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Risen Angel - I agree with a lot of your post. Christianity is all about Love and our relationship with God and others. I am not sure either, why some Christians want to get all gnostic about the Bible and search for hidden meaning - in my experience, God tends to hide the obvious from some people; not magical, mystical knowledge that would only add to our over inflated sense of self.
My experience with God over the years, also leads me to believe that He reveals the same message of relationship and love in deeper and more meaningful ways as our sanctification matures. Perhaps this is the 'hidden' parts?
If you do not believe that the gospel given to Paul was "HIDDEN IN GOD" and revealed to paul then what do you do with the scriptures that tell us it was? Do you just trun a blind eye to it?
Go even further and you will see scriptures that tell us that Paul was the first to be saved under his gospel of grace.
1 Tim 1:15-17
15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.
NKJV
But the religious can not see this verse as meaning what it says. Then they will say "I believe every word in the Bible."
Legalistic people cannot see the love in the Bible. We are called to love, not to know.
The gospel is the good news, that's the meaning of the word. So what if people preach the good news in different ways? Each author is going to write about it differently. Jesus is going to change people in a personal and unique manner, custom defined for their life. He is a personal saviour.
However, I don't think you've grasped what Saul was writing. The law has been fulfilled; therefore, you aren't under it. The law didn't disappear; Jesus said so. The point is that the sacrifice was made, the requirements of God's law have been met. Your blood debt owed to God for your transgression has been taken care of by Jesus - maybe you've heard of him? He kind of saved the world.
"For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." (1 Corinth 6:20)
Look, I'm about to get locked out of this system so I'll post again later, but I think you've missed the boat in certain areas. Jesus is grace and Paul talked about it. The messages they bring are not so completely different as you think.
(((no where in the first 4 gospels and the first few verse of Acts do we see the cross of Christ mentioned.))
Hi Richard,
I'm beginning to read this thread, and just came to this, which hopefully I'm not the first to challenge.
That's an outrageous statement!!!
The cross of Christ is in view for a significant part of each gospel.....
to say nothing of the fact that one of the gospels was written by a man who watched Him being crucified; John Zebedee was the first man to make this point:
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Hi Richard,
I'm beginning to read this thread, and just came to this, which hopefully I'm not the first to challenge.
That's an outrageous statement!!!
The cross of Christ is in view for a significant part of each gospel.....
to say nothing of the fact that one of the gospels was written by a man who watched Him being crucified; John Zebedee was the first man to make this point:
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
That was a good catch df!
I wonder though, Richard's "gospel" ignores Jesus' teaching, so it could be he doesn't even know what the gospels say let alone understand their significance.
I am not saying this in a sarcastic way, I am truly trying to figure out how someone can miss the cross in the 4 gospels?
But do they say that the Gentiles would be saved outside of the Law of Moses simply by placing their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the work of Jesus on the cross?
Hi Richard,
First, here's a clip of Peter's preaching. You will notice that he proclaims the gospel to 'all that are afar off'. Now, why would he do that?
He would do that because Jesus told the eleven this: '... repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Luke 24:47, Matt 28:19, 20
So, when Peter included 'and to all that are afar off' in his sermon on the day of Pentecost, he was intentionally including the Gentiles among whom the Jews (who had come for Passover and Pentecost) normally lived - Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians (Acts 2).
The Jews were the bride of Christ. Today a child of God is a part of the body of Christ. There is a difference.
Peter certainly didn't know it on the day of Pentacost when he was speaking to the Jews.
Hi Richard,
I agree with you that Peter seems to have forgotten about the Gentiles by the time of that vision in Acts, but there is no doubt that he had been instructed to preach to 'all nations' - and that that cannot mean anything but 'to Genties'.
The way I understand how Peter could say that on the day of Pentecost, and 'to you first' to Jews in the Temple at the end of Acts 3, is that he was speaking as the Holy Spirit put the words into his mouth.
I don't know whether you believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit for today, but I do because I've seen its effects in operation many times, and I've seen believers prophesying, and sometimes the message is naturally incomprehensible, just as we see with Peter almost accidentally including Gentiles in his call to repentance. By this, we understand that the Holy Spirit is also the Person who reveals God's meaning to our understanding.
The things of God can not be understood by men unless they are revealed to them by God. As it can be seen, even those to whom Jesus told things His words were hidden from their eyes. Today it is the same, men think they know about God's will for them simple by interpretations of the scriptures and can not see thyat they mean exactly what they say in context.
But in case you didn't read it in GAL. the 12 and Paul made an agreement that the 12 would go to the Jews and Paul to the Gentiles. If you believe the scriptures then you will believe that Peter and the other only went to the Jews.
RichardBurger and Whitestone,
1. Do you believe the Spirit of God teaches us and leads us into all truth?
2. Do you believe what Christ taught? You require your own oil.
Jesus never rescinded the law of Moses and yet when Jesus gave Paul the “HIDDEN IN GOD” message to the Gentiles it was a message (gospel) of grace, not law.
1a. yes
2a. I believe that what Jesus taught was to the Jews, not the Gentiles.
Jesus Christ, by His own words, did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the "kingdom of heaven" to the Gentiles. The following scriptures support my view.