The Holy Spirit only in the church!

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Matthias

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the HS is given to the church!
Not to heretics!

“What the priests and nuns at these residential schools did to us was evil,” Dawson said. “But the worst thing they did to us: They made us indigenous people hate the name of Jesus.”

(Isabel Ong, “Beyond Pope’s Apology, Indigenous Christians Carve Own Path to Healing”)

Beyond Pope’s Apology, Indigenous Christians Carve Own Path to Healing

Test the spirits.

What was done to them wasn’t the work of the Holy Spirit.
 

Jim B

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“What the priests and nuns at these residential schools did to us was evil,” Dawson said. “But the worst thing they did to us: They made us hate the name of Jesus."

(Isabel Ong, “Beyond Pope’s Apology, Indigenous Christians Carve Own Path to Healing”)

Beyond Pope’s Apology, Indigenous Christians Carve Own Path to Healing

Test the spirits.

What was done to them wasn’t the work of the Holy Spirit.

One of their slogans was "Kill the Indian, save the child". Imagine!

There are many deaths of innocent people caused by the Catholics. It doesn't take much to understand why they hate the name of Jesus.
 

theefaith

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“What the priests and nuns at these residential schools did to us was evil,” Dawson said. “But the worst thing they did to us: They made us indigenous people hate the name of Jesus.”

(Isabel Ong, “Beyond Pope’s Apology, Indigenous Christians Carve Own Path to Healing”)

Beyond Pope’s Apology, Indigenous Christians Carve Own Path to Healing

Test the spirits.

What was done to them wasn’t the work of the Holy Spirit.

how can we really know the truth in these matters?

Where is the gratitude for getting kids out of pagan homes with poverty stricken drunken parents and giving them a good education and a chance for a good life and the true faith of Jesus Christ!

where is the praise for all the good that was done in charity???
 

Matthias

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how can we really know the truth in these matters?

Where is the gratitude for getting kids out of pagan homes with poverty stricken drunken parents and giving them a good education and a chance for a good life and the true faith of Jesus Christ!

where is the praise for all the good that was done in charity???

Good on the pope (whom you suspect is apostate) for apologizing for the evil that was done.

Good on all who do good.
 

EloyCraft

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Faith is required to be in the new covenant church. Baptism is not; it is a ritual statement by a believer (which is why infant sprinkling is invalid).
Jim, if you insist on full immersion but forbid sprinkling you are abusing a man made tradition for the sake of another. Baptism is necessary as the traditions that accommodate the circumstances like the need to Baptize in places of scarce water.
At first Living Water was necessary. But not everyone has a river handy. Knowing God wouldn't let that prevent new converts enter the fold they understood full immersion is ok. Similarly By means of water availability and practicality the Holy Spirit confirmed sprinkling valid.

By not allowing sprinkling because you believe it is about infant baptism you can't see that it's the proper use of manmade tradition because it eases the burden of fulfilling God's command.
Why would the necessity of Faith exclude the necessity of Baptism?
 

theefaith

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Jim, if you insist on full immersion but forbid sprinkling you are abusing a man made tradition for the sake of another. Baptism is necessary as the traditions that accommodate the circumstances like the need to Baptize in places of scarce water.
At first Living Water was necessary. But not everyone has a river handy. Knowing God wouldn't let that prevent new converts enter the fold they understood full immersion is ok. Similarly By means of water availability and practicality the Holy Spirit confirmed sprinkling valid.

By not allowing sprinkling because you believe it is about infant baptism you can't see that it's the proper use of manmade tradition because it eases the burden of fulfilling God's command.
Why would the necessity of Faith exclude the necessity of Baptism?

And you CANNOT enter the king yourself by faith alone!

it MUST be ministered to you!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
 

theefaith

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Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!




“Faith alone”

Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2
 

theefaith

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nfant Baptism is biblical!

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say accept infants!)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!
 

EloyCraft

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When John Baptized Jesus the Holy Spirit immediately drove Jesus into the desert.
Why was Jesus driven?
He wouldn't go there otherwise. That was John's rule of life. This pattern is the power of Baptism.
The Holy Spirits power denied.
John's Baptism demonstrates how the sign is what happens. Noah's flood. Water wiped out the original sin on the earth. But the earth would not be free of concupiscence.
When we are Baptized in the Name of The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit will act and if we cooperate like Jesus did and let the Holy Spirit drive us towards a death like Jesus' we offer the Father a Sacrifice united to His Sons.
A Baptism that does nothing is nothing.
 

Matthias

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I’m just about to finish reading the Epistles of Cyprian. This is one of his major arguments, which my friend @theefaith may very well have known. I wish I could speak with him about it.

Goodnight Mr. @theefaith, wherever you are.
 
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atpollard

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the Holy Spirit will act and if we cooperate
... does the phrase "if we cooperate" not call into question the Omnipotence of the Holy Spirit (part of the Godhead)?
A Baptism that does nothing is nothing.
I 100% agree ... fortunately, we are not counting on a man or some water to empower the change "not performed by human hands" [Colossians 2:11], for we are "God's handiwork" [Ephesians 2:10] and it is He that "works in [us] to will and to act" [Philippians 2:13].
 

Rockerduck

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The church is with the people, not a building.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 - Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.