The Heresy of Perfectionism

[Johnlove]

One has to define what perfect is being used contextually.

In scripture The Father calls many perfect, but it doesn't mean infallible.

Yeshua says we must become perfect like The Father, but it is NOT infallible.

So we can be perfect, within the context that people can be.

So perfection is not only possible, but a goal for people.

[SIZE=16pt]And from what authority did that opinion come from?[/SIZE]

John,

I need to clear something up and possibly apologize. First, I totally disagree with your exegesis and your claims of perfection, blah, blah, blah, however......I enjoy your posts because they demand a response, which makes posting on this board fun. My own beliefs are way off sometimes, but I hope it forces people to challenge their beliefs and sharpen their faith.

So basically, I appreciate your heresy because it offers the community a chance to respond. Thank you and please find someone to help you understand scripture.......speculation is one thing, but speculation combined with pride is a whole other animal.

[SIZE=16pt]I have the best teacher ever to teach me to understand the written Word of God. Jesus/Holy Spirit is my teacher. May be that is why very few people can agree with what is posted by me.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Just about everyone else is just allowing man’s understanding of the written teach him or her.[/SIZE]

 

[pom2014]

Hello John,

Please be more specific about what you are referring to in my post.

Is it on the point that we can be perfect?
That perfection is contextual?
Or that it is a goal to be perfect?

Thanks

 

[Johnlove]

Hello John,

Please be more specific about what you are referring to in my post.

Is it on the point that we can be perfect?
That perfection is contextual?
Or that it is a goal to be perfect?

Thanks

One has to define what perfect is being used contextually.
[SIZE=16pt](Matthew 5:48) “Even the pagans do as much, do they not? You must therefore be perfect just as your heavenly Father is perfect.” [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Jesus was[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt] telling us to love as his Father in heaven loved.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]To love, one first has to know God. To know God is to obey God. In obeying God one loves his or her brother. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus came and showed us how God loves us, and to make it possible for us to love.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]We as Christians are to live as Jesus lived, and that is in love.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”[/SIZE]

In scripture The Father calls many perfect, but it doesn't mean infallible.

Yeshua says we must become perfect like The Father, but it is NOT infallible.


So we can be perfect, within the context that people can be.

[SIZE=16pt]No we are not able to be perfect. Only if we have the indwelling of God, can we love as God loves.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt](John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]We are not able to defeat Satan/sin, which is not loving. But God in us make us able to love, as he loved.[/SIZE]

So perfection is not only possible, but a goal for people.

 

[pom2014]

Hi John,

Have you looked he words for perfect in scripture and what they mean?

The Father called Job perfect. But it was the word tam. Which meant perfect in physical attributes.

Yeshua said to be perfect, like The Father. The word here is teleios, which means being the best you, you can be. Like The Father, the best god he can be.

Nowhere in scripture is it to mean infallible for humanity.

The word perfect must be quantified correctly or else the word makes no sense.

Take the word trunk.

The elephant has a trunk. He know that means his nose. Why? The context is on what an elephant has.

Now let's look at this sentence:

Let us examine the trunk of the elephant.

OK now we are into some wording that can be misconstrued. Do we examine the nose? Or the girth of his thoracic area?

We need more quantifying wording.

Let us examine the girth of the trunk of the elephant.

Ah now we have an identification that we are talking about the thoracic area as the nose would be described with width, not girth.

The words with context illuminate what is being said.

Be perfect like the Father.

Well obviously perfect cannot mean infallible, because we ARE fallible.

So we need to look at the word teleios to get the correct meaning.

Hence we CAN be perfect, just not infallibly perfect.

And we are called to be teleios by Yehsua. And as he is God we know he is saying be the best you that you are able to be just like me.

Communication clear and precise.

 

[IanLC]

Agreed we live in relative holiness while here on earth; also known as Christian perfection. God commands us to be holy and thus we should be holy!(Hebrews 12:14)

 

[justaname]

Teleios can also mean complete...

 

[pom2014]

Yes, in the context of what Yeshua is saying to be complete, the best we can be as ourselves, like The Father is the complete him.

He needs nothing added, so should we need nothing more added.

 

[Johnlove]

Hi John,

Have you looked he words for perfect in scripture and what they mean?

The Father called Job perfect. But it was the word tam. Which meant perfect in physical attributes.

Yeshua said to be perfect, like The Father. The word here is teleios, which means being the best you, you can be. Like The Father, the best god he can be.

Nowhere in scripture is it to mean infallible for humanity.

The word perfect must be quantified correctly or else the word makes no sense.

Take the word trunk.

The elephant has a trunk. He know that means his nose. Why? The context is on what an elephant has.

Now let's look at this sentence:

Let us examine the trunk of the elephant.

OK now we are into some wording that can be misconstrued. Do we examine the nose? Or the girth of his thoracic area?

We need more quantifying wording.

Let us examine the girth of the trunk of the elephant.

Ah now we have an identification that we are talking about the thoracic area as the nose would be described with width, not girth.

The words with context illuminate what is being said.

Be perfect like the Father.

Well obviously perfect cannot mean infallible, because we ARE fallible.

So we need to look at the word teleios to get the correct meaning.

Hence we CAN be perfect, just not infallibly perfect.

And we are called to be teleios by Yehsua. And as he is God we know he is saying be the best you that you are able to be just like me.

Communication clear and precise.

[SIZE=16pt]Strange that the translators who translated our bibles did not know what you seem to know, is it not?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Would they then have use a different way to say perfect if you are right?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]You should know that God is a Christian’s teacher. God know what is the correct understanding of the written Word. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2: 27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you; the anointing he gave teaches you everything: you are anointed with truth, not with a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.” [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Man can and does use word meanings to make what he or she wants to believe, seem right.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]When I asked Jesus what seminary to attend, he told me: “NO! Do not read about me I will teach you about me.” By the way Jesus did not mean reading the bible was reading about him.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus meant I was not read what the Christian theologians or other Christian authors wrote. Anyway not the theologians or authors sense Constantine the Great. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus told me what perfect means for me. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus is or has also made it so I can walk as he walked/lived. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”[/SIZE]

 

[pom2014]

John,

Do you ever use a concordance?

 

[Johnlove]

John,

Do you ever use a concordance?

[SIZE=16pt]What does that question have to do with this conversation? [/SIZE]

 

[pom2014]

John,

Because a good concordance will give you the Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew used actually used in scripture and what they meant.

English is not the best language for direct translation.

So knowing the form the words were used in makes it easier to understand scripture.

 

[Johnlove]

John,

Because a good concordance will give you the Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew used actually used in scripture and what they meant.

English is not the best language for direct translation.

So knowing the form the words were used in makes it easier to understand scripture.

[SIZE=16pt]Is that your answer as to my question:[/SIZE] [SIZE=16pt]Strange that the translators who translated our bibles did not know what you seem to know, is it not?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Did you ever think that just may be the Holy Spirit was guiding those who translated our bibles?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Also did Greek words change meanings as English word have?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Do you know if the meaning of a Greek word today is the same as it was in Jesus’ time?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Jesus tells me what a bible verse means. Jesus understands the translations better then you, don’t you agree?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Jesus taught me about him, and I know him. Jesus/God has keep me sin free for forty years. Is that not enough proof that it is God who has been teaching me?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Remember if a tree is good it will bear good fruit.[/SIZE]

 

[pom2014]

John,

Well thanks and have a good day.