All saints are believers, not all believers are saints.
The faithful and the saints: Bringing Calvinism and Arminianism together.
- Thread starter David H.
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All saints are believers, not all believers are saints.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Right, but can we say that each of the NT authors who use the word ἁγίους (hagios, "saints") meant each time "believers who were chosen to be believers from the foundation of the world"? Does the context work in each instance? Are saints then a superior class of believer to rest of us? See what I'm saying?
Is it all that strange? Would you know how to read if no one had taught you? Is it something you could have known how to do on your own?
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They would only be superior in the sense that God gave them more. But then that’s God being superior, not them. They didn’t achieve holiness. God took them into His own holiness.
That verse is delineating between the righteous and the wicked. Not the righteous and the holy.
But davidH, it's important to remember that God makes a place for righteous men. Just as men have been wrongly taught that there is only righteous AND holy both together versus wicked, you can't begin to think there is only holy versus wicked.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
But then, God gave the Believer class their freedom. Who was given more?
And by joining themselves to Christ in faith, the Believer class is taken into Christ's own holiness. (I am assuming that in the Incarnation, Christ retained the divine attribute of Holiness, while taking on the Human attributes of Flesh, albeit without the attribute of Sin. This assumption could certainly be challenged, or at least could be examined further.)
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Ah. Then is the Believer's holiness a hope deferred? That would certainly impact the "P" in TULIP. But that is consistent with the OP's original assumption that TULIP only applies to the Saint class.
But does the Believer class share in Christ's Righteousness, per 2 Corinthians 5:20-21? I think they would in this system.
Saints have more responsibility so they are given more capacity. To he who has more will be given (Matt. 13:12). Saints will rule with Christ over the righteous of the nations in the next age...and forever.
There is a distinction to be made between the bride of Christ and the many guests that are invited to the wedding feast.
Those who have been crucified to walk in the resurrection life of Christ while yet in these mortal bodies are becoming saints through the training school of Christ. The righteous are such by faithfulness in humility and the fear of the Lord.
So then the saint looks to the faithful in order to remain grounded in humility and the faithful look to the saint for guidance and inspiration...and humility. Each is to esteem the other as higher than himself.
I can't answer about tulip, I don't know it. I've heard it talked about but don't know it. I sort of skipped over that part in his post.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
We put on the righteousness of God when we enter into Christ....like a vehicle that brings us into a holy walk...like an airplane that causes us to fly above the pull of this world. So the race of faith is to enter into Christ right now to walk as He walked. Otherwise we are not in the race of holiness at all.
Judgment is according to one's own righteousness and faithfulness; otherwise it isn't a judgment but a lack of judgment.
Can you maybe give some verses that show it being forever that the saints rule over the righteous forever? I think I rather had it in my head that it was for 1000 years. I could be very wrong on that...
That also delineates between the one who serves God and the one who doesn't. The servant of the LORD is the saint.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
As an exercise for the student, I'll let you Google it. I am specifically referring to the principle of the Perseverance of the Saints, that says that those chosen by God cannot fall away into unbelief. Mere Believers are in danger of losing their salvation through unbelief and rebellion against his Christ. In case anyone was wondering how Armageddon occurs at the end of the 1000-year reign.
Rev. 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev. 22:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
The saint is written in the Lamb's book of life. The righteous /faithful is saved by being written in the Book of life. There are 3 books that we will be judged from. (Also the book of remembrance (Mal. 3)that catches those who fail at being saints but who remain faithful)
Rev. 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Lambano
Well-Known Member
You remembered correctly, but those who come from a Partial-Preterist eschatological background interpret the Millennial Reign as the Church age which we are in now, where Christ rules in the hearts of both Saints and Believers. Me, I got enough to do in the here and now; eschatology has to stay on the back burner.
"I don't preach much on the Second Coming. I'm too busy telling people about the first one." - Attributed to Billy Graham. I wish I could confirm this quote; it's pretty good.
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