The Gift of Tongues

[Kidron]

This is one of those topics which divides believers.
its the other main reason Baptists and Pentecostals dont usually fellowship.

Ok, so lets nail this down so that the mystery is solved.
Here is what you need to know, so that you are not lost in the foggy confusion regarding this issue.

1st...."the gift of tongues", is not the same as a "prayer language".
Right here is where 99.998 % of believers/preachers get confused.
So, get that, and then you'll not be led off into any theological weirdness concerning this issue of "tongues:".

"Tongues" as in the (1st Corinthian 12:10) gift of tongues, is simply a "foreign language" that you are gifted to speak as need be based on the audience.
If you read Acts 2 carefully, you'll note that the bible states plainly that there were a lot of jews in Jerusalem on that day of Pentecost 2000 years ago when the upper room disciples began to speak with "other tongues"...(Acts 2:4).
Did you notice the word "other" in the KJV?.........this means, other then their language.
And then your bible explains why.
First........"tongues are for a sign", and "jews require a sign"....1st Corinthians 14:22 and 1:22

Do you remember that the Jews were always saying to Jesus..."what sign, sign, sign, sign, can you show us???.......and that is because God has always dealt with the Jews using signs., and as Jewish Jesus came to the "house of Israel", and not to the gentiles, they had a right to expect and seek for a Messiah who came armed with "signs"...
This is one of the reasons Jesus did so many miracles for the Jews.
"Signs"....he was providing them with the PROOF they were looking for, to signal to them their messiah had arrived.

You can also note in your bible, in Acts, that the "signs of an Apostle" (2nd Corinthians 12:12} were consistently found in the ministry of the apostles.

So, during Pentecost, the upper room was filled with the Spirit of God and the apostles/disciples began to speak in foreign languages.
They also became very wobbly and seemed drunk. (Acts 2:15)
Thats a bible fact.
Peter even states that "these men are not drunk as they seem".
So, this can be the powerful effect of the Spirit of God on a person.
It is also true that you can be born again and not feel anything.

If you read the account in Acts 1, it states that the Jews in Israel during the feast of Pentecost heard them speak in "their language" (Acts 2:6-8)....that is to say, they heard the "sign" of preaching being spoken in each language that was needed so that all who were there could hear the Word in their particular dialect../language
This is the spiritual "gift" of tongues., whereby an unlearned foreign language is able to come out of your mouth for the benefit of the audience that cant understand your language.

2.) If you continue in Acts, you'll note that in ( 10:44-45) there were Jews present while Peter was speaking the Word to some gentiles.
These gentiles were filled with the Spirit and began to speak with the same "tongues" that Peter had spoken with, which amazed him and the JEWS who were present.....(This was a SIGN to them).
Now keep in mind what is happening.
Peter (Acts 10:15) has just had the vision of the animals in the sheet which was lowered down from heaven......and he is told by God to "eat" what Jews are not supposed to eat according to the "law"..
God is showing him that what God says is clean is clean..
And the purpose is to get him ready for these >gentiles< that he preaches to who are given tongues as a sign to the JEWS and Peter who are standing there so that they understand that the gentiles are to be saved also.
Now get that, as that is so very important to understand.
The reason we know this is not a prayer language and is indeed the gift of tongues is because Peter compares it exactly to what he did in Acts 2..

Now, as long as you understand that there is a gift of tongues and there is a prayer language....separate things.......then you can keep yourself from being confused by ministers who dont understand this, and just roll it all into one.
However the gift of tongues, which is a foreign language gift of use to preach to Jews, or its given to preach to people who do not speak your language or you theirs..... is different then the individual prayer language that is given to edify you.

I wont go into all the debate at this point about if tongues are for today, or if everyone who gets saved is to speak in tongues, or if all the Apostles are dead and there are no more.
And the reason i wont is because this does not matter because, it does not matter.
Its a rabbit trail.
Simply understand the original reason for "Tongues" and why they were started and what they are, and this will keep you from being caught up in anything confusing and perhaps needless.

If you have a prayer language, then God bless you.
If you dont, then God bless you.
It does not warrant a fight or a division as this is nothing but pride and needless bickering that causes unbelievers to think you are nutz.

The main thing is to win souls, live holy, and understand your authority as a believer which is based on your position "in Christ".
Paul tells you in (1st Corinthians 12:31) to earnestly desire the best Spiritual gift, which is not tongues according to his list, and after he tells you this, he tells you that Charity is greater then any gift.
The fact is, if you dont love, if you dont give, and if you dont lead people to Christ, you are a blank in the Kingdom of God.
Thats a fact.
If you can walk on water, but you wont hand out a track or pray for someone's need, then you are not even close to doing the will of God.
So, keep your balance, stay away from being too concerned about these "gift" things, and remember that when you meet your Lord, he is not going to be concerned with tongues, but he IS going to be concerned with the fact that you led souls to him or not...

Keep the main thing the main thing.
Get busy.




K

 

[IanLC]

Exactly I agree.

 

[veteran]

I agree too, about the cloven tongue part. And I don't see 1 Cor.12 through 14 being about the cloven tongue at all, since the word "unknown" is not in the Greek manuscripts. Paul was talking about known languages of the world in those 1 Cor.12 through 14 chapters.

The day of Pentecost with the manifesting of the cloven tongue was only an ensample for the manifesting of Christ's Church. Peter revealed this point when he quoted from Joel 2 saying, "This is that..." (Acts 2:16). The Book of Joel (all of it) is specifically about the very end of this world, i.e., tribulation timing leading up to Christ's return. There's a particular coming event for that future time connected with the cloven tongue.

 

[Kidron]

I agree too, about the cloven tongue part. And I don't see 1 Cor.12 through 14 being about the cloven tongue at all, since the word "unknown" is not in the Greek manuscripts. Paul was talking about known languages of the world in those 1 Cor.12 through 14 chapters.

The day of Pentecost with the manifesting of the cloven tongue was only an ensample for the manifesting of Christ's Church. Peter revealed this point when he quoted from Joel 2 saying, "This is that..." (Acts 2:16). The Book of Joel (all of it) is specifically about the very end of this world, i.e., tribulation timing leading up to Christ's return. There's a particular coming event for that future time connected with the cloven tongue.

I agree too, about the cloven tongue part. And I don't see 1 Cor.12 through 14 being about the cloven tongue at all, since the word "unknown" is not in the Greek manuscripts. Paul was talking about known languages of the world in those 1 Cor.12 through 14 chapters.


"Unknown" in the sense that a uneducated fisherman was speaking a language he had not previously learned.
"Unknown" to him, yet known to the hearer.
This is the miracle and the gift.
To be able to suddenly speak a foreign language that is unknown to your vocabulary is not of yourself.
Its the "gift of tongues" or the ability to suddenly speak in an unknown (to you) foreign language.

Do you speak Chinese?
Me neither.
Yet, if i was called to China to preach, and God gifted me instantly with the ability to speak a language that is unknown to me....
Do you notice that the gift is not to be able to personqlly understand it?
But only to speak it..
Perhaps Peter did understand what he was speaking, however, what is more remarkable is that you had many "hearers" hearing in their language, Yet, only one mouth was speaking at once.
So, apparently, Peter's "unknown foreign language" gift, was to be able be able to be heard as MANY Languages =all at the same time.
Miraculous.
Some have stated that the gift was in the hearing, however, if this was so, there was be a "gift of hearing tongues" listed as one of the 9 gifts making it #10...




K

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[dragonfly]

Hi Kidron,

I've been in churches where tongues and interpretation (and other gifts) are expected to be exercised and given their place in a scriptural way. I've also heard preaching about tongues, and heard people talking about their prayer language, and seen many an argument over what was happening in Acts 2 as compared to the experience many Americans have had, of someone trying to 'teach' them to speak in tongues - or alternatively, that there is not such thing any more. I make this preamble so that my following comments have some kind of context in your understanding.

Peter did not preach in tongues. He preached in Greek, most likely.

Perhaps Peter did understand what he was speaking, however, what is more remarkable is that you had many "hearers" hearing in their language, Yet, only one mouth was speaking at once.
So, apparently, Peter's "unknown foreign language" gift, was to be able be able to be heard as MANY Languages =all at the same time.
Miraculous.

As you may have, I have also heard of tongues being given in preaching and evangelism situations, but this is an extension of what happened on the day of Pentecost.

All the disciples in the upper room that day, were speaking in tongues - not just Peter - when they poured out into the public meeting place. Only seventeen language groups (I believe) are named in Acts 2, but, there could have been more, since these Jews who had travelled, had come from many more nations than that.

If you go back and look at the text, it tells you what the tongues were saying, and it wasn't preaching.

The other comment I'd like to make is, that Paul talks of 'tongues of men and of angels', and therefore this has to be an explanation which we accept. The fact that the gift of interpretation is necessary for tongues to be any use at all in the assembly, must be (become) an accepted part of the context in which the gift is exercised within the body (of Christ).

A message in tongues, when the interpretation has been given, can then be properly evaluated, especially if it's a prophecy. If it's a prayer, the impact amongst the believers is different. There is also a need for discernment as to whether the interpretation is really and only the interpretation, because occasionally someone may speak after a tongue, as if it is the interpretation, but it is a separate word from God in its own right (prophecy).

I think you are taking rather a lot upon yourself to say that a 'prayer language' is not 'the gift of tongues', as this distinction is not made in scripture. The distinction which is made, is that not everyone receives the gift of tongues. Who are you (or anyone) to say that God will never call upon a person who has the gift, to prophesy in tongues for the edification of the body? Remember, the man who travelled to a far country, gave his servants talents, and they seemed to know they were supposed to make the work in such a way as to gain increase. This can happen with the gifts of the Spirit - that a person who has exercised the gift(s) they knew they had received, finds themselves with more. Amen.

 

[Kidron]

Hi Kidron,



Peter did not preach in tongues. He preached in Greek, most likely.

This ^^^^^^ is true if the bible lied where it said that "tounges" was the means......OR, if most of the Jews at Pentecost 2000 years ago spoke Greek.



As you may have, I have also heard of tongues being given in preaching and evangelism situations, but this is an extension of what happened on the day of Pentecost.

You are hearing a "prayer language" which as i spoke about, is not the "gift of Tounges"..



If you go back and look at the text, it tells you what the tongues were saying, and it wasn't preaching.

"preaching" is simply the sharing of a verbal message, and in Acts 2, as Peter was preaching, all who heard him were astonished as he was sharing his message in "their" language or their "tongue"., is what you bible says.


The other comment I'd like to make is, that Paul talks of 'tongues of men and of angels', and therefore this has to be an explanation which we accept. The fact that the gift of interpretation is necessary for tongues to be any use at all in the assembly, must be (become) an accepted part of the context in which the gift is exercised within the body (of Christ).

Once again, try not to overlap and thereby confuse the "prayer language" with one of the 9 spiritual "gifts", with one of the 9 being the ability to speak a foreign language (tongue)

A message in tongues, when the interpretation has been given, can then be properly evaluated, especially if it's a prophecy. If it's a prayer, the impact amongst the believers is different. There is also a need for discernment as to whether the interpretation is really and only the interpretation, because occasionally someone may speak after a tongue, as if it is the interpretation, but it is a separate word from God in its own right (prophecy).

Once again, try not to confuse and overlap what someone is doing in your church, (prayer language) with the "gift of a foreign language", like GERMAN, or FRENCH, or SPANISH, or HEBREW, that they have been miraculously equipped to SPEAK = "gift of tongues".

I think you are taking rather a lot upon yourself to say that a 'prayer language' is not 'the gift of tongues', as this distinction is not made in scripture. The distinction which is made, is that not everyone receives the gift of tongues. Who are you (or anyone) to say that God will never call upon a person who has the gift, to prophesy in tongues for the edification of the body? Remember, the man who travelled to a far country, gave his servants talents, and they seemed to know they were supposed to make the work in such a way as to gain increase. This can happen with the gifts of the Spirit - that a person who has exercised the gift(s) they knew they had received, finds themselves with more.


I simply explained using the scriptures why tongues are given, what they are, and how they are different from a "prayer language"..
Its up to you to confuse it and try to mislead
So, the first thing you need to do, is to understand that a "prayer language", is not one of the 9 gifts of the Spirit
Once you get this right, you will be able to help your pastor or whomever is trying to mislead you.


K

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[dragonfly]

Hi Kidron,

Without falling back on the doctrine you've been taught, please look at scripture again (and possibly I bit of extra-biblical research to confirm which language Peter is most likely to have preached in, to an international crowd of Jews, the record of which we have in Acts 2).

And using scripture only, please bring to this discussion, the verses from which you deduce a separation between 'speaking in tongues' and a 'prayer language' (the latter not being mentioned in scripture, as we know).


Many thanks, and may God bless you abundantly as you consider your reply.

 

[veteran]

...........

As I stated before, the word "unknown" of 1 Cor.12 through 14 IS NOT IN THE NEW TESTAMENT GREEK MANUSCRIPTS. It was ADDED by the translators.

What Apostle Paul was talking about were Greek 'glossa', which mean known languages of the world.

Even though many of us do not speak Chinese or another foreign language, those are KNOWN languages of the world, i.e., Greek glossa.

Even though Paul mentions an 'idea' of languages of angels, he was only using that as a figure of speech.

The cloven tongue of Pentecost per Acts 2 was UNDERSTOOD BY ALL PRESENT. Acts 2 per the Greek is very specific on that point, using the Greek words glossa (languages) and dialektos (dialects) in alternation.

If someone goes to preach The Gospel to a people of another language the speaker does not know, and The Holy Spirit translates the speaker's words so those people can understand, even in their own dialects of their birth, THAT is the SIGN of the True cloven tongue which the Apostles spoke on Pentencost. God knows how we speak and hear.

The matter is about the one language which all nations originally spoke prior to the tower of Babel incident. That language is going to return to us all in God's future Kingdom (Zephaniah 3:9).

Thus I am not against the idea of the 'cloven' tongue of Pentecost. What I am against is the idea of confusion, for God is not the author of confusion as written. This is why ALL present on the day of Pentecost UNDERSTOOD the Apostles in their own dialect of birth, even as it was declared they heard them speak about "the wonderful works of God".