The gods of amil.

[jeffweeder]

That's because they're amils. They don't believe in Christ establishing His own reign over earth, much less His people.

They are Amills because they believe what Christ has said about what happens at his coming.
Would you like to go first in quoting what he has directly said about his coming and how it relates to the placement of the millennium?

Which is fine by me. It's this devilish amillennial millennialism of church militant mutants, that think they will get to end their reign with bludgeoning everyone to death. A real success story there.

I think many of us have addressed that as being something foreign to us Gilligan.
It is premill holding the rod of Iron in a future millenium not Amill. What are you guys think you're going to do with it??? Love to hear all about that.

 

[David in NJ]

First and foremost, you must discern that there are at least two schools of thought with Amillennial viewpoints.
1. The indoctrinated views of religion and it's years of tradition, through the wisdom of men.
2. The independent views of born again Christians, who each do agree collectively on the fundamentals, through the authority of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
1 Cor. 2:5

Instead of believing in 'Amil' why not believe the words of God.

 

[WPM]

Instead of believing in 'Amil' why not believe the words of God.

The 2 are synonymous. You cannot even address the biblical evidence. The proof is found in every thread. Premil is crumbling like never before. The debate has been won.

 

[WPM]

They are Amills because they believe what Christ has said about what happens at his coming.
Would you like to go first in quoting what he has directly said about his coming and how it relates to the placement of the millennium?

I think many of us have addressed that as being something foreign to us Gilligan.
It is premill holding the rod of Iron in a future millenium not Amill. What are you guys think you're going to do with it??? Love to hear all about that.

These posts/threads of disinformation and lies are proof that Premils cannot deal with what Amils really believe. They have now shifted to inventing lies and perpetrating deceit. They have to. These strawmen arguments are the only thing they have now. This is a sign that the battle for truth has been won. They cannot address the simple biblical evidence. The proof is found in every recent thread.

The more they do this the more popular Amil is becoming on these online forums.

Premil is crumbling before our eyes.

 

[Gilligan]

There is no OSAS or Amil I know believes this nonsense.

I know that. You just teach it. You're all doctrine speak and no substance.

It is a delusion in your head. Your hatred and venom for fellow believers is palpable.

I love all my fellow believers. I just reject your airy beliefs.

You obviously misrepresent both of these 2 doctrines because you have no Scripture to refute them.

Not all OSAS are pseudo-mils like yourself. Nor are all amils OSAS. But I bet every single spiritual mil is OSAS.

You're not resurrected into heaven, nor do you reign with Christ anywhere. Unless you repent of your sins, the grave will teach you the truth.

Until you do and until you manifest a Christian character I am ignoring your nonsense.

I would say thank you, but like some others on this sight, your word is meaningless. You'll be back. You can't help yourself. You've just got to keep copy and pasting, because doctrine-speak is all you've got.

ANd you especially have to keep throwing more words at people that reject your spiritualism. Like a moth to the flame.

You are obviously trying to goad and inflame fellow Christian and the truth. It is up to the Mods to cut across your bitterness. I am not going to waste my time talking to a clown.

I'm not the one calling you a clown. If you want to go to them, go ahead. I have your words saved for the record. I could report you right now, and you'd get a warning. But I don't want you to go away just yet. I'm still looking to see if you have something new to correct. I have a file on the errors of OSAS and of pseudo spiritual millennialism.

 

[Gilligan]

I have no idea who you think believes all of this we are never Gods. We believe what Paul actually taught shown below

Many people write doctrinal things from their own minds, that they don't believe, when all their fluffy doctrine-speak is removed.

Since you can't show how my analysis of their words is incorrect, then it's true.

Those who claim to be already resurrected with Christ and reigning with Him in heaven and on earth, are doctrinally claiming to be gods. I'll also bet their still living in sin too. It's all just a doctrinal game of justifying themselves by words alone.

If I really believe I am already resurrected into heaven as an angel, and reigning with Christ, then I wouldn't care what I do on earth, because I'm already spiritually arrived, and it's just a matter of time before my body catches up with me in heaven.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Spiritual millennialism is the imaginary playground of would-be rulers of heaven and earth.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is one of the most controversial verses

The first step of all false teaching is to make the simple into something complicated and controversial. Liberals do it all the time. They make a moral standard into a 'complicated issue'.

These are the resurrected saints at Christ's coming who reigned with Him on earth a thousand years. Simple.

in the entire bible and a lot of Christians believe that it has to be a future

I'm not sitting on any throne in heaven judging others. Are you?

event because they believe that it's on the resurrection day. But according to Paul he stated three times that it was a current reality back in his day.

Here below are the three texts.

Ephesians 2:4-6
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

In the verses above Paul states that we were already made alive, raised up and seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.

And so you do think think you are resurrected and sitting on a throne in heaven reigning and judging with Christ.

You see how people can make doctrine say anything? Your spiritual millennialism is just words with no substance. Tell any child or any person on the street that you are now reigning on a throne in heaven, and they'll tell you how delusional you are, or just ignore you. If you try to enforce your heavenly reign and judgment, then they may just call the police and have you put in a padded cell.

Colossians 3:1
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Once again Paul states that we have already been raised up with Christ.

Spiritual millennialism is a delusion. Get your feet back on solid ground of earth, where you still are, and try again.

If you were actually doing the word of God, rather than making an intellectually spiritual mess of it, then you would teach it rightly.

Romans 5:17
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Finally in the verse above Paul states that we reign in life through Jesus.

Correct. We righteously reign in our lives by Christ not to sin. That's the full extent of our reigning until the resurrection of the dead.

And if we're still sinning, then we're not even doing that much, but death still reigns over us.

There is no spiritual-only millennium, resurrection, nor coming again of Jesus Christ. It's as imaginary as faith alone.

All of these verses were a current reality while alive in the physical body almost two thousand years ago. If it was a reality back, then it is still a reality today.

Then send an angel to tell me you're now sitting on a throne in heaven.

Or show me your power on earth to rule nations. Just one will do.

Paul ties three events directly to Revelation 20:4 "that we have been made alive", "seated with Christ in the heavenly realms" and that "we reign (in life) through Jesus".

I've already corrected this, and have been ignored. Once is enough.

Why do so many Christians not accept this even though Paul declares it?

You declaring Paul declares it, does not make Paul declare it.

Because they are focused on it being physical not spiritual. They focus on the physical because it mentions saints that were beheaded by the beast and the thousand years.

But let's let scripture interpret scripture. Paul teaches that its spiritual

A spirit-only millennium is spiritual delusion.

Thus, according to Paul we reign in life now

In your life only. Otherwise, send me one of your angels, or show me one of your nations.

I'll tell you what. Just get Biden out of the White House, and that'll be good enough for me. Don't wait for any election and claim credit. Do it yourself personally with your own power to rule on earth.

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

You're spirit-only millennium stuff is just doctrinal vain imagination. Do your word, then I'll believe it.

 

[David in NJ]

Many people write doctrinal things from their own minds, that they don't believe, when all their fluffy doctrine-speak is removed.

Since you can't show how my analysis of their words is incorrect, then it's true.

Those who claim to be already resurrected with Christ and reigning with Him in heaven and on earth, are doctrinally claiming to be gods. I'll also bet their still living in sin too. It's all just a doctrinal game of justifying themselves by words alone.

If I really believe I am already resurrected into heaven as an angel, and reigning with Christ, then I wouldn't care what I do on earth, because I'm already spiritually arrived, and it's just a matter of time before my body catches up with me in heaven.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Spiritual millennialism is the imaginary playground of would-be rulers of heaven and earth.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


The first step of all false teaching is to make the simple into something complicated and controversial. Liberals do it all the time. They make a moral standard into a 'complicated issue'.

These are the resurrected saints at Christ's coming who reigned with Him on earth a thousand years. Simple.


I'm not sitting on any throne in heaven judging others. Are you?


And so you do think think you are resurrected and sitting on a throne in heaven reigning and judging with Christ.

You see how people can make doctrine say anything? Your spiritual millennialism is just words with no substance. Tell any child or any person on the street that you are now reigning on a throne in heaven, and they'll tell you how delusional you are, or just ignore you. If you try to enforce your heavenly reign and judgment, then they may just call the police and have you put in a padded cell.


Spiritual millennialism is a delusion. Get your feet back on solid ground of earth, where you still are, and try again.

If you were actually doing the word of God, rather than making an intellectually spiritual mess of it, then you would teach it rightly.


Correct. We righteously reign in our lives by Christ not to sin. That's the full extent of our reigning until the resurrection of the dead.

And if we're still sinning, then we're not even doing that much, but death still reigns over us.

There is no spiritual-only millennium, resurrection, nor coming again of Jesus Christ. It's as imaginary as faith alone.


Then send an angel to tell me you're now sitting on a throne in heaven.

Or show me your power on earth to rule nations. Just one will do.


I've already corrected this, and have been ignored. Once is enough.


You declaring Paul declares it, does not make Paul declare it.


A spirit-only millennium is spiritual delusion.



In your life only. Otherwise, send me one of your angels, or show me one of your nations.

I'll tell you what. Just get Biden out of the White House, and that'll be good enough for me. Don't wait for any election and claim credit. Do it yourself personally with your own power to rule on earth.

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

You're spirit-only millennium stuff is just doctrinal vain imagination. Do your word, then I'll believe it.

Marty believes that you can receive the Mark of the Beast and still be forgiven even though God says otherwise.

 

[Gilligan]

Christ established His own reign after He defeated the grave. Those of us who love Him reign "in Him" today.

In your own life only. And you are not a millenial ruler with power over nations of the earth.

Faith only is dead, being alone, and spirit-only is delusional imagination alone.

 

[Gilligan]

Amills don't believe in establishing the millennial reign in the future.

Of course not. They don't believe in a millennial reign at all. That's why it's called a-millennialism.

Spirit-only pseudo millennialism is just legendary rule of one's own mind.

 

[Gilligan]

Your problem is that you are either totally out of your depth

I don't have anything to do with the depths of Satan. Thank you.

and ignorant as to what Amil believes or else you are a deliberate deceiver.

Amils don't believe in a millennium on earth. Simple.

Spirit-only millennialism is just doctrinal words of vain imagination. The same as salvation by faith alone. No one rules the earth nor goes to heaven by personal doctrine alone.

Since when did I, or any Amil, say that the physical resurrection of the redeemed has already happened?

Already shown you. Once is enough.

You're not resurrected with Christ, nor sitting in heaven, nor reigning over the earth, much less over heaven.

Are you happy telling lies?

You're not resurrected with Christ, nor sitting in heaven, nor reigning over the earth, much less over heaven.

If this is a lie, then say so.

 

[Gilligan]

Scripture demolishes your theology!

Demolish schmolish.

He holds all power (without qualification).

True. You don't. He's on the throne in heaven. You're not.

He reigns today over the seen and the unseen world making every power and every authority “subject unto him.”

Tell that toi Biden and Putin.

And also tell them how you have that power too. There's a padded cell waiting for you.

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

This is the millennium of Jesus Christ.

Your spirit-only one is a delusional joke. Jump up and down in the street 3 times, and yell I reign, I reign really loud so everyone can hear you.

He rules intimately over His spiritual kingdom as Messiah and sovereignly over the physical kingdoms of the world and over all mankind as God.

Tell that to any democrat.

 

[Gilligan]

I though you are supposed to have Scripture that teaches what you believe for it to be bonafide? Where in Rev 20 (your only supposed proof-text) teaches Jesus is on earth during your so-called future millennium? Where is He? What is He doing?

Where in your so-called millennium are you ruling with power over any nation. Just one will do. Maybe a city or village? How about a cave somewhere?


And where is your angel sent from heaven by you to clue me in on your throne up there?

 

[Gilligan]

You or none of your gang of hate (Davy, Robert derrick and Always Unbelieving) have been able to quote one Amil

Amils don't believe in any millennial reigning on earth with Christ.
We're not talking about

who teaches the redeemed destroy the wicked "with their very own rods of iron."

It's good that your spirit-only millennium does not claim to rule with Him with rods of iron.

I hope to do so, but it won't be to bludgeon everyone to death. That's your spirit-only fantasy, and so long as it stays spirit-only, you won't be murdering anyone.

Your campaign of hate and lies should never be allowed on a Christian forum.

Quote me to them: I personally hate and object to any teaching, that Jesus will come again to rule earth by beating everyone to death with a rod of iron, and that such teachers look forward to rule with Him the same way.

Also, just questioning if someone is saved or not, gets you a warning on this site. I have this recorded along with your clown comment.

You see, you're problem is you don't have the maturity to be challenged, without becoming personally insulting about it.

 

[Gilligan]

Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5). Amils believe in corroboration. Multiple Scripture proves that the first resurrection of Jesus occurred 2000 years ago.

Ephesians 2:5-6, “Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

Through the first resurrection we enjoy heavenly authority by being “in Christ Jesus.” We belong to Christ and are therefore spiritually seated with Him today.

Ephesians 1:3 also supports, saying, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.”

The Church currently exists in its heavenly authority procured for them by Christ who has already defeated every enemy. The introduction of the kingdom of God through Christ’s earthly ministry saw the beginning of Christ’s assault upon the global control of Satan. It is through the finished work of Calvary that the Church now walks in victory. The responsibility of the Church is to simply enter into the reality of that great eternal work by faith. We reside on a far higher spiritual plane than this sin-cursed earth, namely in the throne-room of God. Abiding there ensures we walk by His will, His commands and His blueprint rather than our own carnal desires.

With His triumphant victory at the cross and His consequential rise to the true Zion in heaven, Christ fulfils this now in this current kingdom age.

Copy and paste

But when ye teach, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

 

[Gilligan]

because you have no answer to Amil.

My answer to amil is that Jesus will rule a millennium on earth.

My response to pseudo spirit-only mil, is you're a legend in your own mind.

 

[Gilligan]

Many of us suspected that with your vicious attacks.

Buaaaahahahha. Snarl snarl.

You're spirit-only ever expanding in time millennium, is big balloon in air. With no string attached.

 

[Gilligan]

They are Amills because they believe what Christ has said about what happens at his coming.

True. Amills don't believe He will rule the earth when He comes again. I do. I'm not an amil.

Would you like to go first in quoting what he has directly said about his coming and how it relates to the placement of the millennium?

Sure. It's called ruling them with a rod of iron. And giving power to His overcomers resurrected from the dead to rule the nations with Him.

Anything else?

I think many of us have addressed that as being something foreign to us Gilligan.

Good for you. Then don't teach it.

Jesus does not come again to earth to rule the nations by beating them all to death with a rod of iron. Neither does He give power to His resurrected saints to help Him in that kind of so-called rule.

But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.

Such teaching is of the last false christ coming on earth, not of Jesus, who will stop him from finishing:

And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

It is premill holding the rod of Iron in a future millenium not Amill.

True. As I said, no amil believes in any millennium rule of Christ over all nations on earth. Not for a thousand years, nor even one day. People are free to not believe anything they want. I have nothing against amils at all. I just believe He and His resurrected saints will do so.

It's that imaginary spirit-only millennium that I discount as dead as faith alone.

But that prophecy of the Lord coming again to kill everyone on earth, and His resurrected saints helping Him, is the one I despise, object to, and condemn as devilish prophecy for a false christ.

What are you guys think you're going to do with it??? Love to hear all about that.

Sure. We will be ruling with Christ on earth, to establish the Lord's reign and rule and law over all nations of the earth, end all warfare, promote good will and neighborly lawful business among all men, and ensure no transgressor of the King's law gets away with it, but will be prosecuted justly and speedily.

I also look forward to diving to the depths of any sea I wish, as well as petting any lion I see.

The prophecy of a millennium on earth to destroy every man, woman, child, and babe, is of an antichrist rule over all flesh on earth.

 

[Gilligan]

Marty believes that you can receive the Mark of the Beast and still be forgiven even though God says otherwise.

OSAS is nothing new. And I believe I have shown enough to say that all spirit-only millennialists are probably OSAS.

By Scripture, receiving the mark certainly appears to be an endgame from being resurrected to reign with Christ on earth.

However, I'm not so sure repraboation is without repentance, since God may choose not to draw us at one time, and perhaps can do so another time before death.

But that's just a theory of mine, that I certainly don't want to test. ;)

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

I do know that Jesus does give us a space to repent, and if not, then we are cast into our own bed of death.

And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

 

[David in NJ]

OSAS is nothing new. And I believe I have shown enough to say that all spirit-only millennialists are probably OSAS.

By Scripture, receiving the mark certainly appears to be an endgame from being resurrected to reign with Christ on earth.

However, I'm not so sure repraboation is without repentance, since God may choose not to draw us at one time, and perhaps can do so another time before death.

But that's just a theory of mine, that I certainly don't want to test. ;)

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

I do know that Jesus does give us a space to repent, and if not, then we are cast into our own bed of death.

And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

The space for forgiveness is Now = Before the Mark is made Law

That is why Jesus said: Revelation chapter 2 "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds."

Once we arrive at Revelation ch12 and forward when the Official Final Mark of the Beast will be finalized and made Law.
At this point the space/option for forgiveness closes once the person receives the Official Final Mark.
This is the End Game of Satan and the Final refusal of the Gospel.
It is the meeting Point of Two Kingdoms - the kingdoms of this world under satan/Mark and the Kingdom of Christ = the Gospel.
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

Thus we have the LORD switching from availability of repentance BEFORE the Mark to Jesus saying this AFTER the Mark:

They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony.
And they did not love their lives
so as to shy away from death. = Salvation

Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the Book of Life belonging to the Lamb who was slain.
He who has an ear, let him hear:
“If anyone is destined for captivity,
into captivity he will go;
if anyone is to die by the sword,
by the sword he must be killed.”
Here is a call for the perseverance and faith of the saints = Salvation

And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” = ETERNAL DEATH

Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. = Salvation

I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.” = Salvation

For authentic Believers in Christ, refusal of the Mark will mean the physical death penalty under the Law/Mark of the Beast.

 

[Gilligan]

The space for forgiveness is Now = Before the Mark is made Law

That is why Jesus said: Revelation chapter 2 "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds."

Once we arrive at Revelation ch12 and forward when the Official Final Mark of the Beast will be finalized and made Law.
At this point the space/option for forgiveness closes once the person receives the Official Final Mark.
This is the End Game of Satan and the Final refusal of the Gospel.

I would agree, and I also believe the resurrection of the church is with the two witnesses in Rev 11. What comes after that is the Lord's bombardment of plagues on earth, in preparation for His D-day landing on the Mt, when He will slaughter the fielded armies around Armageddon.

For authentic Believers in Christ, refusal of the Mark will mean the physical death penalty under the Law/Mark of the Beast.

Wouldn't be the first time on earth, but just the last. Once Jesus is King over all nations, none of His people will ever suffer persecution again. When Gog and Magog gather around the camp of the saints, He'll just have His fire of God come down to wipe them out out of hand.