It works like this; God tested Adam under ideal condition as a sample of the pending human race. Adam flunked thereby flunking all of us. So into the garbage incinerator we go. But God in his love took some of the garbage and represented them himself in Christ. Not only paying for their sins on the cross, but treating us as though we are Christ without any sin.
The Flawed Reasoning Of Total Depravity
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That is non-responsive, did you not have a reply?
Yes, they loved evil. But as many as received Jesus are born again, whosoever . . .
This is why God said, the saving grace of God was manifested to all men . . . we need His grace to believe.
God presents Himself to us, and we can accept or reject His offer.
Much love!
It means God is moving you in a bad direction to possibly teach you something, or worse, to condemn you. But if you are in Christ, it works for your good and you learn from it.
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Apparently, you want "the light" to be the "point of conversion" to which the responsive yet unconverted "elect" journey in order to be converted, right?
The "light" is not the "point of conversion", it is "the destination of the converted" - they whose eyes God opened and made the choice to remain seeing and become converted saints instead of their fellow sinners who chose to return to blind darkness.
Here's my idea . . .
God wrote a book, a book of names of all the people He would make, each one designed for love, to love and be loved, each one special, unique, treasured.
Sin entered, and all died, but meanwhile God was making arrangements. As sin was imputed to those who broke His Laws, God removed those names from His book, and not with pleasure.
In Christ, sin is not imputed, and our names are not removed. But God made all because God loves all. But not all love God.
Much love!
Mark
What? Only if they are on the hook to choose.
Otherwise . . . well, it's like saying my plastic soldiers, when I was a kid, were defenseless. And boy were they ever! Talk about lake of fire! They should never have given lighter fluid to my brother and I!
Much love!
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God opens all hearts for that purpose - again, "inequality of outcome" does not demand "inequality of opportunity" unless one is a leftist snowflake racist crybaby.
Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn
Sovereign choice says,
Choice is not ‘works’, it is ‘faith’.
Sovereign grace says,
Choice is not ‘works’, it is grace.
Sovereign choice says,
Choice is not ‘works’, it is ‘faith’.
Sovereign grace says,
Choice is not ‘works’, it is grace.
“Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man’s feet, whose name was Saul.” (Acts 7:57–58)
"Hereby we do know that we know Him, if, we keep His commandments. [None of us however keep his commandments, and therefore…] He that says, I know Him, and keeps not His commandments, is a LIAR and the truth is not in him. [“Yea, let God be true and every man a liar.”] But whoso does keep His word, in HIM verily, is the love of God perfected: whereby we, know that we are in Him…" because verily in none of us “is the love of God perfected”.
People love their sins and hate God unless he does a heart transplant.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Well, here's hoping you can get somewhere @Dave L with these guys, but they're philosophizing with their statements and making assertions -- they're not even using Scripture.
I don't usually decide to talk about a thing like this without reference to bible verses, though I am looser with my references And paraphrases. And I will talk about it with bible verses at some point, but I can't help thinking that we have moved backwards in some atrocious way if, in our zeal to only believe what the bible says, we can read a verse like the one given by dave and say, well there it is, God creates evil, rather than say, this obviously cannot be so, so the problem must be in my understanding.
Its too MUCH zeal, and I never thought I'd hear those words from my own mouth.
This has given me a sick headache. I just want someone to think about this and at least admit that they don't at all like the thought. I want someone to think and see and admit that the very thought of it makes them sick and queasy...
Well those that get the opportunity to hear the gospel only half will become Christians. That’s if you count every group from Catholics Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons. You remove any group you go to under 25% of the worlds population.
What really sad is that 40% of the worlds population will never hear about Jesus as seen in the scriptures. Yea 40 % won’t have the opportunity right off the bat .
Blessings
Bill
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Please instead of your unproven assertions, inflammatory non sequitur political remarks, and philosophising provide Scripture that says God opens all hearts, the heart of every single person ever. I can guess which Scripture you'll use that doesn't say nor imply this, but I'll allow you to provide it.
Try sticking with Scripture instead of the above?
Honestly, your remarks in quotations are quite leftist and "snow flake" in essence. They, as well as you, DEMAND all get the same "fairness." You're showing you are a Romans 9:20 person which is leftist snow flake ideology personified.
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