THE GOSPEL

[Doug]

Doug, if your gospel doesn’t lead to a new creation, it’s not the gospel of Christ. It’s a decoy.

Believing the gospel gives us eternal life freely
We are told thru Paul's doctrine that we should crucify the old man and put on Christ
If we dont we still have eternal life but we cant be used of God now and we will lose reward
The new man is not part of the gospel

 

[RenewedStrength316]

Yes but we have to be saved first....transformation comes after

Salvation without transformation is not salvation. It’s a lie.

If you claim to be saved but your life isn’t crucified with Christ, you’re still dead in trespasses and sins — no matter what theological lines you recite.

The Word says you’re born again the moment you believe — a new creation, washed clean, broken, and remade. That’s not some optional bonus doctrine for the spiritual elite; it’s the core reality of the gospel.

To split salvation and transformation is to build a gospel that paves the way to hell — a gospel of dead faith, dry religion, and empty hope.

If you’re not trembling before the cross, if your heart isn’t shattered and your pride isn’t crucified, then you’re not saved. You’re deceived.

So stop teaching half-truths that justify lukewarm faith and call it grace. Repent. Tremble. Be broken.

Because without that, you have no gospel. You have no Christ.

 

[Doug]

I say this not to shame you—but to wake you.

I never have taken offence I know you are sincere

 

[Doug]

If Christ hasn’t made you new, then you’ve met religion—not resurrection.

Religion says we can be made acceptable to God whereas grace says it's all his mercy and love and we can contribute nothing

 

[Doug]

I believe the gospel isn’t just facts to accept—it’s a fire to walk through.

Sorry but what sense does this make

 

[Doug]

You say “just believe.” But demons believe—and tremble (James 2:19).

What do the demons believe?
[Jas 2:19 KJV] 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

They believe there is one God.....thats not believing what God tells us is the gospel that if we believe we are justified

 

[RenewedStrength316]

Believing the gospel gives us eternal life freely
We are told thru Paul's doctrine that we should crucify the old man and put on Christ
If we dont we still have eternal life but we cant be used of God now and we will lose reward
The new man is not part of the gospel

Doug, listen carefully—because eternity is in the balance.

You’ve drawn a line God never drew. You’ve split salvation from transformation as if Christ can be received as Savior but not as Lord—as if the old man can live on after Calvary without consequence.

That’s not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

> “If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” — 2 Corinthians 5:17

“They that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” — Galatians 5:24



You say the “new man is not part of the gospel.” But Paul said the opposite:

> “We are buried with Him by baptism into death… that like as Christ was raised from the dead… even so we also should walk in newness of life.” — Romans 6:4



The gospel does not offer life to the old man. It kills him.

You teach that we can remain unchanged and still inherit eternal life, just with “lost rewards.” But Jesus said:

> “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father.” — Matthew 7:21
“Without holiness no man shall see the Lord.” — Hebrews 12:14



Doug, your gospel is soft on sin, allergic to repentance, and terrified of transformation. But the gospel of Christ is a consuming fire—it doesn’t just forgive, it recreates.

If your “eternal life” lets the old man live, it’s not eternal life. It’s a counterfeit. And it will not survive the judgment seat of Christ.

> “Let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.” — 1 John 3:7
“Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.” — 1 John 3:6



This is not about rewards, Doug. This is about regeneration.

If Christ lives in you, the evidence won’t be a theological position. It will be a transformed life. If you don't bear that fruit, you don't know Him (Matthew 7:16–23).

This isn’t cruelty. This is mercy sounding the trumpet.

Repent. Not just of sin—but of the powerless gospel you’ve been preaching. The gospel of Paul is the gospel of Christ, and Christ makes all things new—or He hasn’t made you His.

> “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.” — 2 Corinthians 13:5



Your soul depends on it. And so do the souls of those you teach.

 

[Doug]

“Strive to enter in at the narrow gate…” — Luke 13:24

You are giving scripture for Israel to enter the earthly kingdom as if it applies to us once again

 

[RenewedStrength316]

I never have taken offence I know you are sincere

Then let me speak to you, Doug, as one man trembling before God to another:

If you know I’m sincere, then don’t brush off the warning. Don’t nod politely and move on. Wrestle with it.

This isn’t about offense—it’s about eternity.

You say belief gives eternal life—and it does. But if that belief doesn’t produce a new birth, a new nature, and a new allegiance, then it was never saving faith.

Paul didn’t preach a gospel that left men unchanged.

> “If we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him… Reckon yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God.” — Romans 6:8–11



This isn't about feelings or “drumming up emotion.” It’s about standing at the foot of the cross until the old man dies and the Spirit of God breathes new life into dry bones.

Doug, I’m not questioning your sincerity. I’m pleading for clarity. Because your gospel presentation lacks the fire of Pentecost, the brokenness of repentance, and the power of resurrection life.

And that absence isn’t harmless. It’s deadly.

So I say it again—not to shame you, but to wake you:

If the gospel you believe doesn’t slay your sin, If it doesn’t produce godly sorrow, If it doesn’t give birth to a new creation—

Then it’s not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

> “Awake, thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.” — Ephesians 5:14



Don’t settle for theory when Christ offers transformation. Don't cling to a shell when He offers Himself.

He is more than a message. He is life.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

Religion says we can be made acceptable to God whereas grace says it's all his mercy and love and we can contribute nothing

Then let me sharpen the sword a little more, Doug—because now we’re close to the root.

Yes, grace is all mercy. Yes, we contribute nothing. But grace does not leave a man as it found him.

You’re right that religion says “be good to be accepted.”
But grace says “you are accepted—and now crucified, buried, and risen a new man.”

> “Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”
— Romans 6:1–2



This isn’t semantics. This is the soul of the gospel.
If your definition of grace allows for a man to remain unchanged, it is not grace—it’s license.

Grace does what the Law never could:

It gives you a new heart (Ezekiel 36:26).

It teaches you to deny ungodliness (Titus 2:11–12).

It puts Christ in you, not just before you.


Doug, if Christ lives in a man, how can that man not be made new?

> “If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
— 2 Corinthians 5:17



That’s not religion. That’s resurrection.
And anything less than that is still dead.

So I’ll say it again:

If Christ hasn’t made you new, then you haven’t met Him.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

Sorry but what sense does this make

Then let me make it plain, Doug:

The gospel isn’t a checklist—it’s a crucifixion.

> “I am crucified with Christ...” — Galatians 2:20
“We were buried with him by baptism into death...” — Romans 6:4
“Our old man is crucified with him...” — Romans 6:6



The gospel isn’t a cold agreement with facts. Even the demons believe and tremble.
The gospel is a furnace that consumes the old man and raises a new creation from the ashes.

> “He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.” — Matthew 3:11



That’s the fire I’m talking about. The kind that burns pride, strips self-will, and melts rebellion.
You don’t just nod at it—you die in it.

And if your gospel doesn’t set you on fire—doesn’t bring you to your knees in holy fear and brokenness—then you’ve embraced information, not salvation.

You don’t walk away from Calvary clean and untouched.
You either come out reborn—or you never entered at all.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

What do the demons believe?
[Jas 2:19 KJV] 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

They believe there is one God.....thats not believing what God tells us is the gospel that if we believe we are justified

Then let’s expose the flaw in your gospel, Doug:

You say, “The devils believe there is one God, not the gospel.”
But James isn’t talking about polytheism—he’s exposing empty faith, a faith without obedience, without fruit, without a living, trembling surrender.

> “Wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?” — James 2:20
“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” — James 2:17



You're right that the devils don’t believe the gospel that saves.
But your version of “just believe” isn’t far off from theirs—it’s intellectual agreement with no repentance, no crucifixion, no regeneration.

Demons believe facts. So do Pharisees. So did Judas.

None of them were justified.

Why?

Because true saving faith isn’t just belief—it’s surrender.

> “With the heart man believeth unto righteousness...” — Romans 10:10



Not with the head.
Not with cold doctrine.
But with a heart broken and bowed.

Doug, the danger isn’t that you deny the gospel.
It’s that you strip it of its power—and reduce it to a doctrinal transaction.

You can quote Romans 4 all day long.
But if your faith doesn’t crucify the old man and raise a new one—you’ve received grace in vain (2 Cor. 6:1).

That’s not the gospel Paul bled for.
And it’s not the one Christ died to give.

 

[Doug]

Christ doesn’t clothe the unbroken.
He clothes the crucified.

> “Blessed are the poor in spirit… they that mourn… the meek…” — Matthew 5

once again you give scriptures given to Israel about the earthly kingdom

 

[RenewedStrength316]

You are giving scripture for Israel to enter the earthly kingdom as if it applies to us once again

Then let me answer plainly, Doug — as a watchman soaked in fire and not a seminarian quoting dispensational talking points:

You’re wrong.

You’ve chopped the Word of God into pieces to avoid the parts that demand your surrender. You use “right division” like a scalpel to carve out every verse that doesn’t fit your sterile, transactional gospel.

Let’s expose the error:

> “Strive to enter in at the narrow gate…” — Luke 13:24



Who said that?
Jesus.
The King of kings.
The Judge of all mankind.

Did He stutter?
Did He say, “Only Israel needs to strive. Gentiles can just coast in with head knowledge”?

No. He said:

> “Many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.”
(Luke 13:24, same verse)



This isn’t about the earthly kingdom.
This is about eternal judgment.
He’s warning people who think they’re in… but never truly knew Him (Luke 13:25–27).

Doug, this isn’t just for Israel. This is for every soul who thinks quoting Paul means you’re exempt from repentance, crucifixion, and holiness.

You say, “Follow Paul.”
Fine.

> “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.” — 2 Corinthians 13:5
“Mortify therefore your members… put off the old man…” — Colossians 3
“If ye live after the flesh, ye shall die.” — Romans 8:13



Paul strives. Paul dies daily. Paul fears God.

So why don’t you?

You’ve built a gospel that lets a man keep his sin, his pride, and his deadness—as long as he agrees with the doctrine.

But Jesus didn’t say “agree.” He said strive.

Not strive to earn salvation—but strive to enter through the narrow way that requires repentance, brokenness, and a new birth.

Your gospel is wide. His gate is narrow.

And until your gospel starts producing people who tremble, repent, and walk in holiness—it’s not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

> “Without holiness no man shall see the Lord.” — Hebrews 12:14



This isn’t about Israel.
It’s about eternity.
And it’s closer than you think.

 

[Doug]

Doug, you just proved my point.

I can’t do it of myself.

right

 

[RenewedStrength316]

once again you give scriptures given to Israel about the earthly kingdom

Then hear me, Doug—and hear me well:

If you keep carving up the Word of God until nothing applies to you but your cherry-picked verses from Paul, you’re not rightly dividing—you’re spiritually dismembering.

> “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness…” — 2 Timothy 3:16



All Scripture, Doug.
Not just Paul’s letters.
Not just what fits your framework.

The Beatitudes aren’t some quaint moral code for ancient Jews.
They are kingdom keys for every soul who wants to know what heaven values.

> “Blessed are the poor in spirit…”
That’s not nationalism. That’s humility.



> “Blessed are they that mourn…”
That’s not tribal prophecy. That’s godly sorrow.



> “Blessed are the meek…”
That’s not about land in Palestine. That’s the very posture of Christ (Philippians 2:5–8).



You act like the Sermon on the Mount is irrelevant because it came from Jesus before Paul’s epistles. That’s like saying the King’s own words are outdated.

But Jesus said:

> “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.” — Matthew 24:35



So no, Doug—this isn’t “just for Israel.”

It’s for the broken.
It’s for the crucified.
It’s for those who don’t just quote the gospel but have bled under it.

Until you’re poor in spirit, you won’t see the kingdom.
Until you mourn over your sin, you won’t know true comfort.
Until you’re meek, you’ll fight for a doctrine but never walk with God.

That’s not my theology.
That’s His throne-room constitution.

So go ahead—keep dividing the Word until it no longer pierces you.
But don’t call that faith.
Call it what it is:

Spiritual evasion.

And I say this not to wound you—but to wake you.
Because Christ doesn’t clothe the self-righteous.
He clothes the crushed.
And unless you’re one of them, you’re naked on the day of judgment.

> “I counsel thee to buy of Me… white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear…” — Revelation 3:18

 

[RenewedStrength316]

right

Then why do you keep gutting the gospel of its power?

You say “right” like you agree, but every word you’ve written betrays that you still think salvation is just mental consent—not supernatural rebirth. That it’s just believing facts, not being broken and raised by the Spirit of God.

Let me say it plain:

If I can’t crucify my old self by sheer will,
If I can’t manufacture repentance or transformation,
If I can’t make myself righteous, holy, or alive…

Then salvation must be more than facts.
It must be fire.

> “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.” — Titus 3:5



You say you believe that, but do you?
Because regeneration isn’t symbolic.
It’s the moment God invades your soul and makes you a new creature.
Not someday. Not hypothetically. Now.

If you agree I can’t do this myself—
Then something better than me must.
Something divine.
Something violent.
Something holy.

That’s not cold doctrine. That’s resurrection.

So stop nodding “right” with your mouth, Doug,
When your theology keeps Christ in the tomb.
You’re not defending grace—you’re disarming it.

If salvation is truly God's work—
Then stop resisting the evidence of that work.

> “You must be born again.” — John 3:7
Not just taught. Not just persuaded.
Born. Again. Or you're still dead.



This isn’t about emotion.
This is about transformation.

Either the Spirit of God has done that in you,
Or you’re still just agreeing with information while rotting in the grave.

And that’s not opinion.
That’s the Word.

So yes, Doug—you proved my point.
Now answer this:

Has Christ done more in you than just make you agree?
Or are you still living off borrowed verses and a gospel without flame?

 

[Doug]

But Scripture says it “worketh repentance to salvation”—not just improved conduct. Not a cleaned-up mind. Salvation.

salvation in the Bible is not just salvation unto eternal life it can mean to be saved to have a Godly life and saved from error

 

[Doug]

If someone believes your gospel, but never becomes a new creature… were they ever saved?

They are a new creature but they may not walk in the Spirit and obey commands
God is not mocked they will experience loss of reward and consequences now

 

[RenewedStrength316]

salvation in the Bible is not just salvation unto eternal life it can mean to be saved to have a Godly life and saved from error

Doug, you are slicing up the Word like a butcher instead of trembling before it like a servant.

“Salvation” in 2 Corinthians 7:10 is not about minor course correction or moral upgrade. It’s about eternal deliverance—from death to life, from wrath to grace, from the dominion of darkness into the kingdom of the Son (Colossians 1:13).

You say, "Salvation can mean to be saved from error."

That’s not what Paul said.

> “Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of...”
— 2 Corinthians 7:10



This isn't about fixing your behavior. It's about being reborn.

This isn't about “error.” It’s about the soul. The whole soul.

> “According to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.” — Titus 3:5



You want to make salvation a sliding scale. God made it a resurrection.

You want to make repentance an intellectual shift. God made it a funeral for the old man.

You want to say salvation is sometimes about "better living." The Word says it’s about dying and rising with Christ.

> “How shall we who died to sin still live in it?” — Romans 6:2
“We were buried with Him through baptism into death…” — Romans 6:4
“Our old man was crucified with Him…” — Romans 6:6



This isn’t semantics. This is life or death.

Doug, if your “salvation” doesn’t bury the old man and raise the new—it’s not salvation. It’s self-help with Jesus’ name stapled on top.

That’s not Paul’s gospel.
That’s not Christ’s gospel.
That’s not the gospel of God.


---

Repentance doesn’t lead to better conduct.
It leads to a new creature.

> “If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
— 2 Corinthians 5:17



No more word games.

The cross is not a theory. It’s a tomb.

And if you haven’t gone into it with Christ—you’re not saved.