Yes but grafted into the believing remnant of Israel NOT the body of Christ church
THE GOSPEL
- Thread starter Doug
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RenewedStrength316
Member
Doug, you’re trying to cage the gospel inside narrow ethnic walls, but John 3:16 shatters those bars.
> “For God so loved the world...” — not just Israel, not just a chosen few.
The Greek word kosmos here means the entire inhabited earth — Jew and Gentile, sinner and saint alike.
If Jesus was only a ransom for Israel, then why would John say “whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life”?
John 3:18 flows naturally from 3:16 — belief in Jesus saves from condemnation. It doesn’t say “belief in Jesus saves some Jews.” It says “he that believes” — period.
You want to bury the cross and its ransom price? Scripture screams otherwise:
> “Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures.” — 1 Corinthians 15:3
“He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.” — 1 John 2:2
The ransom was paid once, for all, on that blood-soaked tree — not for some exclusive ethnic club, but for every fallen soul who calls on His name.
Don’t try to fence God’s grace with man-made boundaries, Doug. The gospel is the gospel. It kills the old and raises the new — Jew and Gentile alike.
RenewedStrength316
Member
Doug, your theology is a fortress built on sand, and I’m the thunderstorm God sent to tear it down.
You sit in your cage, splitting the gospel like it’s some tribal secret, but the Scriptures obliterate your lies.
Paul didn’t preach a second-rate gospel for Israel alone. He thundered the eternal, universal Gospel of Jesus Christ crucified and risen for all mankind.
> “But if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.” — 1 Corinthians 15:17
You cling to “Israel first,” but the cross crushed the dividing wall.
> “For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us.” — Ephesians 2:14
You talk about a “remnant” like it’s a backdoor to exclusivism. But the remnant is those who believe—whether Jew or Gentile—washed by the blood, baptized by the Spirit, raised to new life.
> “There is neither Jew nor Greek... for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:28
Your “Israel only” gospel is a fool’s refuge, a deception of the enemy, a lie wrapped in half-truths.
> “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light...” — Isaiah 5:20
Your refusal to see the cross in all Scripture condemns you to spiritual blindness and puts others on the same path.
> “Because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved... God shall send them strong delusion...” — 2 Thessalonians 2:10-11
Doug, repent before the Spirit rips the veil from your eyes and exposes your counterfeit gospel for what it is.
God’s Word is fire and hammer.
> “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword...” — Hebrews 4:12
The cross does not divide; it unites. It does not exclude; it redeems.
Stand on the truth or be broken by it.
I pray the Holy Spirit rips through your pride and opens your heart before it’s too late.
RenewedStrength316
Member
Doug, you say “also for us in this dispensation” like it’s some afterthought or loophole. That’s spiritual spin, not Scripture.
Isaiah 53 doesn’t say “only Israel” or “mostly Israel.” It says:
> “The Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.”
That all is not limited by dispensations or ethnicity. It’s cosmic, eternal, universal.
Paul didn’t reveal a second gospel for “us” — he unveiled the eternal, full scope of the cross.
> “For He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” — 1 John 2:2
You’re trying to fence God’s mercy. The cross is a wrecking ball smashing all walls — Jew and Gentile alike.
> “God forbid. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth...” — Romans 1:16
Don’t reduce the Savior’s sacrifice to a tribal transaction. The Lamb’s blood covers all who will come — no exceptions, no limitations.
You’re either crucified with Christ or you’re still lost in your excuses.
[Deu 32:21 KJV] 21 They have moved me to jealousy with [that which is] not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with [those which are] not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
This verse was about Israel.................Hosea calls Israel not his people......................[Hos 1:10 KJV] 10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people, [there] it shall be said unto them, [Ye are] the sons of the living God.......................Peter in talking about Israel says they are...........................[1Pe 2:10 KJV] 10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
The foolish nation is the believing remnant of Israel, the little flock..........................Jesus said the promised kingdom would be taken from the nation of Israel and giving to the believing nation of Israel..............[Mat 21:43 KJV] 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.................the remnant of Israel in Acts 10:45 did include Gentiles
RenewedStrength316
Member
You keep turning the “many” of Scripture into a narrow tribal footnote to protect your theology — but the Bible itself shows how wide the net is cast.
The Greek word “many” (πολλοί, polloi) doesn’t mean a limited, exclusive crowd but a great multitude, beyond counting.
> “I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, tribe, people and language...” — Revelation 7:9
Jesus gave His life as a ransom for many — many enough to include every tribe and tongue.
Isaiah’s “many” isn’t a small subset; it’s the language of multitudes, of all humanity broken and desperate for redemption.
To say “the many” means only Israel is spiritual blindness and a denial of the cross’s full power.
If your gospel shrinks the scope of Christ’s sacrifice, it’s not the gospel at all — it’s a cheap counterfeit.
Wake up, Doug.
The cross was never meant to be a tribal fence — it’s the bridge that breaks all walls down.
> “There is neither Jew nor Greek… for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:28
RenewedStrength316
Member
You say it was “not known before Paul,” but that’s a veil you’re lifting with man’s timeline, not God’s eternal truth.
The cross wasn’t a new invention; it was God’s eternal plan from the foundation of the world.
> “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things… but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.” — 1 Peter 1:18–19
Peter, writing before his death, declared the power of the blood—long before Paul’s letters.
The prophets foretold it, the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8).
God’s salvation plan never had a second-class audience.
Paul didn’t create a new gospel—he revealed the fullness of the one gospel that has always been.
To say otherwise is to make Paul a founder of division, not unity, and a teller of half-truths, not the whole truth.
Wake up, Doug—God’s Word doesn’t wait on human revelation. It is eternal, whole, and complete in Christ from the beginning.
RenewedStrength316
Member
Doug, you keep circling the same ground, but Romans 9 isn’t a locked room just for Israel. Paul explicitly says in verse 24: "Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles."
The very same Hosea passage you clutch tight is quoted by Paul to show God’s mercy extends beyond ethnic Israel — to those once not His people, now grafted in by grace.
> “I will call them My people, which were not My people...” — that’s the gospel breaking down walls, not building new ones.
Your claim that Hosea is “NOT the church the body but Israel” ignores Paul’s context: He is unveiling the mystery that Gentiles, alongside believing Jews, are part of God’s new covenant people.
If you want to stand against Paul’s inspired interpretation, you aren’t standing with Scripture — you’re standing against it.
Either you repent of this fence-building or accept that you’re spreading division where the cross tore down dividing walls.
This is not complex theology. It’s the heart of the gospel: God calls all who believe—Jew and Gentile alike—His people.
> “There is neither Jew nor Greek… for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:28
This is the full counsel of God, not your truncated, dispensation-bound version.
RenewedStrength316
Member
Doug, that’s exactly the lie the enemy loves to spread — splitting the believing remnant of Israel from the body of Christ like they’re two separate things. Paul doesn’t draw a line there. The New Testament makes it clear: the body of Christ is composed of both believing Jews and Gentiles, grafted together by grace.
> “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles...” — 1 Corinthians 12:13
You’re clinging to a patchwork theology that fractures the gospel. The cross tore down every dividing wall, and the Spirit baptizes us all into one new humanity. This is not about some earthly kingdom faction—it’s about the eternal, spiritual body of Christ.
Refuse this truth if you will, but it is the foundation of apostolic teaching, not your dispensational guesswork.
RenewedStrength316
Member
Doug, you’re trying to box the promises into ethnic Israel like a kid clutching a sandcastle against the tide. But Paul’s use of Deuteronomy and Hosea in Romans 10 shatters that barrier:
> “I was found of them that sought Me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after Me.”
You say “foolish nation” means only Israel’s remnant. Fine. But Paul clearly shows that this “nation” includes Gentiles grafted into God’s people by faith, not by flesh or law.
Peter echoes this truth in 1 Peter 2:10—those once “not a people” but now “the people of God”—this is not just Israel’s nationalists. It’s the new covenant people, Jew and Gentile, united in Christ.
You mention the kingdom being taken from Israel and given to a “nation” producing fruit (Matt 21:43). That “nation” isn’t ethnically Israel alone—it’s the spiritual Israel, the church, the body of Christ, made of Jews and Gentiles who bear His fruit.
Trying to fence God’s promises in with dispensational lines is spiritual blindness, not faith. Open your eyes, Doug—this kingdom, this people, this gospel, is for all who believe. Not just a select ethnic remnant.
The cross tore down every wall; the Spirit built one new humanity. There is no second gospel here, only one—Jesus Christ crucified and risen for all.
If you refuse this, you deny the heart of the gospel itself.
RenewedStrength316
Member
@Doug
Doug—let’s be real.
I’m not here to argue endless circles. I’m not here to defend systems or traditions.
I’m here for the gospel of Jesus Christ—the gospel that crushes sin, destroys division, raises the dead, and births a new creation.
You’ve split the cross in two.
You’ve divided the body.
You’ve wrapped yourself in dispensations like fig leaves to avoid the full weight of Scripture.
But I’m not buying it.
The blood of Jesus was never limited to Israel.
The prophets didn’t just speak to the past—they lit the road to Calvary.
And Paul didn’t invent a new gospel—he revealed the One that shook hell and tore the veil.
So yes—I’m here to destroy your theology.
Not for ego. Not for pride.
But because it blinds people to the full glory of Christ.
You can keep twisting verses, hiding behind timelines, or redefining terms. Or you can fall on your face and ask God if you’ve missed something deeper—something eternal.
Because the cross doesn’t need your dispensational edits. It needs your surrender.
Doug—let’s be real.
I’m not here to argue endless circles. I’m not here to defend systems or traditions.
I’m here for the gospel of Jesus Christ—the gospel that crushes sin, destroys division, raises the dead, and births a new creation.
You’ve split the cross in two.
You’ve divided the body.
You’ve wrapped yourself in dispensations like fig leaves to avoid the full weight of Scripture.
But I’m not buying it.
The blood of Jesus was never limited to Israel.
The prophets didn’t just speak to the past—they lit the road to Calvary.
And Paul didn’t invent a new gospel—he revealed the One that shook hell and tore the veil.
So yes—I’m here to destroy your theology.
Not for ego. Not for pride.
But because it blinds people to the full glory of Christ.
You can keep twisting verses, hiding behind timelines, or redefining terms. Or you can fall on your face and ask God if you’ve missed something deeper—something eternal.
Because the cross doesn’t need your dispensational edits. It needs your surrender.
Yes this speaks of the salvation for the world found in Christ
This still doesnt reveal all accomplished by the cross
Jesus died to redeem Israel ................[Mat 1:21 KJV] 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins..................Israel was to bless the nations in the and bring them to the Lord in the kingdom..................[Zec 8:23 KJV] 23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days [it shall come to pass], that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard [that] God [is] with you......this is just another aspect to Jesus being a light to the world.........Paul in Acts 13:47 was not the only application for being a light to the Gentiles and along with that he revealed Jesus as a ransom for all (1 Timothy 2:6 4:10)
[Heb 2:9 KJV] 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
The prophets talked about Jesus dying as well.....this verse doesnt say wahat it accomplished
[Heb 2:10 KJV] 10 For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
The next verse just speaks of his sufferings which was in the prophets as well
He gave/sent Jesus to the world to be saviour of the world but how....to believe only on his name John v:18
I am not saying we arent saved but its by Paul's epistles not by what pertains to Israel
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
RenewedStrength316
Member
Exactly, Doug. You just said it.
> “Christ died for our sins.”
Jew and Gentile.
One gospel. One cross. One Savior.
You’ve been building walls the cross already tore down.
Paul didn’t preach a new gospel. He proclaimed the same gospel the prophets foresaw, the apostles echoed, and Christ fulfilled.
> “According to the Scriptures.”
That means Isaiah. That means David. That means Moses.
The whole book bleeds with Him (Luke 24:27).
So if your theology teaches two gospels, two bodies, two salvations—
Then your theology isn’t Pauline.
It’s anti-Christ.
You said 1 Corinthians 15:3 is for us today.
Good. Then drop the rest of your dispensational scaffolding and believe it all the way:
> One Lord. One faith. One baptism.
One God and Father of all (Ephesians 4:5–6).
No more fig leaves. No more dodging.
You’ve heard the truth.
Now bow to it—or get out of the way.
You cant apply Galatians to the remnant.....Peter and the disciples never taught this
RenewedStrength316
Member
Doug, you keep shrinking the gospel to fit inside your dispensational box.
But the gospel of Jesus Christ was never Israel’s pet doctrine. It was God’s plan before time began.
> “This is a faithful saying… that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am chief.”
— 1 Timothy 1:15
That’s Paul talking. Not about covenants. Not about national Israel. But about sinners.
John 3:16 says God loved the world. Not a dispensation. Not a bloodline.
And you think John 3:18 limits it? Read it again.
> “He that believeth on Him is not condemned.”
It doesn’t say, “He that believes Paul’s gospel in a Gentile age.”
It says, believe on Him. Jesus. The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29).
