The Great Apostacy

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In addition to the other seasonal indicators of the end times discussed here is that of the Great Apostacy. It is upon us here in America and in Europe, which was once the home of Christendom. Read this excerpt from NEWSWEEK...----------------------------The End of Christian America It was a small detail, a point of comparison buried in the fifth paragraph on the 17th page of a 24-page summary of the 2009 American Religious Identification Survey. But as R. Albert Mohler Jr.—president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, one of the largest on earth—read over the document after its release in March, he was struck by a single sentence. For a believer like Mohler—a starched, unflinchingly conservative Christian, steeped in the theology of his particular province of the faith, devoted to producing ministers who will preach the inerrancy of the Bible and the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the only means to eternal life—the central news of the survey was troubling enough: the number of Americans who claim no religious affiliation has nearly doubled since 1990, rising from 8 to 15 percent. Then came the point he could not get out of his mind: while the unaffiliated have historically been concentrated in the Pacific Northwest, the report said, "this pattern has now changed, and the Northeast emerged in 2008 as the new stronghold of the religiously unidentified." As Mohler saw it, the historic foundation of America's religious culture was cracking.April 04, 2009 | Religion | By Jon Meachamhttp://www.newsweek.com/id/192583The Editor’s Desk Reports of the death of the religious right or about the high hopes of the religious left are familiar, but something deeper and more fundamental (so to speak) than a tactical repositioning is going on at the moment. Christianity is not depleted or dying; it remains a vibrant force in the lives of billions. Only a fool or an ideologue would say otherwise. There is, however, a sense among believers and nonbelievers that America is less Christian than it has been, and may even be moving into a post-Christian phase.April 04, 2009 | Editor's Letter | By Jon Meachamhttp://www.newsweek.com/id/192460-------------------------

 

[Job one]

Those are very sobering observations upon which all should give deep reflection.

I guess the big question is, does America have the moral courage and desire to repent and turn unto the Lord with all their heart as did those in Ninevah and Tyre?

 

[Martin W.]

It is my observation that the downtown organized church has stumbled but is being replaced by smaller Christian groups at the grass roots level.

Then there is this recent article about the huge growth of the christian church:

Quite encouraging.

http://www.wnd.com/i...w&pageId=245201

 

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It is my observation that the downtown organized church has stumbled but is being replaced by smaller Christian groups at the grass roots level.

Then there is this recent article about the huge growth of the christian church:

Quite encouraging.

http://www.wnd.com/i...w&pageId=245201

Interesting article except that it is based upon rumor and unsubstianted conjecture and optimism.

In actual fact Europe has returned to its ancient pagan roots and/or rejected the Christianity entirely as a way of life and a belief system.
Eastern Europe and Russia experienced a brief surge of Christianity after the fall of the Soviet Union, but the fires of revival have ebbed, largely due to the influence of the native Russian Orthodox Church.
A local Christian college, which was once attended by Billy Graham, admits that Europe can now be seen as a mission field. Foreign exchange students we have welcomed into our home confirm it.

Africa is deeply influenced by Islam in the north and along the Red Sea coast. In the interior it's people are embroiled in a decades long series of civil wars resulting in genocide, famine and plague. I have been there personally and seen it with my own eyes.
Europe, America and the United Nations once came to their aid, but none do so now. The industrial nations of the southeast and southwest are barely hanging on to a semblance of civilization and Christianity is relagated to the traditions of the white minority.

The same is true for the Indian sub-continent. As the British Empire crumbled and nationalism seized the area, Islam and Hinduism regained their previous cultural status. I have been there as well and can confim the reports I've read with my own experience.

In South America, the American political influence has been withdrawn and in it's place the people there have returned to their ancient pagan ways. I have traveled to S.A. and can confirm the rise in paganism. I've talked with missionaries who've left areas in the deep Andes mountain regions that I did not travel to. They agree that Christianity is being openly rejected.

Only in Central America does there seem to be a remnant of mission and church activity as it was in the old days of the mid-twentieth century. My son has spent months there in voluntary service and confirms this to be true.

China is absorbed in materialism and the cluttered semi-slave conditions impressed upon the people by the Communist market economy system. The church there has always been underground, but such groups are by nature difficult to count and render in statistical form.

Japan remains immersed in its traditional Shino/Confucianist ancestor worship. It's as close to a humanistic religion as one can get on this planet.

That leaves us with North America. The downtown church and traditional mission store front has nearly disappeared because the middle class that supported it has fled to the 'burbs. Out there the mega church flourishes based in part on the prosperity gospel and the false non-Christian teachings of situational ethics. Interpersonal relationships and personal improvement are the norm today, not calls for repentance, for personal denial and sacrifice, and certainly not for salvation and sanctification.

The first day I sat in my first accounting class our professor imparted his great wisdom to us in a single sentence, "figures don't lie, but liars can figure." Statistics mean little especially when based on wishes and hopes and rumor. The Christian church is in rapid decline as it has never been since the days of the first apostles. The prophecy of the last days seems to be HERE. The next thing the Bible indicates is the revealing of the anti-Christ.

We shall see...

 

[Job one]

Interesting article except that it is based upon rumor and unsubstianted conjecture and optimism.

In actual fact Europe has returned to its ancient pagan roots and/or rejected the Christianity entirely as a way of life and a belief system.
Eastern Europe and Russia experienced a brief surge of Christianity after the fall of the Soviet Union, but the fires of revival have ebbed, largely due to the influence of the native Russian Orthodox Church.
A local Christian college, which was once attended by Billy Graham, admits that Europe can now be seen as a mission field. Foreign exchange students we have welcomed into our home confirm it.

Africa is deeply influenced by Islam in the north and along the Red Sea coast. In the interior it's people are embroiled in a decades long series of civil wars resulting in genocide, famine and plague. I have been there personally and seen it with my own eyes.
Europe, America and the United Nations once came to their aid, but none do so now. The industrial nations of the southeast and southwest are barely hanging on to a semblance of civilization and Christianity is relagated to the traditions of the white minority.

The same is true for the Indian sub-continent. As the British Empire crumbled and nationalism seized the area, Islam and Hinduism regained their previous cultural status. I have been there as well and can confim the reports I've read with my own experience.

In South America, the American political influence has been withdrawn and in it's place the people there have returned to their ancient pagan ways. I have traveled to S.A. and can confirm the rise in paganism. I've talked with missionaries who've left areas in the deep Andes mountain regions that I did not travel to. They agree that Christianity is being openly rejected.

Only in Central America does there seem to be a remnant of mission and church activity as it was in the old days of the mid-twentieth century. My son has spent months there in voluntary service and confirms this to be true.

China is absorbed in materialism and the cluttered semi-slave conditions impressed upon the people by the Communist market economy system. The church there has always been underground, but such groups are by nature difficult to count and render in statistical form.

Japan remains immersed in its traditional Shino/Confucianist ancestor worship. It's as close to a humanistic religion as one can get on this planet.

That leaves us with North America. The downtown church and traditional mission store front has nearly disappeared because the middle class that supported it has fled to the 'burbs. Out there the mega church flourishes based in part on the prosperity gospel and the false non-Christian teachings of situational ethics. Interpersonal relationships and personal improvement are the norm today, not calls for repentance, for personal denial and sacrifice, and certainly not for salvation and sanctification.

The first day I sat in my first accounting class our professor imparted his great wisdom to us in a single sentence, "figures don't lie, but liars can figure." Statistics mean little especially when based on wishes and hopes and rumor. The Christian church is in rapid decline as it has never been since the days of the first apostles. The prophecy of the last days seems to be HERE. The next thing the Bible indicates is the revealing of the anti-Christ.

We shall see...

 

[Job one]

That is a very interesting observation you have presented.

Perhaps it might be very worthwhile for all to carefully review not only the conditions, but the respective fate of various categories of people who will face those things John the Revelator was shown that would come to pass in our day.

I think that as those events unfold, we will see that John was right on the mark.

His message is clear to all who will refuse to repent. The tribulations and fate is certain. Who is really on the Lord's side? Can we afford to procrastinate our repentance?

Have we been valiant in preparing for the calamities which will beset all of us? Have we even made temporal or physical preparations to the extent that we can survive those prophesied conditions which lie at our very doors?

 

[veteran]

All that is interesting, but it's still not what the great "falling away" Paul mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2 is really about.

Apostle Paul was talking about a specific false one coming to work great signs and wonders (miracles), sitting in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God, exalting himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped.

Paul linked that event of a false one coming to fool the world into believing on him and worshipping him as God to the "strong delusion" in that chapter.

So what's that working got to do with people today turning to pagan religions or not going to Church? Events going on today is only preparing the ground for the future great apostasy by the future false messiah.

The great apostasy can't happen until that false one Paul mentioned arrives on the scene to sit in that temple proclaiming himself as God, and doing miracles to try and prove it.

It's simple. The great apostasy event is dependent upon arrival of the coming false messiah and his being setup in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. That event is not here yet today.

 

[revturmoil]

The great apostasy can't happen until that false one Paul mentioned arrives on the scene to sit in that temple proclaiming himself as God, and doing miracles to try and prove it.

It's simple. The great apostasy event is dependent upon arrival of the coming false messiah and his being setup in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. That event is not here yet today.

You have it backwards. The coming false messiah is dependent upon the arrival of the great apostasy.

3 ¶Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The word first means first in any succession of things. First the apostasy, then the revelation of the man of sin, then the Day of Christ. Paul tells the Thessalonian's that he had already told them these things.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

What things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

That an apostasy is what detains the man of sin!

 

[veteran]

No, the great apostasy ("falling away") is also dependent upon the one who is withholding that Wicked one releasing him for the great tribulation. The tribulation time is when that false messiah will come to sit in the temple of God in Jerusalem, and proclaim himself as God, with working miracles to try and prove it. That tribulation has not yet started today. But it is near.

 

[revturmoil]

No, the great apostasy ("falling away") is also dependent upon the one who is withholding that Wicked one releasing him for the great tribulation. The tribulation time is when that false messiah will come to sit in the temple of God in Jerusalem, and proclaim himself as God, with working miracles to try and prove it. That tribulation has not yet started today. But it is near.

Does it matter to you that out of the 30 words for 'first' Paul uses the word 'proton' which means "first in any succession of things?"

Does it matter to you that before mentioning the one who lets in verse 7 Paul tell them...
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

What did he tell them? He told them...for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

6. And now ye know what (not who) withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

The rebellion or revolt that's taking place in the Arab world could very well be the apostasy because the word does mean a political or religious revolt. This apostasy will result in a power vacumn in the Arab world creating the perfect conditions for the revelation of the man of sin. The common people in the Arab world want political and religious unification. They want one currency and less borders. Sound familiar?

The Islamic anti-christ will not only politically unite the region, he will also unite the Shia and Sunni sects of Islam...the two horned beast.

 

[veteran]

Does it matter to you that out of the 30 words for 'first' Paul uses the word 'proton' which means

"first in any succession of things?"

Does it matter to you that before mentioning the one who lets in verse 7 Paul tell them...
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

What did he tell them? He told them...for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

6. And now ye know what (not who) withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

The rebellion or revolt that's taking place in the Arab world could very well be the apostasy because the word does mean a political or religious revolt. This apostasy will result in a power vacumn in the Arab world creating the perfect conditions for the revelation of the man of sin. The common people in the Arab world want political and religious unification. They want one currency and less borders. Sound familiar?

The Islamic anti-christ will not only politically unite the region, he will also unite the Shia and Sunni sects of Islam...the two horned beast.

The "strong delusion" and "a lie" which Paul mentioned later in 2 Thess.2:11 also helps define the TIMING when that Wicked will do the false works Paul foretold in 2 Thess.2:3-4. Not only is the matter covered by Paul in 2 Thess.2, but also in 2 Cor.11 with the "another Jesus", Matt.24 with the false messiah Christ warned of, and Rev.9 through 13 about the "dragon" and the "another beast".

The orthodox unbelieving Jews are not going to bow to an Islamic false prophet, period. Nor would the majority of deceived Christians. But to a false one claiming to be God like Apostle Paul said, a fake presenting himself as The Messiah of The Bible with miracles to prove it, they would. And that's the major difference, which is what the "strong delusion" is about. That's why it's going to be Satan (the "dragon" per God's Word), the devil himself, in person on this earth in our earthly dimension; he is the only one that can cause that kind of powerful delusion upon this world.

 

[revturmoil]

The "strong delusion" and "a lie" which Paul mentioned later in 2 Thess.2:11 also helps define the TIMING when that Wicked will do the false works Paul foretold in 2 Thess.2:3-4. Not only is the matter covered by Paul in 2 Thess.2, but also in 2 Cor.11 with the "another Jesus", Matt.24 with the false messiah Christ warned of, and Rev.9 through 13 about the "dragon" and the "another beast".

The orthodox unbelieving Jews are not going to bow to an Islamic false prophet, period. Nor would the majority of deceived Christians. But to a false one claiming to be God like Apostle Paul said, a fake presenting himself as The Messiah of The Bible with miracles to prove it, they would. And that's the major difference, which is what the "strong delusion" is about. That's why it's going to be Satan (the "dragon" per God's Word), the devil himself, in person on this earth in our earthly dimension; he is the only one that can cause that kind of powerful delusion upon this world.

You're thinking from a globalist perspective. Israel will be taken once again by the Muslim's and I'm not sure how far into Israel that goes. Israel will be under the yoke of the Assyrian anti-christ and that's the only reason he may require Jews to worship him. Since his empire isn't global, there's reason to assume Israel will worship the beast unless he takes it and subdues it.

The man of sin will not come in the literal name of Jesus. That's another globalist fallacy.

As far as strong delusion goes I have my ideas but am unsure. The lie could be the lies the man of sin uses to get Muslim's to accept his politically and religiously unification of the region.

 

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All that is interesting, but it's still not what the great "falling away" Paul mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2 is really about.

Apostle Paul was talking about a specific false one coming to work great signs and wonders (miracles), sitting in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God, exalting himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped.

Paul linked that event of a false one coming to fool the world into believing on him and worshipping him as God to the "strong delusion" in that chapter.

So what's that working got to do with people today turning to pagan religions or not going to Church? Events going on today is only preparing the ground for the future great apostasy by the future false messiah.

The great apostasy can't happen until that false one Paul mentioned arrives on the scene to sit in that temple proclaiming himself as God, and doing miracles to try and prove it.

It's simple. The great apostasy event is dependent upon arrival of the coming false messiah and his being setup in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. That event is not here yet today.

Go back and read the scripture:
let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
2Th 2:3

Apostacy first, AC second. See?

What's that got to do with not going to church and pagan religions?
Nature abhors a vacuum, especially spiritual nature. No man can sit on the fence. We have to choose and to not choose God IS a choice. Into the Godless vacuum of paganism and passive indifference toward God will march the anti-Christ.

If being forced to accept the Muslim messiah (al-Mahdi/12th Imam), especially by force of arms (execution by beheading) or financial extortion (cannot trade without the mark on one's hand or forehead) isn't a delusion, pray tell me what is.

The following is a working theory, per your initial statement of the false messiah sitting in the temple of God.
1. Assuming for the sake of argument that al-Mahdi or some other Muslim potentate is a figure of political importance and possibly the AC (because he claims to be sent by Allah)......
2. Assuming that the 3rd Temple IS ALREADY BUILT (Jews insist that the nation of Israel IS THE THIRD TEMPLE.... why not, it's their country & religion isn't it?)
...it follows that...
3. Entrance into the third temple by al-Mahdi to speak before the Knesset (Israeli parlament) proposing a peace treaty is all that would be necessary to fulfill the prophecy (since the parliament is the heart of modern Israel and since a massive war/invasion WOULD BE an abomination of desolation).

Would not the world welcome PEACE & SAFETY after all the terrorism and war we've witnessed already? And what do you think al-Mahdi is hiding beneath his official robes when he signs the promisory agreement? Certainly something more than crossed fingers.

In addition, the al-Mahdi prophecy states that Jesus will return and persuade all 'real Christians' that Islam is the true religion. Is this a Muslim prophecy of the apostacy of the church? If it smells like dung, the only question is who dumped it.

Back to Daniels' geat idol prophecy. The feet of iron and clay are interpreted to mean the last global kingdom of man. That kingdom is destroyed by a mountain which is the Kingdom of God.

The mixture of iron and clay suggests some sort of confederacy or loose coalition of sovereign states. As of this writing the United Nations IS such a 'kingdom'. Composed of a loose alliance of sovereign states of EVERY nation on earth and partially fielding a poor excuse of a military, it pretty well qualifies as a fulfillment of scripture.

It would benefit the reader to examine the list of Biblical prophecies of the second coming and compare them to Muslim (shiite) predictions of the state of the world prior to and during the reign of al-Mahdi. They are eerie to say the least.

I suggest Joel Richardson's book The Islamic Anti-Christ.

 

[revturmoil]

3. Entrance into the third temple by al-Mahdi to speak before the Knesset (Israeli parlament) proposing a peace treaty is all that would be necessary to fulfill the prophecy (since the parliament is the heart of modern Israel and since a massive war/invasion WOULD BE an abomination of desolation).

The mixture of iron and clay suggests some sort of confederacy or loose coalition of sovereign states. As of this writing the United Nations IS such a 'kingdom'. Composed of a loose alliance of sovereign states of EVERY nation on earth and partially fielding a poor excuse of a military, it pretty well qualifies as a fulfillment of scripture.

27 　And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

There's no peace treaty with Israel. There's no proof that Israel is included in the covenant of Daniel 9:27. The word for covenant doesn't imply a peace treaty at all. It implies a confederacy and alliance. It's important to understand that peace treaties are made with enemies while alliances are made with friends. The covenant of Daniel 9 is an alliance against Israel. Possibly the Psalm 83 or Ezekiel 38-39 alliance. This isn't a peace treaty and Israel will never become confederate with the Arabs!

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H1285&t=KJV

The word that describes the iron and clay is mixed which denotes Arabia or an Arabian! http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6151&t=KJV

The iron and clay is said to be intermarried (mixed with the seed of men), divided, partly strong and partly broken, shall not cleave to one another, just as.the iron is not mixed with clay. That perfectly describes the Arab's.

The ten toes and ten horns are an Arab/Islamic confederacy of nations. It's not a global empire.

 

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The word that describes the iron and clay is mixed which denotes Arabia or an Arabian! http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6151&t=KJV

The iron and clay is said to be intermarried (mixed with the seed of men), divided, partly strong and partly broken, shall not cleave to one another, just as.the iron is not mixed with clay. That perfectly describes the Arab's.

The ten toes and ten horns are an Arab/Islamic confederacy of nations. It's not a global empire.

Without getting too specific, most scholarly interpretations of Daniels' prophetic statue state that it refers to Kingdoms or Empires which have political influence over the world of men. None of them indicate that the statue or its toes have a meaning in reference to marriage.

For example, the legs of iron are universally interpreted to mean the Roman Empire, which ruled by military force.

Interpretations of the ten horns of Revelation are legion. From Hal Lindsay's EU prediction, to the revived Roman Empire and even the G8/G10 and shadowy illumanati, the suppositions bloom like cherry blossoms in the spring. There is no scholarly connection anywhere that I'm aware of which associates the ten toes of Daniel's statue with the ten horns of Revelation - and marriage. If you've got it, then share it.

There is no legitimate interpretation of the feet of Daniel's statue which even remotely suggest Arabs or marriage as a proper meaning. The United Nations is the ONLY loosely knit organization of nations in history to EVER meet the criteria for the global empire preceeding Christ's second coming. The odd thing about the statue's feet is that even the image it conjurs in one's mind is one of weakness and a singular lack of glory; an attribute of all the preceeding sections.
The UN even meets that criteria. It isn't a shining light by any stretch of the imagination.

This interpretation does not exclude other groups or alliances from affecting history or from playing an active part in the end times. The UN certainly has no power to prevent it. It merely provides a sign-post so that we'll know where we are on the prophetic highway.

 

[shilohsfoal]

The falling away takes place in the land of Israel.Where the son of perdition shows himself that he is God.
This falling away is also recorded in the book of revelation as well.It is about Jerusalem and the people of Israel.

Revelation 18;2-4
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Jesus gave instruction to come out of her in Mathew 24 also,

[sup]15[/sup] “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[sup][a][/sup] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— [sup]16[/sup] then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

 

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Revelation 18;2-4
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Jesus gave instruction to come out of her in Mathew 24 also,

[sup]15[/sup] “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[sup][a][/sup] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— [sup]16[/sup] then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Commentaries state that there are two possible interpretations for Babylon in the Revelation reference above.

1. First is the ecclesiastical Babylon. This is a reference to apostate Christendom.

2. Second is the political Babylon. Being political, this interpretation implies reality; either of an actual city or of outward human activity ending in policy.

A. If an actual city it may be the abode of demonic activity, unncleaness, filth and the depredations of human lust.

B. If in policy, then it will be the center of persecution of Jews (always first in the scheme of things) and gentiles (not necessarily Christians but certainly including them).

Having brought up the subject of the apostate church elsewhere and having supported my asserion with facts and testimony, it is nevertheless rejected by some who fail to "read the signs of the times". These folk will definitely be most surprised when a certain dead Jew, who is rumored to have returned to life, appears again on this planet.

Google "rebuilding Babylon" to review current efforts by several governments (including American), to rebuild the city of Babylon on it's ancient site and original location.
Will this be a new Vegas in the middle east? If so, we can only imagine the sort of mischief that will go on there. If American tax payer dollars are involved it's likely to be at least as glitzy as our own Babylon in Nevada.

Scripture is normally interpreted in double meanings.
There is the literal context of any passage and there is the metaphorical use of a passage in sermons, literature and song.
There are also cultural meanings and implications that are often added to the mix.

In light of this sort of use and abuse, legitimate sources also suggest that ecclesiastical Babylon is a reference to the corrupt church. Since Christendom is riddled with it's own version of religious intolerance, allusions to corruption always point to the church of Rome. No mention is ever made of protestants, who at times are also as crooked as a dog's hind leg. Money is pilfered, sex is exchanged in dark corners and honest donations are redirected away from any benefit to the community and toward opulent development of mega churches.

Shall we 'come out' of this sort of situation? I have.

Let me tell you what I've left. The churches of central Florida from the great eastern ocean to the waters of the gulf are mostly show places of religion replete with modern media presentations and show stopping Vegas style entertainment.

ok, so I didn't pronounce an edit against the papacy. Instead I fled the Sunday religious show - Protestant style.
Today I wander in the desert of small time non-denominational congregations. In the process I've discovered a whole group of spiritual refugees that are wandering as well. Statistics I've consulted indicate that our situation is not unique. In fact, many leaders suspect that the statistics of growth are skewed and show inaccurate figures of growth.

NO CHURCH deletes members from it's records and mailing lists, but they do add new ones. As a result, annual growth of churches is mostly a lie caused by people who are disappointed by one church and flee to another. Actual real additions are less than 4% per year while no real figures exist which show losses. The only real indicators we have are church attendance WHICH IS DOWN to less than 25% of the American population (in 1950 it was over 90%).

Come out from church? Looks like most people have already fled. This interpretation is therefore inaccurate.
Come out from the world? This idea bears considerable investigation.

 

[shilohsfoal]

I dont learn from commontaries.
Insted I learn from the word of God itself.

Revelation 17;18
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

The whore is a city.
I happen to understand from scripture that city is Jerusalem.

 

[revturmoil]

I dont learn from commontaries.
Insted I learn from the word of God itself.

Revelation 17;18
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

The whore is a city.
I happen to understand from scripture that city is Jerusalem.

Which makes you a very poor student with low grades!
The harlot is a city but is that all she is?

Commentaries and using word study tools
help us see other views and the author's intent.

No American can become the man of sin!

 

[shilohsfoal]

Which makes you a very poor student with low grades!
The harlot is a city but is that all she is?

Commentaries and using word study tools
help us see other views and the author's intent.

No American can become the man of sin!

You dont know what makes a poor student .
A poor student is one who pays no attention to his Master.
If the word of God says the whore is a city then it is a city.
If you pay any attention to the word of God then you would have known the children of the city is also called by that name as well.

As for what the angel said about the whore which I quoted.That is for the mind which hath wisdom as verse 9 indicates.
If you have not wisdom ,it is because you lean to your own understanding insted of excepting the truth as a child.