The fifth angel sounded

[Jay Ross]

Thinking you have the timeline off. satan will come to this earth with his angels although his evilness is here now, he is not. When he comes is when the falling away will happen, all except for those with the seal of God will fall for the deception.

Most will come out of the whore before the return of our true savior, Jesus Christ they are those whom the 2nd death will have no power ,those not in Christ before His return are those who are called the dead and they are the only ones whom satan can deceive after the 1000 years.

Maybe, but the explanation that you provided does not convince me that I should change my understanding at present.

That does not mean that I am claiming that I am absolutely right in my understanding of the end times, but I have yet to find anyone who can give me a better understanding that I should accept as being better.

At this point in time we both hold to different timelines as to how the Millennium Age will unfold.

 

[Davy]

It will never cease to amaze me that the 'literalists', who constantly point there fingers at people like me (Amillennialists) and roll their eyes in woe at our 'spiritualizing' of Revelation...will then go on to interpret such a passage as this in such a manner.
Helicopters? Really?
Wouldn't the most 'literal' reading of such a passage be to understand it for what it says it is? A swarm of demonic creatures sent to torment the earth?

Truly then, both are on the extreme fringes of its interpretation.

In the latter part of the Rev.9 chapter, it says their power is in their 'mouths'. So those symbols cannot be about a literal military army.

Rev 9:17-19
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
KJV

What comes out of one's mouth??

What kind of breastplates with precious gems are there in God's Word? (see Exodus 28)

Where did God first warn about the locust army, His great army He sends upon His people?

What did God say those locusts represent back in the OT prophets?

 

[Naomi25]

Truly then, both are on the extreme fringes of its interpretation.

In the latter part of the Rev.9 chapter, it says their power is in their 'mouths'. So those symbols cannot be about a literal military army.

Rev 9:17-19
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
KJV

What comes out of one's mouth??

What kind of breastplates with precious gems are there in God's Word? (see Exodus 28)

Where did God first warn about the locust army, His great army He sends upon His people?

What did God say those locusts represent back in the OT prophets?

Regardless if I personally agree with this particular interpretation, it, at least, draws it's interpretation directly from scripture. It is, I would contend, a legitimate view. Helicopters... not so much.

 

[n2thelight]

Maybe, but the explanation that you provided does not convince me that I should change my understanding at present.

That does not mean that I am claiming that I am absolutely right in my understanding of the end times, but I have yet to find anyone who can give me a better understanding that I should accept as being better.

At this point in time we both hold to different timelines as to how the Millennium Age will unfold.

This is how I like discussing scripture with other Christians ,as no one is 100% right .No one will be judged in ignorance is where I will start.

When satan arrives on this earth,literally ,with his angels after the war in Heaven he's coming as Christ ,that's the tribulation(satan as Christ)those without the seal of God not maybe,but will be deceived .Now ask yourself,who are the only people that can be deceived ?Only Christians can be deceived as we are the only one's who have Christ in us.

Right now we are virgins waiting on our Husband ,however at the greatest deception of mankind ,most will turn to whores.Those with the seal of God will not be deceived,it's them that will get most of the rest out of Her,ie,Babylon,the whore.

Now those that don't overcome before Christ return,are spiritually dead,but you you must remember is the change to our spiritual bodies,yet although changed,will still have a mortal soul as they didn't take part in the first resurrection,it is those whom after the 1000 years whom satan will try to deceive again.

Those in Christ at His return,have no worries(2nd death)

 

[Jay Ross]

This is how I like discussing scripture with other Christians ,as no one is 100% right .No one will be judged in ignorance is where I will start.

When Satan arrives on this earth, literally ,with his angels after the war in Heaven he's coming as Christ ,that's the tribulation(Satan as Christ)those without the seal of God not maybe, but will be deceived. Now ask yourself, who are the only people that can be deceived? Only Christians can be deceived as we are the only one's who have Christ in us.

Right now we are virgins waiting on our Husband ,however at the greatest deception of mankind ,most will turn to whores. Those with the seal of God will not be deceived, it's them that will get most of the rest out of Her, i.e. Babylon, the whore.

Now those that don't overcome before Christ return, are spiritually dead, but you you must remember is the change to our spiritual bodies, yet although changed, will still have a mortal soul as they didn't take part in the first resurrection, it is those whom after the 1000 years whom Satan will try to deceive again.

Those in Christ at His return, have no worries(2nd death)

It seems that you believe that Satan when he is cast out of heaven, will have time on the earth to act Christ like. However, it is my opinion that when Satan comes on the face of the earth that he is immediately gathered, along with his angels and the judged kings of the earth with their armies, and they are all imprisoned in the pit, i.e. the bottomless pit. (Isaiah 24:21-22) So in the passage, Revelation 12:7-12 a thousand years must be inserted immediately after Satan and his angels arrive on the face of the earth, because Satan is immediately imprisoned in the Pit. (Revelation 20:1-3.)

Now, when the thousand years of imprisonment is completed, the Bottomless pit is unlocked and Satan will be released from the pit to go out to the four corners of the earth to deceive the nations of the earth to form an army to march all over the earth and to eventually gather around the camp of the saints and the beloved city Jerusalem. It is this time, from when the Bottomless pit is unlocked to the the time when God sent fire down from heaven to devour Satan and his army that is the Great Tribulation.

When the Bottomless pit is unlocked and is no longer shut up we find that first the Locusts rise up in the smoke coming out of the Bottomless pit to torment those who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads for a period of five months.

Then the four angels, bound up in the abyss, which Jewish tradition suggested, was beside the Euphrates River, were released from the Bottomless pit, and when they came out of the Abyss, they acted in unison as if they were one beast, such that the description of this four facetted beast described aspects of the original four beasts described in Daniel 7:1-12 as being a part of this four facetted beast, also described in Daniel 7:17-28. Notice that the Little horn is also a part of the four facetted beast and they all rise up out of the earth in Daniel 7. It seems to me that the Little horn, in Daniel 7, can influence and control what the four facetted beast can do. In Daniel 7 a 1,000 year period should be inserted between the end of verse 16 and the start of verse 17 to accommodate the period of the season before the short time/little while before the end.

We are told that the beast rises up out of the Bottomless pit in Revelation 17:8 and this beast is the same beast in Revelation 13:1-12 that manifests itself in the sea of humanity and forms the army that marches all over the earth.

The Little Horn/False Prophet we are also told comes up out of the earth/abyss. The False Prophet will encourage people to worship the Beast and the Image of the beast after he rises up out of the Abyss.

In Revelation 11:7 we are told about the Two Witnesses, who will witness for a period of three and a half years, and that they are killed by the beast that rises up out of the Bottomless Pit and that their bodies will be left to lie in the street for a period of three and a half years. After lying in the street for all to see for three and a half years the breath of God will enter them and they will then stand up and god will call them to come up to heaven to be with him and they will rise up on a cloud into heaven.

It seems to me that this is the period when the prophetic prophecy in Daniel 9:27 will be fulfilled, and after the witness ascend into heaven after the completion of the one week of years, there will be great turmoil in the city and a tenth of the city will fall and 7,000 people will be killed in the resulting turmoil from the witnesses rising up to life and ascending into Heaven.

It is after this that Christ will come to capture the Beast and the False Prophet and cast them into the Lake of fire, (Revelation 19:17-21) and to defeat the beasts armies.

Then Satan will be captured and also cast into the Lake of Fire where the Beast and False Prophet had also been cast and then the GWTR judgement will commence and the Millennium Age will end.

For me the above all makes sense, but to arrive at this understanding many scriptural passages had to be seen to be describing the same events from different aspects in the tapestry of the end time prophecies.

I hope this provides you with an understanding of my position.

 

[n2thelight]

It seems that you believe that Satan when he is cast out of heaven, will have time on the earth to act Christ like. However, it is my opinion that when Satan comes on the face of the earth that he is immediately gathered, along with his angels and the judged kings of the earth with their armies, and they are all imprisoned in the pit, i.e. the bottomless pit. (Isaiah 24:21-22) So in the passage, Revelation 12:7-12 a thousand years must be inserted immediately after Satan and his angels arrive on the face of the earth, because Satan is immediately imprisoned in the Pit. (Revelation 20:1-3.)

Now, when the thousand years of imprisonment is completed, the Bottomless pit is unlocked and Satan will be released from the pit to go out to the four corners of the earth to deceive the nations of the earth to form an army to march all over the earth and to eventually gather around the camp of the saints and the beloved city Jerusalem. It is this time, from when the Bottomless pit is unlocked to the the time when God sent fire down from heaven to devour Satan and his army that is the Great Tribulation.

When the Bottomless pit is unlocked and is no longer shut up we find that first the Locusts rise up in the smoke coming out of the Bottomless pit to torment those who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads for a period of five months.

Then the four angels, bound up in the abyss, which Jewish tradition suggested, was beside the Euphrates River, were released from the Bottomless pit, and when they came out of the Abyss, they acted in unison as if they were one beast, such that the description of this four facetted beast described aspects of the original four beasts described in Daniel 7:1-12 as being a part of this four facetted beast, also described in Daniel 7:17-28. Notice that the Little horn is also a part of the four facetted beast and they all rise up out of the earth in Daniel 7. It seems to me that the Little horn, in Daniel 7, can influence and control what the four facetted beast can do. In Daniel 7 a 1,000 year period should be inserted between the end of verse 16 and the start of verse 17 to accommodate the period of the season before the short time/little while before the end.

We are told that the beast rises up out of the Bottomless pit in Revelation 17:8 and this beast is the same beast in Revelation 13:1-12 that manifests itself in the sea of humanity and forms the army that marches all over the earth.

The Little Horn/False Prophet we are also told comes up out of the earth/abyss. The False Prophet will encourage people to worship the Beast and the Image of the beast after he rises up out of the Abyss.

In Revelation 11:7 we are told about the Two Witnesses, who will witness for a period of three and a half years, and that they are killed by the beast that rises up out of the Bottomless Pit and that their bodies will be left to lie in the street for a period of three and a half years. After lying in the street for all to see for three and a half years the breath of God will enter them and they will then stand up and god will call them to come up to heaven to be with him and they will rise up on a cloud into heaven.

It seems to me that this is the period when the prophetic prophecy in Daniel 9:27 will be fulfilled, and after the witness ascend into heaven after the completion of the one week of years, there will be great turmoil in the city and a tenth of the city will fall and 7,000 people will be killed in the resulting turmoil from the witnesses rising up to life and ascending into Heaven.

It is after this that Christ will come to capture the Beast and the False Prophet and cast them into the Lake of fire, (Revelation 19:17-21) and to defeat the beasts armies.

Then Satan will be captured and also cast into the Lake of Fire where the Beast and False Prophet had also been cast and then the GWTR judgement will commence and the Millennium Age will end.

For me the above all makes sense, but to arrive at this understanding many scriptural passages had to be seen to be describing the same events from different aspects in the tapestry of the end time prophecies.

I hope this provides you with an understanding of my position.

The anti christ ,false prophet,the 2nd beast and satan are all one and the same the difference is in the role he plays

His mistake will be in killing the two witnesses ,as he was warned by God to not touch His elect.
satan will have 6 months,as his time was cut short per Matt 24.

Revelation 13:11 "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

This beast coming up out of the earth looks like a Lamb [Jesus Christ], yet he speaks like a dragon; because he is the dragon [Satan]. He claims to be Jesus, and most Christians will believe him.

Revelation 13:14 "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles [signs] which he had power [it was given him] to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."

This is the whole object for the great tribulation. "DECEPTION"!

It is when the elect are delivered up that most will come out of her(the whore).

Matthew 10:19 "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak."

This order that Jesus gave His disciples on their first missionary journey, is identical to the warning that Jesus gave to His elect, living in the final generation, recorded in Mark 13:11, and given above.

This Speaking of the Holy Spirit of God through your mouth is the cloven tongue that was spoken on Pentecost day, that so many call the "unknown tongue" today. It was not unknown, for Acts 2:7, 8 specifies that everyone from all over the world heard the speaking in their own language. "And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, "Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans?' [7] "And how hear we every man in our own tongue [language], wherein we were born? [8] That means in their own neighborhood dialect. No interpreter was necessary.

He (satan)can't be immediately detained as he wouldn't have time for his deception

 

[Davy]

Regardless if I personally agree with this particular interpretation, it, at least, draws it's interpretation directly from scripture. It is, I would contend, a legitimate view. Helicopters... not so much.

That's my point though, that neither interpretation is valid, not helicopters nor "creatures" sent to torment the earth. Demonic yes, but not actual locusts nor some type of Hollywood monster. The locusts are a symbol, the horsemen of Rev.9 is a symbol. God first gave those symbols back in the Book of Joel about a certain "nation" that comes upon His people for the last days. The problem in many Churches today is they don't study the Old Testament prophets as having much to say for the last days when God through them had a lot to say for the end.

 

[Naomi25]

That's my point though, that neither interpretation is valid, not helicopters nor "creatures" sent to torment the earth. Demonic yes, but not actual locusts nor some type of Hollywood monster. The locusts are a symbol, the horsemen of Rev.9 is a symbol. God first gave those symbols back in the Book of Joel about a certain "nation" that comes upon His people for the last days. The problem in many Churches today is they don't study the Old Testament prophets as having much to say for the last days when God through them had a lot to say for the end.

I agree that its highly unlikely that actual demonic creatures will appear to torment people. My point was: if people who make a point to take scripture in a strictly "literalistic" manner, suddenly go "helicopter", rather than "demonic creature", they've just blown way outside their own hermeneutic.
Personally, I agree that Revelation is a highly symbolic book that draws its images from the OT when it does not explicitly explain them. I think a case could possibly be made for these 'creatures' being demonic creatures, description wise, because of both OT texts and what we see in Revelation itself, but nothing suggests they would be visible. Indeed, Paul tells us that we battle against the unseen spirit realm. But regardless if we look at them as that, or as some other sort of other symbol, our hermeneutic tells us to use scripture to interpret scripture...which we are attempting to do. Insisting on a literal interpretation then going 'helicopter' is way outside the lines of a hermeneutical structure. It's like championing gravity and then insisting we can fly....it breaks their own rules.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

THE FIFTH ANGEL SOUNDED
At Revelations 9:1 it says: And the fifth angel blew his trumpet. And I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to the earth, and the key of the pit of the abyss was given him.” This “star” is different from that at Rvelations 8:10 that John saw in the act of falling. He sees “a star that had fallen from heaven” and that now has an assignment with respect to this earth. Is this a spirit or a fleshly person? The holder of this “key of the pit of the abyss” is later described as hurling Satan into “the abyss.” Revelations 20:1-3 So he must be a mighty spirit person. At Revelation 9:11, John tells us that the locusts have “a king, the angel of the abyss.” Both verses must refer to the same individual, since the angel holding the key of the abyss would logically be the angel of the abyss. And the star must symbolize Jehovah’s appointed King, since anointed Christians acknowledge only the one angelic King, Jesus Christ. Colossians 1:13; 1Corinthians 15:25

The account continues: “And he opened the pit of the abyss, and smoke ascended out of the pit as the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun was darkened, also the air, by the smoke of the pit. And out of the smoke locusts came forth upon the earth; and authority was given them, the same authority as the scorpions of the earth have.” Revelations 9:2, 3 scripturally, “the abyss” is a place of inactivity, even of death. (Compare Romans 10:7; Revelation 17:8; 20:1,3) The small band of Jesus’ brothers spent a short time in such an “abyss” of relative inactivity at the end of the first world war (1918-19). But when Jehovah poured his spirit upon his repentant servants in 1919, they swarmed forth to meet the challenge of the work that lay ahead.

As John observes, the release of the locusts is accompanied by much smoke, like “the smoke of a great furnace.” and That is how it proved to be in 1919. The situation darkened for Christendom and for the world in general. Compare Joel 2:30, 31The release of those locusts, the John class, was actually a defeat for Christendom’s clergy, who had schemed and plotted to kill the Kingdom work for good and who now rejected God’s Kingdom. Evidence of a smokelike pall started to spread over apostate Christendom as that locust band was given divine authority and began to exercise it in proclaiming powerful judgment messages. Christendom’s “sun”—her appearance of enlightenment—suffered an eclipse, and “the air” became thick with declarations of divine judgment as “the ruler of the authority of the air” of this world was shown to be Christendom’s God. Ephesians 2:2; John 12:31; 1John 5:19.

What battle instructions did those locusts receive? John reports: “And they were told to harm no vegetation of the earth nor any green thing nor any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. And it was granted the locusts, not to kill them, but that these should be tormented five months, and the torment upon them was as torment by a scorpion when it strikes a man. And in those days the men will seek death but will by no means find it, and they will desire to die but death keeps fleeing from them. Revelations 9: 4-6

Notice that this plague is not directed first against the people or prominent ones among them—the ‘vegetation and trees of the earth.’ Compare Revelation 8:7 The locusts are to harm only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads, those in Christendom who claim to be sealed but whose record belies that claim. Ephesians 1:13,14 Thus, the tormenting utterances of these modern-day locusts were directed first against the religious leaders of Christendom. How these self-assuming men must have been tormented at hearing it publicly announced that not only were they failing to lead their flocks to heaven but they themselves would not get there! Truly, it has been a case of ‘the blind leading the blind’! Matthew 15:14

The torment lasts for five months. Is that a relatively short time? Not from the point of view of a literal locust. Five months describes the normal life span of one of these insects. Therefore, it is for as long as they live that the modern-day locusts keep stinging God’s enemies. Moreover, the torment is so severe that men seek to die. True, we have no record that any of those who were stung by the locusts actually tried to kill themselves. But the expression helps us to picture the intensity of the torment—as though by the relentless assault of scorpions. It is like the suffering foreseen by Jeremiah for those unfaithful Israelites who would be scattered by the Babylonian conquerors and for whom death would be preferable to life. Jeremiah 8:3; Ecclesiastes 4:2,3

Why is it granted to torment these ones, in a spiritual sense, and not to kill them? This is an initial woe in the exposing of the lies of Christendom and her failures, but only later, as the Lord’s day progresses, will her deathlike spiritual state be fully publicized. It will be during a second woe that a third of the men are killed. Revelation 1:10; 9:12,18; 11:14.

What a remarkable appearance those locusts have! John describes it: “And the likenesses of the locusts resembled horses prepared for battle; and upon their heads were what seemed to be crowns like gold, and their faces were as men’s faces, but they had hair as women’s hair. And their teeth were as those of lions; and they had breastplates like iron breastplates. And the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running into battle." Revelation 9:7-9

This well illustrates the loyal group of revived Christians in 1919. Like horses, they were ready for battle, eager to fight for the truth in the way described by the apostle Paul. Ephesians 6: 11-13; 2 Corinthians 10:4 On their heads John sees what seem to be crowns as of gold. It would not be proper for them to have actual crowns because they do not begin ruling while they are still on earth. 1Corinthians 4:8; Revelation 20: 4 But in 1919 they already had a royal appearance. They were brothers of the King, and their heavenly crowns were reserved for them provided they continued faithful to the end.
2Timothy 4:8; 1Peter 5:4.

In the vision, the locusts have iron breastplates, symbolizing unbreakable righteousness. Ephesians 6:14-18 They also have men’s faces, this feature pointing to the quality of love, since man was made in the image of God, who is love. Genesis 1:26; 1John 4:16. Their hair is long like a woman’s, which well pictures subjection to their King, the angel of the abyss. And their teeth resemble a lion’s teeth. A lion uses its teeth to tear meat. From 1919 onward, the John class has again been able to take in solid spiritual food, particularly the truths about God’s Kingdom ruled by “the Lion that is of the tribe of Judah,” Jesus Christ. Just as the lion symbolizes courage, so great courage has been needed to digest this hard-hitting message, to bring it forth in publications, and to distribute it around the globe. Those figurative locusts have made a lot of noise, like “the sound of chariots of many horses running into battle.” After the example of first-century Christians, they do not intend to stay quiet. 1 Corinthians 11:7-15; Revelation 5: 5.

This preaching involves more than the spoken word! “Also, they have tails and stings like scorpions; and in their tails is their authority to hurt the men five months.” Revelation 9:10 What could this mean? As they go about their Kingdom work, Jehovah’s Witnesses, using the spoken word and printed publications, issue authoritative statements based on God’s Word. Their message has a scorpionlike sting because they warn of Jehovah’s approaching day of vengeance. Isaiah 61:2 Before the present generation of spiritual locusts lives out its life span, its divinely ordained work of declaring Jehovah’s judgments will be completed, to the hurt of all stiff-necked blasphemers.

That locust band was overjoyed when a new magazine, The Golden Age, was announced at their 1919 convention. It was a biweekly magazine, designed to intensify the sting of their witnessing. Its issue No. 27, of September 29, 1920, exposed the clergy’s duplicity in persecuting the Bible Students in the United States during the 1918-19 period. Through the 1920’s and 1930’s, The Golden Age tormented the clergy with further stinging articles and cartoons that exposed their crafty dabbling in politics, and especially the Catholic hierarchy’s accords made with the Fascist and Nazi dictators. In response, the clergy ‘framed mischief by law’ and organized mob violence against God’s people. Psalm 94:20 KJV

 

[Davy]

I agree that its highly unlikely that actual demonic creatures will appear to torment people. My point was: if people who make a point to take scripture in a strictly "literalistic" manner, suddenly go "helicopter", rather than "demonic creature", they've just blown way outside their own hermeneutic.
Personally, I agree that Revelation is a highly symbolic book that draws its images from the OT when it does not explicitly explain them. I think a case could possibly be made for these 'creatures' being demonic creatures, description wise, because of both OT texts and what we see in Revelation itself, but nothing suggests they would be visible. Indeed, Paul tells us that we battle against the unseen spirit realm. But regardless if we look at them as that, or as some other sort of other symbol, our hermeneutic tells us to use scripture to interpret scripture...which we are attempting to do. Insisting on a literal interpretation then going 'helicopter' is way outside the lines of a hermeneutical structure. It's like championing gravity and then insisting we can fly....it breaks their own rules.

Lot of Revelation's symbols originate from the Old Testament prophets, definitely. The locusts representing helicopters isn't viable.


And there's really no reason to speculate, since God showed us what those Rev.9 locusts represent back in the Book of Joel...

Joel 1:2-7
2 Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?
3 Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation.
4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.
5 Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.
6 For a nation is come up upon My land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.
7 He hath laid My vine waste, and barked My fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.
KJV


Rev 9:7-9
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
KJV

What do I really think the locusts of Rev.9 represent? They represent Satan's fake 'ministers of righteousness' that will work on earth just prior to the great tribulation, and during it, when he is setup as king of the world in Jerusalem at the very end of this world.

 

[Naomi25]

Lot of Revelation's symbols originate from the Old Testament prophets, definitely. The locusts representing helicopters isn't viable.


And there's really no reason to speculate, since God showed us what those Rev.9 locusts represent back in the Book of Joel...

Joel 1:2-7
2 Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?
3 Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation.
4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.
5 Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.
6 For a nation is come up upon My land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.
7 He hath laid My vine waste, and barked My fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.
KJV


Rev 9:7-9
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
KJV

What do I really think the locusts of Rev.9 represent? They represent Satan's fake 'ministers of righteousness' that will work on earth just prior to the great tribulation, and during it, when he is setup as king of the world in Jerusalem at the very end of this world.

The OT uses the imagery of locusts to represent armies many times, but yes, I agree that Joel's symbology is closest to what is represented in Revelation.
I haven't really landed on what I think they are. But I think the most likely is either armies, as described in the OT. Or its using that imagery to describe something going on is the spiritual realm...ie, behind the scenes, but with very real out workings here on earth (our battle is not against flesh and blood).
But again, I'm not dogmatic on it...its not a hill I want to die on!

 

[Davy]

The OT uses the imagery of locusts to represent armies many times, but yes, I agree that Joel's symbology is closest to what is represented in Revelation.
I haven't really landed on what I think they are. But I think the most likely is either armies, as described in the OT. Or its using that imagery to describe something going on is the spiritual realm...ie, behind the scenes, but with very real out workings here on earth (our battle is not against flesh and blood).
But again, I'm not dogmatic on it...its not a hill I want to die on!

I can't agree at all that it's about a literal military simply because the Joel 2 account says if they fall on a sword they won't be killed. That idea would never apply to a literal army, so it's a way our Heavenly Father is telling us He is pointing to a much greater socioeconomic-religious movement. And with Rev.9 speaking of the jacinth gemstone in their breastplates, that precious gem was one of the 12 stones in the Hebrew priest's breastplate. That coupled with Rev.9 telling us "For their power is in their mouth", that also confirms it cannot represent a literal military army. And their hair like women also is another pointer to their smoothness of deceptive working.

So I think there's plenty of direct pointers there that they represent false priests, and the main point of attack is by what comes out of their mouths.

 

[Naomi25]

I can't agree at all that it's about a literal military simply because the Joel 2 account says if they fall on a sword they won't be killed. That idea would never apply to a literal army, so it's a way our Heavenly Father is telling us He is pointing to a much greater socioeconomic-religious movement. And with Rev.9 speaking of the jacinth gemstone in their breastplates, that precious gem was one of the 12 stones in the Hebrew priest's breastplate. That coupled with Rev.9 telling us "For their power is in their mouth", that also confirms it cannot represent a literal military army. And their hair like women also is another pointer to their smoothness of deceptive working.

So I think there's plenty of direct pointers there that they represent false priests, and the main point of attack is by what comes out of their mouths.

"Hair like women points to their smoothness of deceptive working". Huh. As a woman, I'm not sure I like the generalization of the representation there.
Personally, I think it's much more likely to point to the horrifying trend of man-buns. I mean...you can't deny that it's totally unnatural.

 

[Bobby Jo]

...
Remember, this is 2000 years ago, but he’s seeing locusts with breastplates of iron, with faces of men, the sound of their wings was the sound of many chariots, or many horses running to battle.

He is seeing helicopters, although he’d never seen a helicopter. He had no clue what they were ...!

I agree, wholeheartedly, -- but the depictions don't stop there:

Rev. 9:17 And this was how I saw the horses in my vision: the riders wore breastplates the color of fire and of sapphire and of sulphur, and the heads of the horses were like lions’ heads, and fire and smoke and sulphur issued from their mouths.​

... which appears to depict battlefield tanks, and:

Rev. 6:13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale; 14 the sky vanished like a scroll that is rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the generals and the rich and the strong, and every one, slave and free, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains,​

... which appears to depict ICBM re-entry bodies streaking through the atmosphere, and the people hiding in their fall-out shelters.


But others should take heart. None of this will come to pass, and they shouldn't worry. It's only idle words, fake technology, and a false future. -- GOD wouldn't destroy mankind, except maybe during Noah's time and maybe in our time also ...

Bobby Jo

 

[farouk]

Huh. As a woman, I'm not sure I like the generalization of the representation there.

@Naomi25

Source: US Army

Evidently need a lot more chopping there...

 

[farouk]

The OT uses the imagery of locusts to represent armies many times, but yes, I agree that Joel's symbology is closest to what is represented in Revelation.
I haven't really landed on what I think they are. But I think the most likely is either armies, as described in the OT. Or its using that imagery to describe something going on is the spiritual realm...ie, behind the scenes, but with very real out workings here on earth (our battle is not against flesh and blood).
But again, I'm not dogmatic on it...its not a hill I want to die on!

@Naomi25 Joel is an intriguing book; it does seem to be not about the church but about a future and about a Jewish element at Pentecost....

 

[Naomi25]

@Naomi25

Source: US Army

Evidently need a lot more chopping there...

LOL! Golly, you just wouldn't think it, sometimes, would you? But, I suppose someone has to think about how to make people look all...uniform-y and proper. Still....I think that would...chafe my individualistic streak a little. Sometimes you just want pink hair in buns, ya know? Well...I've mostly grown out of the pink.

 

[Naomi25]

@Naomi25 Joel is an intriguing book; it does seem to be not about the church but about a future and about a Jewish element at Pentecost....

I've actually been digging into some of the OT prophets recently, trying to look at how they deal with Israel....its very interesting. Am maybe re-orienting my end-time view a very, very little bit...maybe. Still factoring in some things. Always interesting to take in new info and see where God leads you!