The Key to Discipleship

[Episkopos]

What must we do to be able to "endure" a sound doctrine that leads us into becoming a faithful disciple? "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the "iniquitous" man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon". Is. 55:7

 

[Episkopos]

Some will think I'm being "mean" for simply citing bible verses that contradict the idea that all is peachy keen with the calling of God in Christ. Others will think I'm inventing scenarios that are clearly laid out in the bible...just not to be taken seriously by believers.

I see the truth being divided into two categories. There's the sweet truth and the bitter truth. Almost like a good/news bad news thing.

For example: God is love (sweet truth)...but those whom God loves He chastens and beats and rebukes (bitter truth)

"For whom the Lord loves he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives." Heb. 12:6


Depending on how we receive the truth, we don't necessarily have to bear the bitter truth...if we receive it as a child would....innocently.

But as we seek to justify ourselves and claim things ONLY on the sweet side...we become aware that God has made provision for our unruly flesh and our innate lawlessness. When we try combining holiness with ANYTHING else, we get a mixture called iniquity. That iniquity makes the truth bitter for us even as we try to only take in the sweet promises.

Can we take the sweet parts of the bible and leave the reproofs and what we would consider as "harsh" or bitter out?


The fact that so many will resist the bitter truth only goes to show how bitterness is to be the end of many. In Rev. 10 we have the prophecy of the "little book". Why a small book? Well, take out all the exhortations, warnings, reproofs, disciplines and you get a very nice sounding book...but a small one. When that now small book is tasted it is sweet...but as it goes down into the belly it becomes bitter.

"And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roars: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And swear by him that lives for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he has declared to his servants the prophets. And the voice which I heard from heaven spoke unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which stands upon the sea and upon the earth. And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make your belly bitter, but it shall be in your mouth sweet as honey. And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. And he said unto me, You must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings." Rev. 10

 

[amadeus]

Some will think I'm being "mean" for simply citing bible verses that contradict the idea that all is peachy keen with the calling of God in Christ. Others will think I'm inventing scenarios that are clearly laid out in the bible...just not to be taken seriously by believers.

I see the truth being divided into two categories. There's the sweet truth and the bitter truth. Almost like a good/news bad news thing.

For example: God is love (sweet truth)...but those whom God loves He chastens and beats and rebukes (bitter truth)

"For whom the Lord loves he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives." Heb. 12:6


Depending on how we receive the truth, we don't necessarily have to bear the bitter truth...if we receive it as a child would....innocently.

But as we seek to justify ourselves and claim things ONLY on the sweet side...we become aware that God has made provision for our unruly flesh and our innate lawlessness. When we try combining holiness with ANYTHING else, we get a mixture called iniquity. That iniquity makes the truth bitter for us even as we try to only take in the sweet promises.

Can we take the sweet parts of the bible and leave the reproofs and what we would consider as "harsh" or bitter out?


The fact that so many will resist the bitter truth only goes to show how bitterness is to be the end of many. In Rev. 10 we have the prophecy of the "little book". Why a small book? Well, take out all the exhortations, warnings, reproofs, disciplines and you get a very nice sounding book...but a small one. When that now small book is tasted it is sweet...but as it goes down into the belly it becomes bitter.

"And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roars: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And swear by him that lives for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he has declared to his servants the prophets. And the voice which I heard from heaven spoke unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which stands upon the sea and upon the earth. And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make your belly bitter, but it shall be in your mouth sweet as honey. And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. And he said unto me, You must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings." Rev. 10

We are to love the truth...all of the truth:

2th 2:10	And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2th 2:11	And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2th 2:12	That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

If we love only the blessings, but not the curses and chastisements and rebukes included in the truth, then will God not send us strong delusions? Is it possible please God while riding the fence?

 

[Episkopos]

Do we have confidence in the Lord? Then let us boldly go to the throne of grace to obtain mercy (for our iniquity and unbelief) and thus receive grace from God that rescues us in our present state.

"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." Heb. 4:16

Today if you hear His voice, don't harden your hearts.

"There remains therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[Lizbeth]

Do we have confidence in the Lord? Then let us boldly go to the throne of grace to obtain mercy (for our iniquity and unbelief) and thus receive grace from God that rescues us in our present state.

"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." Heb. 4:16

Today if you hear His voice, don't harden your hearts.

"There remains therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Don't let us forget that Paul wrote that we who believe have entered that rest. Does anyone see the "yes" part to a "yes but not necessarily yet" to these things? (IF that's the right way to think of it.)

What I am certain of is that Paul was speaking/writing firstly to the Jews/Hebrews about entering the land of promise and rest through receiving the gospel and Messiah/Christ by faith. HE is what had been promised to them - rest from working to establish their own righteousness under the Law - through faith in HIM. That's what he was talking about in the book of Hebrews to the Hebrews:


Heb 4:2-3

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said,



Rom 9:30-33

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.



Rom 10:3

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.



Rom 10:4

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Gal 2:21

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Phl 1:11

Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Phl 3:9

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

 

[Episkopos]

Don't let us forget that Paul wrote that we who believe have entered that rest. Does anyone see the "yes" part to a "yes but not necessarily yet" to these things? (IF that's the right way to think of it.)

What I am certain of is that Paul was speaking/writing firstly to the Jews/Hebrews about entering the land of promise and rest through receiving the gospel and Messiah/Christ by faith. HE is what had been promised to them - rest from working to establish their own righteousness under the Law - through faith in HIM. That's what he was talking about in the book of Hebrews to the Hebrews:


Heb 4:2-3

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said,



Rom 9:30-33

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.



Rom 10:3

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.



Rom 10:4

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Gal 2:21

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Phl 1:11

Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Phl 3:9

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

Keep pushing off the warnings of the NT onto non-believers and Jews. How obfuscating can one get? Read Romans 11 :17-21. Try wiggling out of that. Let the obfuscating begin!

 

[Behold]

What must we do to be able to "endure" a sound doctrine that leads us into becoming a faithful disciple? "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the "iniquitous" man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon". Is. 55:7

Legalists (you) always try to use the OT law to try to deny the Grace of God.

Listen..

Discipleship, is not what YOU DO..., as that is not real Christianity.
See, RELIGION is what you are teaching.........= "do this, do that, try harder, ">.. and that is not CHRISTianity., nor discipleship.
You dont understand this, as you go bout trying to "do righteousness" vs being made righteous by Christ's Sacrifice.

So, DISCIPLESHIP< is not the process of trying to do it, as you would constantly try to mislead people into thinking.

Disciplship, is "God in me, doing righteousness through me".

It's "I can do all things through CHRIST">.. not...>"here is how you try to do it", as your Legalism falsely teaches, @Episkopos

 

[Episkopos]

Legalists (you) always try to use the OT law to try to deny the Grace of God.

False grace purveyors like yourself always try to get away from being obedient to God. If you love God, you obey Him. But that doesn't work for you...since it is based on self-love ...not God's selfless love. Big difference.

Grace fulfills the law.

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Rom. 8:4

In your OTHER gospel scheme...you would have the above verse to read...fulfilled in Christ (so we can stay spoiled sinners)

Listen..

Discipleship, is not what YOU DO..., as that is not real Christianity.
See, RELIGION is what you are teaching.........= "do this, do that, try harder, ">.. and that is not CHRISTianity., nor discipleship.
You dont understand this, as you go bout trying to "do righteousness" vs being made righteous by Christ's Sacrifice.

So, DISCIPLESHIP< is not the process of trying to do it, as you would constantly try to mislead people into thinking.

Disciplship, is "God in me, doing righteousness through me".

It's "I can do all things through CHRIST">.. not...>"here is how you try to do it", as your Legalism falsely teaches, @Episkopos

Nice...saying what I teach and then saying you teach the same. Are you seeing that grace empowers a person to walk as Jesus?

Or is that too much grace for you?

 

[Behold]

False grace purveyors like yourself always try to get away from being obedient to God. I

there is no such thing as "false grace"
There is God's Grace, who is Christ on the Cross, as "the one time eternal sacrifice for Sin".

There is God's Grace that is posted in the verses below......, and if it ever meets you, you'll never again say that Jesus is a "whipping boy", or that the Grace of God is "free stuff".

Ad then, you'll have it for yourself, and you'll show it some respect.

You're not there yet, @Episkopos
-

New International Version
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

New Living Translation
For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.

English Standard Version
that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

Berean Standard Bible
that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Berean Literal Bible
how that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not reckoning their trespasses to them, and having put into us the word of reconciliation.

King James Bible
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

New King James Version
that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

New American Standard Bible
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

NASB 1995
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

NASB 1977
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Legacy Standard Bible
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their transgressions against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Amplified Bible
that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting people’s sins against them [but canceling them]. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation [that is, restoration to favor with God].

 

[Behold]

Nice...saying what I teach and then saying you teach the same.

That would be impossible.

You teach some hybrid Calvinism, Mormonism, sci-fi theology, that is not connected to anything that is related to the "Gospel of the Grace of God".

This is why you bite back when anyone brings up The Cross as the Grace of God.

You're teaching.... is a bizarre "religious legalistic cocktail" that is profoundly Self righteous.

And your "higher walk in Zion" that is a blend of Mormonism and whatever other "teacher" you have borrowed from........ well. my advice, is to borrow from people who are actually born again.
Start there.
Build from that place, if you are going to play theologian.

In other words. Go directly to Paul, and stay THERE.

And saying...>"that's what i do", is too funny......so, lets not let you play that game, @Episkopos .

 

[Lizbeth]

Keep pushing off the warnings of the NT onto non-believers and Jews. How obfuscating can one get? Read Romans 11 :17-21. Try wiggling out of that. Let the obfuscating begin!

No I'm not pushing anything off to anyone. Just trying to establish the foundation. No building can stand without a foundation.

If you think I was wrong, then please explain how I was in error with those scrips I brought. Seems so clear to me what they are showing, but you feel free to explain. The gospel is to the Jew first, no? Paul was talking about the gospel in Heb. 4 in his writing to the Jews...says so right there. I'm sure many of them were believers but among them would have been some unbelievers and seekers, those still on the fence, and he was exhorting and encouraging them all with regard to the gospel.

The Law was given to them in the wilderness, not in the promised land....promised land of rest alluded to better things and was obtained by FAITH. AKA the gospel. Correct?

And just to add, I have no argument with Romans 11:17-21 at all, and often have referred to them over the years.....no idea why you think or assume that I would have a problem or any reason to want to "wiggle" out of that. ( I believe it's referring to the Israel of God, of which the Jews are the natural branches and Gentiles are the unnatural branches - commonwealth of Israel, not Israel after the flesh....but I don't know how you view that.)

 

[Episkopos]

there is no such thing as "false grace"
There is God's Grace, who is Christ on the Cross, as "the one time eternal sacrifice for Sin".

There is God's Grace that is posted in the verses below......, and if it ever meets you, you'll never again say that Jesus is a "whipping boy", or that the Grace of God is "free stuff".

Ad then, you'll have it for yourself, and you'll show it some respect.

You're not there yet, @Episkopos
-

New International Version
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

New Living Translation
For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.

English Standard Version
that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

Berean Standard Bible
that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Berean Literal Bible
how that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not reckoning their trespasses to them, and having put into us the word of reconciliation.

King James Bible
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

New King James Version
that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

New American Standard Bible
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

NASB 1995
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

NASB 1977
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Legacy Standard Bible
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their transgressions against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Amplified Bible
that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting people’s sins against them [but canceling them]. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation [that is, restoration to favor with God].

You may not have noticed but it says "world" in the verse...not church...not religious enthusiasts...WORLD. That doesn't mean what you think it does. The world represents ALL flesh. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. But you claim that YOUR SINS are covered. Based on what? A verse about the whole world. Either you are a universalist...or you lack reading skills.

God did not count the world as sinful when He sent His Son...that means He sent His Son in SPITE of the sinfulness of people.

You actually don't understand the bible at all.

 

[Episkopos]

That would be impossible.

You teach some hybrid Calvinism, Mormonism, sci-fi theology, that is not connected to anything that is related to the "Gospel of the Grace of God".

This is why you bite back when anyone brings up The Cross as the Grace of God.

You're teaching.... is a bizarre "religious legalistic cocktail" that is profoundly Self righteous.

And your "higher walk in Zion" that is a blend of Mormonism and whatever other "teacher" you have borrowed from........ well. my advice, is to borrow from people who are actually born again.
Start there.
Build from that place, if you are going to play theologian.

In other words. Go directly to Paul, and stay THERE.

And saying...>"that's what i do", is too funny......so, lets not let you play that game, @Episkopos .

Spiritual things are foolishness to the carnally minded. You twist Paul to your own destruction.

 

[Lizbeth]

You may not have noticed but it says "world" in the verse...not church...not religious enthusiasts...WORLD. That doesn't mean what you think it does. The world represents ALL flesh. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. But you claim that YOUR SINS are covered. Based on what? A verse about the whole world. Either you are a universalist...or you lack reading skills.

God did not count the world as sinful when He sent His Son...that means He sent His Son in SPITE of the sinfulness of people.

You actually don't understand the bible at all.

Hmm, so what I gather is that you love the lost world until we come to Christ, then you hate us for believing we have been saved by faith through Him.

Yes, Jesus died to make atonement for the world - ie, the nations, Gentiles, not just for Israel alone - that all who come to Him, both Jew and Gentile, might be saved by FAITH through Him. That is, all who are "appointed unto salvation" - who are elect, foreknown - whereby it is apparent that not everyone is. (Need to remember these things were all written to the Jew/Israel FIRST....it's all in the old testament.....the mystery of God HID from the foundation of the world, but revealed in the new.)

 

[Episkopos]

Hmm, so what I gather is that you love the lost world until we come to Christ, then you hate us for believing we have been saved by faith through Him.

No. You hate those who love because it threatens your religious preferred status based on your religious beliefs. I'm speaking the truth in love....patiently correcting, rebuking and instructing those who would condemn me on that day for not warning them stringently enough.

The gospel is about power. But you are into a special belief dividend based on a god who is desperate for approval?

For God so loved the world...not the world system...but the people. You would it say....For God so HATED the world that He condemned it so that only the rich assumers and presumers could be saved. Should we all become pretenders and "fake it till you make it" types that you have been conditioned to become?

Or is this about an eternal reality that overcomes the world? For real!

You have learned to hate people based on a "saved/unsaved" dichotomy. Even then...you judge other believers on whether they are unmerciful like you or not. If they are unmerciful...you love that...it proves how exclusively saved you see yourself as being. A full lack of discernment can't see how Pharisaical that is.

Yes, Jesus died to make atonement for the world - ie, the nations, Gentiles, not just for Israel alone - that all who come to Him, both Jew and Gentile, might be saved by FAITH through Him. That is, all who are "appointed unto salvation" - who are elect, foreknown - whereby it is apparent that not everyone is. (Need to remember these things were all written to the Jew/Israel FIRST....it's all in the old testament.....the mystery of God HID from the foundation of the world, but revealed in the new.)

The elect are the saints. But not only saints are saved. The saints rule and reign with Christ over the nations in the next age. VERY few who say they are believers are saints....very very few. And those who lie about their true condition...being liars...are NOT included among the righteous and the meek, So these fall between the cracks...being neither holy nor righteous. Such are spit out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and anger.

 

[Lizbeth]

No. You hate those who love because it threatens your religious preferred status based on your religious beliefs. I'm speaking the truth in love....patiently correcting, rebuking and instructing those who would condemn me on that day for not warning them stringently enough.

The gospel is about power. But you are into a special belief dividend based on a god who is desperate for approval?

For God so loved the world...not the world system...but the people. You would it say....For God so HATED the world that He condemned it so that only the rich assumers and presumers could be saved. Should we all become pretenders and "fake it till you make it" types that you have been conditioned to become?

Or is this about an eternal reality that overcomes the world? For real!

You have learned to hate people based on a "saved/unsaved" dichotomy. Even then...you judge other believers on whether they are unmerciful like you or not. If they are unmerciful...you love that...it proves how exclusively saved you see yourself as being. A full lack of discernment can't see how Pharisaical that is.

The elect are the saints. But not only saints are saved. The saints rule and reign with Christ over the nations in the next age. VERY few who say they are believers are saints....very very few. And those who lie about their true condition...being liars...are NOT included among the righteous and the meek, So these fall between the cracks...being neither holy nor righteous. Such are spit out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and anger.

My, you are always assuming and presuming all kinds of unsavory nonsense about those who you hate.

The elect are all the saved. And we are ruling and reigning with Him now in this age, if we have FAITH to believe it....more than conquerors....casting out devils, healing the sick, etc......signs following the preaching of the gospel. All authority in heaven and earth (that means rule) was already given to Jesus. This used to be taught back in the day....but nowadays the churches just kind of sit and wait for His rule & reign to start from wrongfully believing that it hasn't started yet.

This world and its kingdoms get judged and burned up at His coming, so don't expect utopia on this earth at any time. We are looking for a new heavens/earth....ie, an heavenly.....all hopes and affections ABOVE......and so shall we forever be with the Lord when He comes. And Jesus hands the kingdom back over to the Father when He comes, after He is finished gathering the wheat into the barn and judging and gathering out of His kingdom all the wicked and unbelieving. Need to go read those new testament scrips again without them being coloured and confused by a wrong understanding of Rev. Once we've got a good handle on those scrips that came first, then let them inform our understanding of Rev, not the other way around.

 

[Episkopos]

My, you are always assuming and presuming all kinds of unsavory nonsense about those who you hate.

You have it figured wrong. I'm not the bigoted one here looking who for to condemn. Repent and believe the gospel.

The elect are all the saved.

Not so. God's mercy is a lot bigger than your religious schemes.

And we are ruling and reigning with Him now in this age,

False. The church has mostly been overcome. A few walk with God...the saints. People can't even rule over their own flesh.

if we have FAITH to believe it

That's not faith...that's religious beliefs. Faith unleashes real grace. The power of God usward who believe.

....more than conquerors....casting out devils, healing the sick, etc......signs following the preaching of the gospel. All authority in heaven and earth (that means rule) was already given to Jesus. This used to be taught back in the day....but nowadays the churches just kind of sit and wait for His rule & reign to start from wrongfully believing that it hasn't started yet.

There also used to be saints....and preaching AGAINST iniquity...rather than publishing it.

This world and its kingdoms get judged and burned up at His coming, so don't expect utopia on this earth at any time. We are looking for a new heavens/earth....ie, an heavenly.....all hopes and affections ABOVE......and so shall we forever be with the Lord when He comes. And Jesus hands the kingdom back over to the Father when He comes, after He is finished gathering the wheat into the barn and judging and gathering out of His kingdom all the wicked and unbelieving. Need to go read those new testament scrips again without them being coloured and confused by a wrong understanding of Rev. Once we've got a good handle on those scrips that came first, then let them inform our understanding of Rev, not the other way around.

Backwards. If one doesn't walk with God now....there won't be any front seat to see what God does later.

 

[Episkopos]

There are SOOOO many errors in the modern indoctrination that it would take weeks of de-programming to even scratch the surface of it.

The bible does NOT say that only the elect are saved. Only the elect are saved FROM SIN NOW. But inheriting life extends beyond the holy and includes the meek, those who suffer injustice, the widows, the fatherless...etc God will have mercy on who He wills. And the nations will be filled with those who are deemed by God as righteous. And the saints will rule over them.

God is a God of mercy. All who condemn those on whom God will show mercy are destined to be judged with that same judgment.

 

[Lizbeth]

You have it figured wrong. I'm not the bigoted one here looking who for to condemn. Repent and believe the gospel.


Not so. God's mercy is a lot bigger than your religious schemes.


False. The church has mostly been overcome. A few walk with God...the saints. People can't even rule over their own flesh.



That's not faith...that's religious beliefs. Faith unleashes real grace. The power of God usward who believe.


There also used to be saints....and preaching AGAINST iniquity...rather than publishing it.

Backwards. If one doesn't walk with God now....there won't be any front seat to see what God does later.

Still avoiding the scriptures I see.

 

[Lizbeth]

There are SOOOO many errors in the modern indoctrination that it would take weeks of de-programming to even scratch the surface of it.

The bible does NOT say that only the elect are saved. Only the elect are saved FROM SIN NOW. But inheriting life extends beyond the holy and includes the meek, those who suffer injustice, the widows, the fatherless...etc God will have mercy on who He wills. And the nations will be filled with those who are deemed by God as righteous. And the saints will rule over them.

God is a God of mercy. All who condemn those on whom God will show mercy are destined to be judged with that same judgment.

I would bring some scriptures to address some of this, but you would just ignore them.