The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism

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bbyrd009

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If so… you could be in grave error not knowing the power of God and how He truly operates
ever notice that virtually all believers say “The Bible is the Word?” yet none of them can provide a single v that conflates the two, as you have failed to do, and they all ignore the many vv that say otherwise?
weird, huh?

why is it that believers need the Bible to be the Word so bad, i wonder? I think its related to ppl saying the Bible is “holy,” dunno, but something i notice is that as soon as you disagree with one of them on some interpretation, you suddenly become “lost, not in the Spirit, not saved, a heretic,” etc
lol
 

Bible Highlighter

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ah well im ok with you believing that for now, if you like
"In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God"

so ty anyway, and have a nice day
wadr i was saying "the Bible is the Word" like forty years ago, k
I can say that,

"The dog's bark could be heard all the way down the street, He scratched his paws against the bark of tree at the squirrel up in the tree (hoping to get the little guy)."​

As you can see there are two words spelled as "bark" but yet they have two different meanings.
These are called homonyms and they do exist in the Bible.

For example: Sons of God can refer to either a believer, or angels. It depends on the context. The same is true with the word “naked.” Yes, at the heart… “naked” means to be exposed, but it has different variations of meaning within the Bible (Which is determined by the context). The word “repent” also has different meanings in the Bible. You have to rightly divide based on the context (reading the chapter or chapters and looking at the surrounding words in the sentence), and by asking God for the understanding by His Spirit and in some cases, by looking at different translations.

The below passage makes it clear that Scripture can be called the Word of God.

Mark 7:10-13 (NKJV)
10 ”For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’​
11 But you say,​
‘If a man says to his father or mother,​
“Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”​
—’ (that is, a gift to God),​
12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother,​
13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”​

For Honor your father and mother is from the Laws of Moses (Which is written in Scripture), and Jesus says that these Jews have made the Word of God of no effect by their tradition. Jesus is referring directly back to the written Word.

So obviously the Word who is God in John 1:1, and John 1:14 is in reference to Jesus.
But in Mark 7:13, it is in reference to the written Word of God.

Yes, they are…

Homonyms!
You can deny them all you like, but it simply is the truth of how things are.

BTW ~ What is your education level?
What were your grades in English class?

In any event, getting back on topic:

Sinless Perfection is taught in the Bible. It’s the goal of every Christian to seek to reach such a state in this life.
God’s grace, and the Sanctification of the Spirit is what will help a believer to teach that goal.
But most today want to justify some level of sin (Unfortunately).
 
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Taken

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The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism

Sinless Perfectionism is a doctrine like that. In short, it holds that it is possible for Christians to completely defeat sin in the present life and to live holy lives like Jesus did. At a glance, it makes a lot of sense. Jesus came to save us from sin. He died for our sins on the cross and he sent his Holy Spirit to empower his people to overcome sin and to live obedient, righteous lives in the present (Titus 2:11-14). Christians should have the highest aspirations for living holy lives and rejecting all sin.

The DOCTRINE ... of ONE person, is TYPICALLY misconstrued BY the MIS-UNDERSTANDING of ANOTHER Person.

What is the Doctrine of “sinless perfection”....I have only heard those words, from ONE, who is DECIDING what an other Believes, THEN disagreeing with it.

Fact is: ONLY an individual is Accountable FOR WHAT “THEY” say for “THEMSELVES”.....NOT for what Others say FOR THEM.

Sinless Perfectionism is Unbiblical

I would agree: Claiming to be SINLESS, IS unbiblical.
I would disagree: Claiming to be PERFECTED, is NOT unbiblical.

I would also disagree: Men rolling such a phrase ( sinless perfection ) together and Deciding that is an other’s claim....while never quoting any other making such a claim.....IS DISINGENUOUS.

However, the Bible also says that ‘If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us’ (1 John 1:8). It

J.

Ah ha..the Typical go to Scriptural QUOTE, to bolster the claim AGAINST (sinless perfection ).... which such claim routinely only appears BY an Accuser.

Scripture never speaks of a SINLESS earthly man.
1 John 1:8...expressly speaks of a man WHO CLAIMS TO HAVE NO SIN.

That Scripture IS utterly irrelevant....UNTIL A MAN CLAIMS to HAVE NO SIN.

To PRETEND that IS the Doctrine of ANY MAN, IF no man claims that;
IS DISINGENUOUS.

It is widely agreeable among Christian teachings;
ALL MEN ARE NATURALLY BORN IN SIN.
NOT once have I heard verbally or seen printed ANYONE claim THEY were naturally born WITHOUT HAVING SIN.

Scriptural teaching DOES absolutely TEACH;
God FORGIVES Sin..of some men.
God WASHES Sin...of some men.
God COVERS Sin...of some men.


Never have seen Scriptural teaching, of SIN vanishing from natural mans BODY, to effect that man thereafter HAVING no SIN.

Scriptural teaching IS: Forgiven, Washed, Covered SIN OF a natural mans BODY......is a natural mans BODY, that SHALL BE RAISED UP in a new body.
It is at the TIME of the Raising UP, WHEN the body IS “uncorrupted, glorified, and VOID of HAVING SIN”....SINLESS.


Regarding the WORD....”root word” PERFECT...
YES...their IS Scriptural teaching OF MEN WHO BECOME PERFECT-ED.

It is disingenuous to roll a phrase of words together AND MAKE claims FOR OTHERS, which ARE FALSE.

All natural men are BORN IN SIN.
All natural men have COMMITTED SIN.
Men all HAVE SIN in their body’s.
( and WHY, all men WITH God, shall Eventually receive A NEW BODY!)

Forgiven SIN, is Forgiven By God...the sin didn’t disappear...it was Forgiven.
A man WHO IS BAPTIZED with the Holy Spirit...has the Spirit of God IN him.
The Spirit of God IS LIGHT.
The Spirit of God IN a man, COVERS, overcomes the darkness of the SIN a man HAS in his body...WITH Gods LIGHT/Spirit.
God NO LONGER, SEES, the forgiven, covered, overcome SIN in that mans body.
That which God No Longer Sees......IS, BY God.....Forgotten, Remembered “NO MORE”.

A man WITH the Spirit of God “IN” him (Holy Spirit Baptism)....
HAS ALSO receiv-ED, the SEED of God, which births the man’s NEW SPIRIT.

Such man...Holy Spirit Baptized....forgiven, washed, covered, overcome, Has his SOUL “saved”, Has Gods Spirit, Has Gods Seed........is CALLED: SANCTIFIED....ie..SET APART.

THAT MAN......”accounted DEAD BODY...CAN SIN .......’NO MORE”...
THAT MAN’S natural body IS (according to God) ACCOUNTED DEAD, already accounted AS HAVING PAID it’s ONE requirement of DYING.

(As God Himself has APPOINTED ALL mens natural body’s to DIE ONCE.)

THAT MAN.....”IS” given the Lord Jesus’ RISEN Body to DWELL IN.....
UNTIL the mans OWN “new” body is Risen UP.

A MAN having received Gods Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Dwelling IN Jesus’ Risen Body........

IS CALLED; “IN” Christ.
IS CALLED; Christ “IN” him.
IS CALLED; “PREFECT-ED IN” Christ.
IS CALLED: “Sanctified”...ie SET APART unto the Lord God.
IS CALLED: “Delivered”....ie NOT APPOINTED to Wrath from Heaven.
IS CALLED; “Justified”......ie TO BE, REDEEMED; risen up By the Lord, IN their own NEW glorified body.
IS CALLED; “CAN SIN NO MORE

Sinning NO MORE, does not mean, Never sinned, Has no sin, or is sinless.


Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Men making up convoluted phrases of words and pretending those are an others beliefs, doctrines is disingenuous and corrupt.

The MYTH, is pretending something IS while never QUOTING ANYONE having made such claims.
 

Taken

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Sinless Perfection is taught in the Bible. It’s the goal of every Christian to seek to reach such a state in this life.

Agree Sinless Perfection is taught in the Bible as a goal for every man to consider.

Would Agree, the election to pursue the goal IS MADE DURING a mans NATURAL life time.

Disagree, the goal comes into FRUITION DURING a mans NATURAL life time.

A mans BODY can BE ACCOUNTED CHANGED BY GOD.
A mans BODY IS NOT manifested CHANGED UNTIL AFTER:..
.it IS DEAD and RAISED up.

A man IN Christ’s risen body....is Perfected IN Christ.
An Earthly mans Natural body IS NEVER...sinless.


A mans Earthly body was created “very good”....not sinless.
A mans Earthly living body never becomes sinless.

Perfect-ED IN Christ, yes. (It’s HIS glorified, sinless Body one dwells in)
Sinless Earthly body, no.
 

Lizbeth

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Did a search of the scriptures and the picture that emerges, if I'm not mistaken, is that the word of the Lord/word of God is a living God-breathed prophetic word or vision or dream - message - which prophetic men could and often did write down. Even the Law was given prophetically to Moses by the Spirit of God and then written down. The gospel also, direct from the mouth of Jesus Christ (God in the flesh) who preached and proclaimed the gospel prophetically, ie, in spirit, (and then later through His apostles and other believers). Over and over again in the old testament we read that "the word of the Lord" came to or was given to Abram, Moses, Samuel, Jeremiah, etc. So the word of God is a living message that comes from His mouth and spirit so to speak.

But His word doesn't necessarily have to be written down, as Christ/God is alive and He still speaks to His people today. The word of the Lord can come to anyone He wants to speak to, and His sheep know His voice.....however, we use the scriptures that have been written down in the will and unction of God to test what we or anyone may receive or say.

Typically when we speak of God's word we usually understand one another to be referring to the scriptures...but I believe it's important to remember that scripture is/was all a living God-breathed prophetic word direct from Him, which was then written down or maybe sometimes simultaneously written down. And the truth that was written down is still "ALIVE and active" and has never passed away....it needs to be held and treated as such....ie, in spirit.

We are not worshiping "a book" but we are holding in the highest esteem the living word of the Lord and worshiping the God who gave/gives us those precious life giving messages of truth and light. SO THAT we might know and be reconciled to the Living God, without which mankind lives on in ignorance and darkness.
 

prism

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Did a search of the scriptures and the picture that emerges, if I'm not mistaken, is that the word of the Lord/word of God is a living God-breathed prophetic word or vision or dream - message - which prophetic men could and often did write down. Even the Law was given prophetically to Moses by the Spirit of God and then written down. The gospel also, direct from the mouth of Jesus Christ (God in the flesh) who preached and proclaimed the gospel prophetically, ie, in spirit, (and then later through His apostles and other believers). Over and over again in the old testament we read that "the word of the Lord" came to or was given to Abram, Moses, Samuel, Jeremiah, etc. So the word of God is a living message that comes from His mouth and spirit so to speak.

But His word doesn't necessarily have to be written down, as Christ/God is alive and He still speaks to His people today. The word of the Lord can come to anyone He wants to speak to, and His sheep know His voice.....however, we use the scriptures that have been written down in the will and unction of God to test what we or anyone may receive or say.

Typically when we speak of God's word we usually understand one another to be referring to the scriptures...but I believe it's important to remember that scripture is/was all a living God-breathed prophetic word direct from Him, which was then written down or maybe sometimes simultaneously written down. And the truth that was written down is still "ALIVE and active" and has never passed away....it needs to be held and treated as such....ie, in spirit.

We are not worshiping "a book" but we are holding in the highest esteem the living word of the Lord and worshiping the God who gave/gives us those precious life giving messages of truth and light. SO THAT we might know and be reconciled to the Living God, without which mankind lives on in ignorance and darkness.
If someone says “Thus saith the Lord…”, and then proceeds with an utterance, how would you test to see if it truly was from God apart from the written objective Word of God (The Scriptures)?
 

RLT63

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If someone says “Thus saith the Lord…”, and then proceeds with an utterance, how would you test to see if it truly was from God apart from the written objective Word of God (The Scriptures)?
When someone says “Thus saith the Lord “ it makes me wonder why God would speak in King James’ English
 
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bbyrd009

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But in Mark 7:13, it is in reference to the written Word of God
well, or the Decalogue, which was actually written by God, but whatever

Sinless Perfection is taught in the Bible
well maybe, sort of, but i suggest that we have warped that one as well,
8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us


It’s the goal of every Christian to seek to reach such a state in this life
which should imo be a lesson all by itself, yes

But most today want to justify some level of sin (Unfortunately)
yes, ok, and see how you are anxious to condemn them, like most believers? Do you have no sin? Yet you cast the first stone, yes?

You are in a place in your walk right now where you cannot discuss—which dont get me wrong, i understand, but this is made obvious by your lack of address to my posts, and other indicators—but fwiw i will say again that Word and the Bible are related, sure; but they are not the same thing, even if it is understandable to conflate them. Bam keep saying that they are the same, that others may know where you are spiritually, and i dont mean this facetiously ok

And also keep reaching for sinless perfection—if you like—but understand that when that fails you, there are more steps on that ladder, ok? After all, Jacob was called “supplanter,” yet it was Esau whom Yah “had hated” right.

But i am passing curious what you believe might happen were you to reach that lofty state, anyway? I imagine that you would be crucified too, dont you?
 
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Bible Highlighter

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First, you are quoting a reply I made to Bbyrd009. We were talking about his disagreement over how the word “Word” cannot possibly refer also to the Scriptures (or the Bible) in addition to Jesus Christ (Which is a brief side issue). This article is dealing with your disagreement primarily over King James Only-ism. Again, these topics are not even the topics of the thread. You both have an art for wanting to disrupt another person’s thread (with little care or respect for his topic). Second, in reply to your link: Mr Will Kinney makes a great case against Mr Price’s nonsense.


But again, this whole side issue of not believing in a perfect Bible that exists today that we can hold in our hands is a diversion to when Johann had disagreed with the plain words in English for 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Galatians 5:24. He prefers to select some definition he prefers by acting like he spent his entire life studying the original languages and claiming superiority over the 47 translators on the King James Bible (with many of them actually knowing the Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Greek). I helped to show Johann how Calvinism is wrong by just using a plain and simple English Bible. I am not sure if he reverted back to Calvinism or not, but the point here is that I did not play any game using the Original Languages with him (Whereby I was attempting to undo what the Bible says in English). The point here is that most come up with an idea in their mind of what they want to be true or they latch on to popular Christianity and their way of thinking instead of just reading and believing the Bible for themselves (With the help of God by way of prayer). Most just follow their own thoughts or the popular thoughts of others. This is at the heart of why many today reject overcoming sin in this life in the Bible. It is man who desires to sin. God does not want you to sin; And neither is God (the Maker of the Heavens and the Earth) powerless to help man in this life to achieve that goal. There is nothing greater than God. Sin is not greater than God. God is more powerful than sin. But men like sin, and they seek to defend it. That’s what this thread is really about (Whether somebody justifies a little bit of sin or a lot of sin - it makes no difference). When one has a mindset to justify sin on any level, they are agreeing with the First Adam and not with the Last Adam (Jesus Christ).

Paul says we have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16).
Obviously many here do not have the mind of Christ because they defend how they must sin a little again.
Yet, Jesus never justified sin ever (Because He is God).
 

bbyrd009

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But again, this whole side issue of not believing in a perfect Bible that exists today that we can hold in our hands is a diversion to when Johann had disagreed with the plain words in English for 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Galatians 5:24. He prefers to select some definition he prefers by acting like he spent his entire life studying the original languages and claiming superiority over the 47 translators on the King James Bible
and arent we warned about scribes, in the Bible itself? I tell you that that is one of my major concerns about calling the Bible “Word.” So now any scribe who is given a pen and a lexicon can write some “Word,” see. Good luck with that, ok; “The Bible is the Word” is strictly something said by men who wish to recommend themselves to each other imo
 
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bbyrd009

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The point here is that most come up with an idea in their mind of what they want to be true or they latch on to popular Christianity and their way of thinking instead of just reading and believing the Bible for themselves (With the help of God by way of prayer). Most just follow their own thoughts or the popular thoughts of others.
dont most xtians deem the Bible “Word?”

This is at the heart of why many today reject overcoming sin in this life in the Bible
i have not found any of these believers yet, not anywhere in the world; who rejects overcoming sin?
i tell you, you are in a bad place right now
best of luck to you ok
 

Bible Highlighter

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well, or the Decalogue, which was actually written by God, but whatever

well maybe, sort of, but i suggest that we have warped that one as well,
8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us


which should imo be a lesson all by itself, yes

yes, ok, and see how you are anxious to condemn them, like most believers? Do you have no sin? Yet you cast the first stone, yes?

You are in a place in your walk right now where you cannot discuss—which dont get me wrong, i understand, but this is made obvious by your lack of address to my posts, and other indicators—but fwiw i will say again that Word and the Bible are related, sure; but they are not the same thing, even if it is understandable to conflate them. Bam keep saying that they are the same, that others may know where you are spiritually, and i dont mean this to be sarcastic ok

And also keep reaching for sinless perfection—if you like—but understand that when that fails you, there are more steps on that ladder, ok? After all, Jacob was called “supplanter,” yet it was Esau whom Yah “had hated” right.

But i am passing curious what you believe might happen were you to reach that lofty state, anyway? I imagine that you would be crucified too, dont you?
What you are doing is….

“I have an idea I like and prefer and so now I am going to use the Bible to defend these false ideas I prefer (That exists only in mind).”
You are not trying to figure out the context and or trying to be corrected. You are focusing a laser beam on certain verses and drawing a wrong conclusion.
For example: 1 John 1:8. Please show in the context that John was trying to make a case how we all sin and we cannot help but to sin and if we claim we are not having some kind of sin in our life… we are deceived. Please. Just show me one verse besides 1 John 1:10 (Which is a denial of past sin) that defends your sin and still be saved interpretation on 1 John 1:8. If you cannot do so…. Then you are simply ripping a verse out context to the rest of the Bible.
Also, believers enter the Sanctification of the Spirit in order to EVENTUALLY reach a state of Sinless Perfection in this life.
It takes time to learn and grow. Nowhere am I stating that a believer is instantly a super saint the first day of their service to the Lord Jesus Christ. It takes time to grow and learn God’s Word and apply to your life. Nobody here is claiming they are a super saint instantly although there are some believers who do hold to that viewpoint (of whom I disagree with).
 

Bible Highlighter

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and arent we warned about scribes, in the Bible itself? I tell you that that is one of my major concerns about calling the Bible “Word.” So now any scribe who is given a pen and a lexicon can write some “Word,” see. Good luck with that, ok; it is strictly something said by men who wish to recommend themselves to each other imo
I am not a scribe. A scribe transcribes the Law or the Scriptures. They copy out the Scriptures and they sometimes copy it from one language to another. I am just relaying to you what the Bible says. That’s not a scribe. Jesus condemned the Scribes. Jesus said beware of the Scribes… and so that means not everyone is a scribe. This again just shows your lack of not knowing the Bible. Please read your Bible more.

But again… this is a diversion of the topic.
The topic is involving Sinless Perfection (of which the Bible teaches in many places - but you guys love to reject).
 

bbyrd009

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15So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’a described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),
16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains
 

bbyrd009

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Which is a denial of past sin
ok, so we could wait a day if you like, but really ten seconds ago is the past, right, and you are swimming in sin as we speak, see. literally drowning in it. you just threw some plastic away, etc

Also, believers enter the Sanctification of the Spirit in order to EVENTUALLY reach a state of Sinless Perfection in this life.
so you say, yes, but you speak in absolutes and facts, like anyone else under the law would, ergo it would be pointless for me to present the real reason “believers enter the sanctification of the Spirit,” would it not?

You are still seeking to become immortal after you have died, right?
So wadr there is not enough room on this page to splain to you how hopelessly sideways you currently are lol
 

bbyrd009

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It takes time to learn and grow.
”here a little there a little” right?
lol
little kids dont do that at all tho, do they? In the moment, i mean
over time, sure

Nowhere am I stating that a believer is instantly a super saint the first day of their service to the Lord Jesus Christ.
well, since you insist on speaking in facts and presenting evidence as one under the law would, i would suggest that when someone is still cognizant of their first love might be the only day that they are a super saint, lol

It takes time to grow and learn God’s Word and apply to your life.
yet see, you cant Quote “learn God’s Word” one single time, and little children dont do any of that either, now do they? Really you seem to be—what was the phrase—“The point here is that most come up with an idea in their mind of what they want to be true or they latch on to popular Christianity and their way of thinking instead of just reading and believing the Bible for themselves,” meaning no offense
 
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bbyrd009

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I am not a scribe
i never said you were?

I am just relaying to you what the Bible says. That’s not a scribe
lol, priceless, ty

This again just shows your lack of not knowing the Bible. Please read your Bible more
it just gets richer and richer lol
ok tks ill take a look at that

The topic is involving Sinless Perfection (of which the Bible teaches in many places - but you guys love to reject).
little kids “sin” all the time, but we give them a pass, huh

no offense but i think ill keep overlooking a matter, and practicing forgiveness, that i might be forgiven, and confessing my sins, one to another, and ill let you be judge and jury and claim that you are sinlessly perfect, ok?
 

bbyrd009

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and just since im here, ill say that i would also run from anyone who even utters the word “sin” regularly, and seek those who say words like”patience, forebearance, forgiveness”