WhiteKnuckle (Alethos comments in bold)
The apostles drove out demons even after Jesus was resurrected. What were they driving out?
Commonly known today as many varying illnesses. The Greek believed in bad spirits and back then they didn’t have the names for illnesses like we do today. Do you believe someone who dies of cancer or has epilepsy is demon possessed?
I doubt it!
Jesus was perfect and sinless. There was no sin found in Him. Jesus was perfect in flesh, mind and spirit. He went to the wilderness to be tempted. Who was it that told Jesus, "All this I will give you, if you bow down to me."
Jesus was tempted in all points as we are yet without sin. This means his flesh was not perfect although he perfected obeyed his Father. The flesh had within it the law of death, inherited by Adam. If Jesus lived to be an old man he would have died naturally. Howver, you may be implying his life was perfect but in no way was his flesh perfect, it was dying! And he nailed his flesh to the cross because it useless to the Father, if there was any good in flesh God would have found a way to save it. Instead God killed it and His Son along with it. (Very humbling when understood God offered his son as a living sacrifice)
Those without Christ are considered "dead". Yet they breathe, walk, talk, see, eat, procreate, and do work.
True
If our battle isn't against the flesh, but against the powers and principalities of this world,,,,, What is the powers and principalities?
Extremely wrong! 100 verses would prove this to be incorrect. Powers and principalities are the ruling bodies who think they control the world. Jesus is returning to cast down the governments of this world, it’s his final work!
What about the serpent in the Garden of Eden? Who was that? Surely a mere snake/lizard would give a flip if Eve tasted the fruit of the tree of knowledge.
Was Adam a mere man? Yes
Was Eve a mere woman? Yes
Was the serpent a mere serpent? Yes
See the logic, even my 4 year old son understands this teaching!
How would God place in the garden an alternative way of thinking? A carnal animal mind is what was needed to test his children and their loyalty. READ Roman 8:1-17 and get back to me!!!
I just read a few things that brought to mind a different perspective.
One was on Gotquestions.org.
This one relates to the "angels who didn't keep their positions of authority and left their abode", as the angels who were the "sons of God who mated with daughters of men", at this these weren't fallen angels, but angels who left heaven to breed with women. They were cast into hell.
Do you believe angels can sin?
Please provide verses to support your understanding?
The others were cast down to earth, as the Angel said, "Woah to you inhabitants of the earth, for the devil has come down to you!". Satan was never said in the bible to be cast to hell, He was cast to earth.
What verse are you quoting here?
The only mention in the NT of Satan or the Devil that leads that he is destroyed, is when Jesus died on the cross and was resurected. The power of the devil had been broken and destroyed. Leaving him powerless over believers in Jesus. Even my Strongs says the devil is Satan, and says false accuser.
Yes, getting closer to the truth...the next question from Heb 2:14 is what had the power of death and what is the devil mentioned? And how did he die through the death of Jesus?
Say, we do consider the flesh/man to be the devil. The Bible says the devil doesn't rest day or night, he's like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. When we lay down at night, our flesh rests and replenishes itself. Our mind rests, our spirit rests. We sleep. Even though our organs work they aren't working near as hard as they do when we're awake. Our breathing is slower and deeper, our heart rate is decreased, and most other organs are on a slower pace and are rejuvenated. So, that leaves out that explanation of the devil.
The Flesh worldwide is practicing its lusts every day and night. Sin is constant in the Earth.
I've noticed a few things in the Bible.
Sometimes it speaks of someone as in a person being a devil, sometimes it speaks of the devil as in Satan. It's pretty clear on those points.
TRUE!
Manythings in the Bible are written as a common conversation using words in certain places that have different meanings in the context. Such as calling someone a devil, and using devil as a way to describe Satan.
TRUE!
So, the definition of devil, would not only be Satan, but a false accuser, slanderer or just a down right bad character.
TRUE!
Kind of like this too,,, "You old dog!" "You dirty rat!" Would I be speaking of a literal dog or a literal rat? Or would it be some quality that these creatures share with the person I'm speaking of?
VERY TRUE...no approach the scriptures armed with this understanding the lessons will jump off the pages.
Seems to me we get caught up in semantics alot. So, while we're lawyering and trying to figure semantics across several different languages, it's very hard to understand.
But, if we realize the ways of human conversation, they haven't changed much in thousands of years. Only the languages. It's easy to imagine people using figurative speech much the same back then as we do today.
My conclusion is this,
Satan and his angels were cast down to earth. At another time, other angels sinned in a different manner and were chained in hell waiting Judgment. Maybe to keep the free from sinning more because some would repent, as is mention Jesus ministered to the spirits in hell and 8 of which were saved.
Oh dear... you off into unfounded mysteries once again having come to the precipice and seeing afar off now you are clouded back in falsehood.
Satan and demons are roaming and seeking destruction.
If you mean flesh and its works you would be correct!
The power of Satan has been broken by Jesus on the cross,
How?
and the keys to death and hell were taken from him. Jesus now holds the keys to death and hell
Death and Hell are one in the same = GRAVE
All those who are in Christ are not subject to the rulings and "powers" of the devil and his followers, be them man or spirit.
Those in Christ can't be possessed, harmed, coaxed, or influenced beyond our control or what God has allowed for His own reasons for our strengthening and testing.
Everyone whether heathen of godly suffers from the same flesh. That’s why God can say he so loved the whole world that he gave his only begotten son...as John the Baptist said “all flesh is grass” There’s not one kind of flesh and then another.
Roman 6:23 Heb 2:14 1 John 3:8 1 Peter 1:24 Isaiah 40:6 – Isaiah 40 is the prophecy of John the Baptist preparing the way for Christ who is called the Son of Man (flesh)
Even if so, if the Devil is in chains of darkness, that doesn't mean locked up. They are in everlasting darkness, where we can explain darkness as evil as the Bible has the habit of speaking the same.
How dark it is in the grave?
This makes sense to me. Seems that if we claimed that Satan and his angels are locked in hell and chained up in dungeons that would make the rest of the Bible contradicting and leaves much to be explained.
However, a concession that I do make is that we as humans need no devil to influence us to do evil. It's not fair to give him that much credit.
You are almost there, a little more searching and testing the scriptures “proving all things” and you will see the fairy tales of demons and supernatural fallen angels is myth!
Our very nature is destructive through and through. It is abundantly clear that the devil is a being of spirit and influences who he can.
In conclusion, what I do like about your reasoning is some honest questions have been asked by yourself. However few here have closed their ears so that nothing can penetrate, they are deaf and almost blind. The same happened to the Pharisees when Jesus was teaching them...they reasoning among themselves i.e. God wasn’t involved in their thinking!
Our Father loves it when His children ask as many questions as possible, the more the merrier, I have found answers to all my questions.
I will leave you with a question.
If you desire eternal life and your hope is one of being rewarded in the Kingdom age and you believe in angels who can sin, why do you look forward to immortality with the potential to sin?
Doesn’t make sense, does it? Why would God reward you with a nature which is still capable of sinning? And Gods divine law states the wages of sin is death? Therefore angels is the sin MUST die!
Otherwise the God you worship is unjust and does not treat His children with equity. Regardless how you look at this the conclusion is always the same.
Angel cannot sin! And therefore you have no supernatural being.
Alethos
Ps God bless your searching