The Falling Away/Apostasy

[Duckybill]

I have observed the persistent idea that Jesus became sinful, died spiritually, became a sinner. This has been going on for many years. These being the VERY last days before Jesus' return, I truly wonder if this is what the NT refers to as the "falling away". MANY, even here are obsessed with making Jesus sinful and spiritually dead. The 'falling away' being associated with THE END.

Daniel 12:10 (ESV)
[sup]10 [/sup] And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.

The JDS crowd is going down!

 

[veteran]

I have observed the persistent idea that Jesus became sinful, died spiritually, became a sinner. This has been going on for many years. These being the VERY last days before Jesus' return, I truly wonder if this is what the NT refers to as the "falling away". MANY, even here are obsessed with making Jesus sinful and spiritually dead. The 'falling away' being associated with THE END.

Daniel 12:10 (ESV)
[sup]10 [/sup] And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.

The JDS crowd is going down!

Since so many are obviously listening to men instead of God in His Word, it must be very close.

 

[[email protected]]

I have observed the persistent idea that Jesus became sinful, died spiritually, became a sinner. This has been going on for many years. These being the VERY last days before Jesus' return, I truly wonder if this is what the NT refers to as the "falling away". MANY, even here are obsessed with making Jesus sinful and spiritually dead. The 'falling away' being associated with THE END.

Daniel 12:10 (ESV)
[sup]10 [/sup] And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.

The JDS crowd is going down!

Well I think we can agree with a certainty that if this demeaning attitude isn't the falling away that is spoken of, then it's a pretty good indicator of the season.

Question: What's JDS?

 

[Duckybill]

Well I think we can agree with a certainty that if this demeaning attitude isn't the falling away that is spoken of, then it's a pretty good indicator of the season.

Question: What's JDS?

The doctrine that 'Jesus died spiritually'. It's a popular 'charismatic' blasphemous heresy. It says that Jesus was possessed with the spirit of Satan and had to be born again. And many other sickening things.

 

[Duckybill]

The teaching that Jesus was sinful is a precursor to the JDS doctrine. Satan is trying to set up the gullible.

 

[Episkopos]

The falling away has already taken place. Faith has been replaced with human belief, and this trend is continuing to gain ground.

There is hardly anyone that takes the purpose of the gospel seriously these days. Who believes in a victory over sin anymore?:mellow:

People will accept the goodness of God...but not His severity.

 

[Duckybill]

The JDS teachers teach that Jesus was possessed with the spirit of Satan. How much more serious can it get?

Mark 3:28-30 (ESV)
[sup]28 [/sup]“Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, [sup]29 [/sup]but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— [sup]30 [/sup]for they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”

 

[veteran]

The doctrine that 'Jesus died spiritually'. It's a popular 'charismatic' blasphemous heresy. It says that Jesus was possessed with the spirit of Satan and had to be born again. And many other sickening things.

Those kind of false ideas sound just like Gnostic Mysticism to me. The 2nd century Gnostics believed that Christ did not actually die on the cross either, that His disciples removed Him from the cross before He died, and that He lived a long life afterwards, even that He married Mary Magdalene and they had children.

The fraternities of initiation (descendents of the Gnostic movements) also treat our Lord Jesus as just a flesh prophet like Moses, Buddha, Krishna, etc., and even claim He was trained by them in their ancient esoteric doctrines. (That's who the false doctrine that our Lord Jesus traveled to the Far East and Egypt and was initiated into the pagan 'mysteries' during the missing 18 years of His early life originates from). Some of the early Charismatic churches had influences from later Gnosticism, through those in Europe like Jacob Boheme and Emmanuel Swedenborg (both mystics).

All those type of doctrines are nothing but attempts by Satan's servants to deny Jesus of Nazareth as God born in the flesh, and His being without sin. But what affect are those ideas by Satan designed to do upon the deceived?

Ever hear about Opra talk about "Christ consciousness"?


When Opra said that term, I then knew exactly where her training on religion was coming from, i.e., the fraternities of initiation. That's one of the modern ideas they teach to their initiates today. Its basis depends upon our Lord Jesus being only a flesh prophet, and not God The Saviour come in the flesh. The reason is because that doctrine of theirs is about Satan's lie of becoming one's 'own' god. The "Christ consciousness" idea is also called by others of them, "Cosmic consciousness", etc.

The LORD warned us about that kind of idea in Dan.11:38-39 with the false one who honors "the God of forces". That's the "strange god" whom his fathers knew not. How does it work? Simple, it's the idea that we each can attune to an invisible cosmic or psychic force and become perfect, as our 'own' Christ. They separate the idea of 'Christ' apart from our Lord's name of 'Jesus'. Christ is their 'God of forces' idea, or "Christ consciousness", etc. They treat it as a completely separate cosmic force. Thus they teach the lie that our Lord Jesus only attuned to "Christ consciousness" to become 'Jesus Christ', and that we all can actually do what Jesus did by that. It's a 'you can save yourself' doctrine.

This is why they flat refuse Jesus of Nazareth as The Only Begotten Son, The Christ, Immanuel God with us in the flesh, wholely God and wholely man at the same time, being born through The Holy Spirit in Mary's womb, and walking the earth. God's Word means only ONE Christ, not many like how they want it to mean.

So anytime we hear any idea that points to that 'God of forces' falsehood that denies Jesus Christ as God come in the flesh without sin, then it's easy to know just 'where' it's coming from, and how they mean it, even those like Opra.

 

[kdmomma]

The falling away has already taken place. Faith has been replaced with human belief, and this trend is continuing to gain ground.

There is hardly anyone that takes the purpose of the gospel seriously these days. Who believes in a victory over sin anymore?:mellow:

People will accept the goodness of God...but not His severity.

You are so right!

 

[JesusFreakMartyr]

@Veteran, Thank you for such an intelligible post.

You are very right Episkopos, and it is a severe and unfortunate situation. I count it a blessing that God has blessed me with knowledge and wisdom to appreciate the victory I have been given over the sin of this crippled world. Especially more recently, than ever before, has God been talking to my heart and the Holy Spirit guiding my thoughts and actions. I have began recognizing the attempts of Satan exercising my sinful nature, and my method of combat is telling myself "That is my sinful nature, I refuse to be part of it".. and it seriously helps me stay out of trouble with my Lord!

 

[Holy Pursuit]

The falling away has already taken place. Faith has been replaced with human belief, and this trend is continuing to gain ground.

There is hardly anyone that takes the purpose of the gospel seriously these days. Who believes in a victory over sin anymore?:mellow:

People will accept the goodness of God...but not His severity.

Agreed. I think people don't realize what the gospel is, let alone the purpose. The gospel is amazing in that it is about God, stepping into OUR space in OUR time, and as a result of He doing this there is salvation, in addition to the power to overcome!! If we really think about what God has offered us, the power that is there, if we have faith and obedience, doesn't it blow you away?

Yes, the apostasy already started, I think it started the minute Jesus ascended because shortly after that the apostles kept correcting people already in their false doctrine, imo.

 

[Episkopos]

@Veteran, Thank you for such an intelligible post.

You are very right Episkopos, and it is a severe and unfortunate situation. I count it a blessing that God has blessed me with knowledge and wisdom to appreciate the victory I have been given over the sin of this crippled world. Especially more recently, than ever before, has God been talking to my heart and the Holy Spirit guiding my thoughts and actions. I have began recognizing the attempts of Satan exercising my sinful nature, and my method of combat is telling myself "That is my sinful nature, I refuse to be part of it".. and it seriously helps me stay out of trouble with my Lord!

Yes, we need to betray our "own" cause so to speak to be right with God!

 

[veteran]

The falling away has already taken place. Faith has been replaced with human belief, and this trend is continuing to gain ground.

It may appear that the great falling away has already taken place, but in reality we are still in the "beginnings of sorrows":

Mark 13:8
8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
(KJV)

I have to stress this point, because the actual time for the great falling away is linked with the final Antichrist's working during the tribulation. The tribulation has not begun yet.

It's the following sign that accompanies the time of the great falling away:

Mark 13:9-13
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them.
10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
(KJV)

We're definitely seeing the start of a type of hatred against us in the traditional Christian west that never used to be, and newer generations of a lot of old Christian families casting away their Christian heritage. But it's not yet to the point of our being delivered up to give that Testimony for Christ by The Holy Spirit cloven tongue, not until God's two witnesses arrive in Jerusalem. When the "one-world government" beast system is finalized, then we may expect that to start. More accurately, when the false messiah our Lord Jesus warned us of shows up, and proclaims himself as God over all nations, then you will know beyond a doubt you're in the tribulation He warned us of.

That's the time when the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son, and children shall rise up against their parents causing them to be put to death. Compare that with what Communism has done in turning children against their own parents, brother against brother, father against son, etc. It's that kind of thing that is going to mark the great falling away period that Apostle Paul linked with the coming of the "man of sin" to sit the Temple of God in Jerusalem.

 

[[email protected]]

The falling away has already taken place. Faith has been replaced with human belief, and this trend is continuing to gain ground.

There is hardly anyone that takes the purpose of the gospel seriously these days. Who believes in a victory over sin anymore?:mellow:

People will accept the goodness of God...but not His severity.

Agreed. We are knee deep in apostacy - falling away.

The Pope has even made a statement about the spiritual condition of Europe. Britain is said to be a completely secular nation today. In fact, Britain is now the seat of atheist philosophy; Dawkins & Hodges.

A few years ago my wife and I visited Robert Schuller's Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove, California. You all may remember the "Hour of Power" TV show that Mr. Schuller broadcast.

While surfing the web I discovered that a year after our 2007 visit the trustees had to declare bankruptcy. Robert Schuller, head pastor in '07, retired in 2008. There followed a series of problems in leadership. His son was appointed to lead, but the elder Schuller soon replaced him with the eldest daughter in '09. Recently it was announced that the property was to be sold and broken up by investors. Some of it will be leased back to the church if they can afford it.

The Great Apostacy marches on.

But nature, especially human nature, abhors a vacuum. Into the spiritual vacuum of secular humanism will march the murderous legions of Islam. They in turn will usher in the eighth kingdom spoken of by John in the book of Revelation. They call their future leader Muhammad al-Mahdi, the twelfth Imam of the restored Caliphate. The Bible calls him antiChrist; liar, thief and murderer - enemy of Jew and Christian and anybody else who gets in their way.

NEVER TRUST A MUSLIM - Remember 9/11

And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write; These things saith he that hath the sharp two–edged sword:
I know where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s throne is: and thou holdest fast my name, and didst not deny my faith, even in the days of Antipas my witness, my faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Rev 2:12&13

Pergamum (or Pergamon) is in modern day Turkey. The antiChrist will come from Turkey, not the Roman papacy. The Bible says so.

WATCH TURKEY

 

[veteran]

Agreed. We are knee deep in apostacy - falling away.

The Pope has even made a statement about the spiritual condition of Europe. Britain is said to be a completely secular nation today. In fact, Britain is now the seat of atheist philosophy; Dawkins & Hodges.

A few years ago my wife and I visited Robert Schuller's Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove, California. You all may remember the "Hour of Power" TV show that Mr. Schuller broadcast.

While surfing the web I discovered that a year after our 2007 visit the trustees had to declare bankruptcy. Robert Schuller, head pastor in '07, retired in 2008. There followed a series of problems in leadership. His son was appointed to lead, but the elder Schuller soon replaced him with the eldest daughter in '09. Recently it was announced that the property was to be sold and broken up by investors. Some of it will be leased back to the church if they can afford it.

The Great Apostacy marches on.

But nature, especially human nature, abhors a vacuum. Into the spiritual vacuum of secular humanism will march the murderous legions of Islam. They in turn will usher in the eighth kingdom spoken of by John in the book of Revelation. They call their future leader Muhammad al-Mahdi, the twelfth Imam of the restored Caliphate. The Bible calls him antiChrist; liar, thief and murderer - enemy of Jew and Christian and anybody else who gets in their way.

NEVER TRUST A MUSLIM - Remember 9/11

And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write; These things saith he that hath the sharp two–edged sword:
I know where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s throne is: and thou holdest fast my name, and didst not deny my faith, even in the days of Antipas my witness, my faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Rev 2:12&13

Pergamum (or Pergamon) is in modern day Turkey. The antiChrist will come from Turkey, not the Roman papacy. The Bible says so.

WATCH TURKEY

I wish you hadn't made comparison with the falling away to Robert Schuller and his followers because I've heard him preach occult Mysticism in his broadcasts. One of the reasons he replaced his own son after retirement was because of how his son was going back to straight Bible teaching when he preached!

 

[[email protected]]

I wish you hadn't made comparison with the falling away to Robert Schuller and his followers because I've heard him preach occult Mysticism in his broadcasts. One of the reasons he replaced his own son after retirement was because of how his son was going back to straight Bible teaching when he preached!

I do not subscribe to Robert Schuller's version of the gospel, nor do I believe the organization there in Garden Grove is fully of God.

On the other hand, one must admit that whether the Crystal Cathedral is at root Christian or not is rather academic. The ediface and the organization is seen to be Christian by the rest of the world; certainly by the hedonistic folk of California, America and the world. In the world of marketing, politics and hollywood APPEARANCE IS REALITY. So I can say will all confidence that the fall of Crystal Cathedral may be used as a supporting argument to state that the great apostacy is upon us.

I BELIEVE that the true church of Jesus Christ is not real estate or satellite TV ministries. The true church is the multitude of believers who have cast their lives and fate into the hands of Jesus Christ, not Robert Schuller, Billy Graham, or Barak Obama. As such, the true church, is flourishing as never before. The fake church, the worldly church, the presumptious church is dying and dying quite rapidly.

In the gospels, Jesus demonstrated an ability and a desire to chase away those who had an agenda other than that of following His lead. In my opinion, Our Lord is still accomplishing that work today. The Great Apostacy, therefore, is NOT the destruction or the falling away of those dedicated and devoted to Christ - it is the deliberate act of the Lord of Lords to cut off the dead wood, so to speak.

 

[veteran]

I do not subscribe to Robert Schuller's version of the gospel, nor do I believe the organization there in Garden Grove is fully of God.

On the other hand, one must admit that whether the Crystal Cathedral is at root Christian or not is rather academic. The ediface and the organization is seen to be Christian by the rest of the world; certainly by the hedonistic folk of California, America and the world. In the world of marketing, politics and hollywood APPEARANCE IS REALITY. So I can say will all confidence that the fall of Crystal Cathedral may be used as a supporting argument to state that the great apostacy is upon us.

I BELIEVE that the true church of Jesus Christ is not real estate or satellite TV ministries. The true church is the multitude of believers who have cast their lives and fate into the hands of Jesus Christ, not Robert Schuller, Billy Graham, or Barak Obama. As such, the true church, is flourishing as never before. The fake church, the worldly church, the presumptious church is dying and dying quite rapidly.

In the gospels, Jesus demonstrated an ability and a desire to chase away those who had an agenda other than that of following His lead. In my opinion, Our Lord is still accomplishing that work today. The Great Apostacy, therefore, is NOT the destruction or the falling away of those dedicated and devoted to Christ - it is the deliberate act of the Lord of Lords to cut off the dead wood, so to speak.

I'm glad you realize there's a problem there. But I would have to differ with any idea that they were a real Christian Church to begin with. Even in OT times of Israel falling away, God called their supposed house of God as nothing but a beth-aven, a 'house of vanity'. What is taught is what determines a House of God. Anytime the religious head stops someone from preaching direct Bible, like what Shuller did with removing his son from preaching directly from The Bible, then that's a huge sign of a beth-aven.

The best mark of a House of God is the preaching of His Word, line upon line and chapter by chapter. And when Israel was in God's Grace that's exactly how the priests taught the people of Israel, reading line by line directly from God's Word.

I agree that the purpose of the great apostasy is to prune dead branches. But that's not really what is happenning yet. The prophets of Baal are active today like they were in Elijah's days. For each place like that crystal palace going down, five more worse than it will spring up, and call themselves a Christian Church.

The real ministries of people flocking to Christ is overseas right now, places where Christians are terribly persecuted and killed just for believing on Christ Jesus. In the historical Christian West, it's the opposite, with more and more traditional Christian families falling by the wayside, and the beast system taking their Churches over.

 

[tgwprophet]

Jesus sinned?

Duckybill wrote:

"I have observed the persistent idea that Jesus became sinful, died spiritually, became a sinner"...

I noticed you sis not say you agree with that post...
And so, if Jesus sinned to pay for sin... then I too could mete out GRACE for I have sinned. How
about our understanding is in error and Jesus did not sin that he could pay for sin.

The "falling away" of the churches... if this is about the Jewish Churches, I could see that as being the
insatiable desire for the Jews to achieve peace. If this is directed toward the Christain Chruches then I
could see this as they seek "Christlam" and so, I can see it pertaining to both or either.

 

[Duckybill]

Jesus sinned?

Duckybill wrote:

"I have observed the persistent idea that Jesus became sinful, died spiritually, became a sinner"...

I noticed you sis not say you agree with that post...
And so, if Jesus sinned to pay for sin... then I too could mete out GRACE for I have sinned. How
about our understanding is in error and Jesus did not sin that he could pay for sin.

The "falling away" of the churches... if this is about the Jewish Churches, I could see that as being the
insatiable desire for the Jews to achieve peace. If this is directed toward the Christain Chruches then I
could see this as they seek "Christlam" and so, I can see it pertaining to both or either.

I certainly DO NOT agree that Jesus died spiritually/ became sinful. Hope that helps.

 

[gregg]

google churchs for sale.it will amaze you.