite points of doctrine. I believe it is a lazy way of defending faith. I don't care if I am perceived as being anti-Pauline. It wouldn't be the 1st time and I definitely don't expect it to be the last.

Bible religion is multi-faceted and paradoxical as well as simple. There are many troubling or difficult passages to be dealt with, which most forum participants do by simply taking a side and claiming other texts which seem to contradict the side taken don't really mean what they say. I don't care to give an example. This can be found easily in nearly every thread. I don't like legwork. I know missionaries in Malaysia that have been in jail for spreading the Gospel. The inconveniences and annoyances of those who spend much of their time arguing with other Christians on the Internet are becoming strangely dimmer and dimmer to me.

Remember Balaam’s Ass? I thought so.If God can speak out of a donkey , surely He can Speak out of the mouth of a man that he talked personally to on the road to Damascus and set Straight.Peter said that Paul’s writings were to be considered Scripture.......and ALL Scripture is “God Breathed” and “ adequate for Doctrine , Correction, etc.”
Either you don’t know your Bible, or you don’t Believe your Bible......Newbies—- Jesus said that Paul was “ The Deliverer Of the Good News to the Gentiles”.....After the Ascension Of Jesus, His Work being “ Finished” , he handed over the “ Teaching Reins” to Paul......Paul raised a man from the dead....that is enough to prove that he was a man approved by God.....Study hard, Rightly Divide God's Word and show yourself to be a good student of God's Word, so as God warns—- you won’t have to “Stand Ashamed”. Many that post in here should be thoroughly Ashamed , trying to make the case that Paul, “God’s CHOSEN Vessel , should be placed in a corner somewhere.
Nobody is confusing Paul with Jesus —— Jesus PERFORMED “ALL” the necessary Work Of Salvation, Paul was a wicked man, saved purely by the Grace Of God. Jesus “ DID” the Task laid out for Him by His Father.All that Paul Did was EXPLAIN it......God Bless .....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Actually, Jesus gave the Sermon on the Mount to His disciples who followed Him up to the mountain...and the scribes and Pharisees were not committed enough to be among this group.

I can’t prove it with Scripture , But I have a feeling those Creeps were always standing at the fringes....checking out their Enemy.....waiting for Him to say something that they could “try” to throw in His face later....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The salvation formulation given in the Sermon on the Mount - and Matt in general - is based at least in part in works. One can argue that there is a faith component ... but there is no legitimate argument for "faith alone" .. based soley on the Jesus of Mark/Matt.

It is not for nothing that the Majority of Christianity does not accept Sola Fide .. So don't be going around being all "defacto" .. as if there is some majority of Christians that accept this.. Sola Fide is the minority position.

This does not mean that this position is wrong ... but .. the burden is extra heavy on you to prove your case - and quoting from Paul is not an option .. I am only interested in the words of Jesus in this respect ...at least for now. Then we can move outward to other folks.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The-Sermon on the Mount was not meant to be a “ Salvation Formula” .....Too Wordy for that ....the Salvation Formula was given later...Six Words got the job done.... “Believe in the One He sent” or John 3:16 if you prefer another one.
The Sermon on the Mount was a “ Hell-Fire and Brimstone” discussion.....You are a Hell Bound Sinner who can’t be Saved by trying and failing to keep the Law Of Moses. Think you are Hot Stuff because you dont commit Adultery? Think again,Chester —- you are Bound for Hell merely for having a Lustful Thought!The Sermon on the Mount was given to show you God's True Standards for being “ fit for Heaven”......The Standard is Perfection 24/7 and you, my friend do not MEET that Standard and you ain’t GONNA meet that Standard ! Jesus provided a Loop-Hole that Those with “ eyes to see and ears to hear” can cling to if their hearts have been convicted of Sin and they clearly see their hopeless , Lost condition..... “ God will grant MERCY to ALL that ask for it”.....If you are a Blessed person, a person whose heart has been pierced and convicted of Sin by hearing Jesus Sermon Of Condemnation for those That have not Turned to God, DO what this Sermon was intended to MAKE you do ! Get on your Sinful Knees and cry out like the Contrite Publican did—- “Lord,have Mercy on me, a Sinner”......That Prayer , according to Jesus got that man Saved . It was a prayer that got ME Saved. It is a prayer that will get YOU Saved .......It is a HOLY Promise from God and God NEVER breaks a Promise! The Promise is this—- “Anybody that ASKS to be Saved WILL BE SAVED !” The intent of the Sermon on the Mount was to get you to ASK! Ain’t Nobody gonna “Ask” for Mercy and Forgiveness until they see the need for them....those with “ears to hear” discovered their “ NEED”.......Have you? God Bless....

 

[Heyzeus]

Gal 1:
[14]
[15] But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
[16] To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
[17] Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
[18] Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

When Paul was called- he responded and was taught for 3 Years in Arabia, by the Spirit. NOT Flesh and Blood.
Prepared...Paul then began his missionary works.

Saul a Jewish Pharisee expert in the Law, AND Paul a Roman citizen...
A perfect choice God made to Teach and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ; to Jews and Gentiles....Paul having the same amount Time of being a Student...as did the Disciples who walked for 3 years with Jesus.

Glory to God,
Taken

Nothing in the passage states that there was any teaching ... never mind 3 years taught by Jesus - or the spirit .. or what ever.

This is completely made up other than the part that went into Arabia and returned to Jerusalem 3 years later.

 

[Heyzeus]

God refers to Paul as “ My Chosen Vessel”...... The Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 That Saves a person, this side of the Cross was given to Paul by Jesus Personally.... “Nor was it Given to me by MAN “
It was “ Given to me to reveal the mysteries of God, kept secret by Him from the Beginning...”
Believe as you wish.....ignore all of the plain evidence that shows that when Paul was talking — it was Jesus talking through him.....Jesus said to “follow Paul as he follows Christ”....I’ll go with that...

God does not refer to anyone other than Jesus as "My Chosen Vessel" in the NT - and certainly not Paul.

 

[Heyzeus]

The-Sermon on the Mount was not meant to be a “ Salvation Formula” .....Too Wordy for that ....the Salvation Formula was given later...Six Words got the job done.... “Believe in the One He sent” or John 3:16 if you prefer another one
...

The SOM is what it is. Jesus explains how to get through the pearly gates in that Sermon .. and you claiming that Jesus meant this or that is absurd because you don't know what Jesus meant ??

"Not all who call lord lord will enter Heaven - Only those that do the will of the Father"

I order to get into heaven - you need do the will of the Father .. This is what Jesus says - and indeed Jesus is telling you what you need to do to get into heaven.

Perhaps your view of salvation does not involve getting into heaven ??

 

[Heyzeus]

Most theologians believe paul is talking about himself there. I never said he was trained by Jesus for three years.

Someone else mentioned the 3 years .. the post you responded to was me responding to that. "Trained by Jesus for 3 years in Arabia".

 

[Heyzeus]

Paul said nothing that was "dumb"...but I'd be interested in knowing what, among the things that he said, you think are dumb.

Paul said at least a few stupid things .. He said it was shameful for a woman to speak in Church - and that they should not be teachers of scripture.

Paul also stated that people should submit to nasty dictators like Hitler because they are God's appointed rulers. This was not so dumb rather than lacking foresight. Paul was smart with this passage as it would have appeased the Romans - but this is not "Inspired" .. just the writings of a man trying to keep the Church out of Harms way from the Romans.

 

[Heyzeus]

And therefore, the works that we do, while worthy of obtaining entrance into the kingdom, do not obtain such entrance; because entrance has already been obtained sola fide...through faith in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

Your claim that you have a free pass through the pearly gates .. and do not have to pass judgement - is contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

 

[Taken]

Nothing in the passage states that there was any teaching ... never mind 3 years taught by Jesus - or the spirit .. or what ever.

This is completely made up other than the part that went into Arabia and returned to Jerusalem 3 years later.

Out of your league.

 

[Heyzeus]

Out of your league.

Speak for yourself - I am not the one making things up and adding this made up nonsense to scripture.

 

[Taken]

Speak for yourself - I am not the one making things up and adding this made up nonsense to scripture.

You are the one "CLAIMING" things are made up...and When you are Scripturally Shown they are NOT made up...
You simply DENY the Scriptural Facts.

I am confidant The Lord is Pleased with Paul's Works, whether or not you are.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Paraphrasing here......If God came up with a set of Laws that could save anybody— “ Christ is Dead in Vain...”

.....and so that means we don't have to keep the set of laws! Since we are not made righteous by laws (justified by law), that means we don't have to obey them! Hallelujah, praise the Lord! That's where the church's thinking is today. But all that will get them is a fast exit to the left to the lake of fire when Jesus comes back. Many will have no works to save them from the lake of fire when Jesus comes back, but they sure will be confessing Christ with their mouth, lol! "But I have faith in you. I was active in my church!", they will say. If you really had faith in Jesus you wouldn't be standing there with no works to show for it.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

of course; but the question proves my point quite nicely.

Just because a person's circumstances don't allow them to live long enough to live for Jesus doesn't mean people are not judged at the resurrection according to what they have done.