if you wish, show me what you think is extra scriptural in what he is teaching? I dont have time to read every post here, and only read about 6 or seven before commenting....
The Key to Discipleship
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lol...meant lots of love, sorry you took it the wrong way, and may I just say also,,,whatever I believe the “ Spirit “ places on my heart to say, it will be posted.
I can not deny the Living word of God, if he relays a message to my heart to be posted, .as I’m “ Born Again “...what I believe is from the Lord is always checked out with scripture......I’m also here to Glorify God and his resurrection power,....The Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in believers,The power of God's Spirit is such that even the inevitable deaths of our bodies cannot deny the life of God's Spirit. God's Spirit will give life to our bodies in the same way as God's Spirit did to Christ's body.
Romans 8:11
“But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”
Anything you think I post is “ skewed” please challenge me on it and I will try and explain what I mean using scripture....
Ps...next time we interact instead of posting lol, I will post lots of love or xxx, so as not to be misunderstood.
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Well thanks for your reply David.
I hear what you are saying and I disagree with your entire argument for reasons I think won't serve either one of us at this point.
If you can really see what Epi is saying please become a translator. I do not want to peg anyone even if they cannot be articulate or be clear in such a crucial area of a believer's life.
I would not broad-brush and think that all are like the Laodiceans, being lukewarm in their walk etc. If we stay at this level of thought and throw darts to others in our posts then we will never address the details and keep moving like on a rotating LP record that has a bad spot on it , and with the stylus stuck on it, as it keeps repeating the same notes...like a broken record would be simpler to say I guess.,,dah
Yes, there are many with the LC disease. And then there are many who have a very active spiritual lifestyle in Christ. I just want to get to the gnat's rear end on this new gospel l am being presented with here. That is what I need translated and so far without success.
And I thought I could at least readily understand it even for a general level.....not happening
And the Spirit is revealed to those in Christ already, and there are many.
Sorry that your laptop is broken. Can you overlay the text and then press Cntrl-C to copy and then paste with Cntrl- V?
Great weekend David...
Alright then. For starters scripture that might translate a 'higher walk' as the upward calling presented by Paul in his zeal to win his prize as given as an allegory of running a race with only one winner. And then the 'lower walk' in scripture that I cannot seem to find in scripture even remotely or as inferred. Both walks have several meanings attached that seem farfetched, and relate to a carnal-type walker in the Spirit and the other of a saint who is doing as Paul suggests for his own life and others. This is one big area of confusion.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Being born again, is how you begin the journey into the spiritual realm.
And learning how to work our your salvation as Paul teaches, is how you not only find your wings, but enter into the Light where they are meant to soar.
So, know this... you have to start here to get those "wings" up and running.
Romans 3:21-28
Hebrews 13:9
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 3:17
Romans 4:9
And you'll need a real bible, and if you are using the NIV then that has to be resolved.
Get a real Bible.
Study.
Behold
Well-Known Member
If you believe that, then you are a long way from the "Gift of Salvation".
Let me show you what he posted.. yesterday..
Episkapos wrote to me when i told Him that Jesus Died on the Cross, and this is Forgiveness of Sin.. .This is the preaching of the Cross..
He wrote back to me, this Quote...
"""""False as can be. The cross is not about forgiveness of sins."""""
So @David H. , you just said that He is preaching the "true Gospel that the apostles preached".
And i can promise you that Paul's gospel is that Jesus died for your sin.. on the Cross.
Episkops said that is "false as can be, The Cross is not about forgiveness of sin"...
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Nice way to manipulate my words. God has always been merciful...ready to forgive. Jesus died to TAKE AWAY the sins of the world...not cover them up. Atonement is about CLEANSING to make holy.
Again its superficiality trying to deny the depth of the truth.
Doesn't faith in Jesus go further than the correct head knowledge and doctrine?
What if you have a better grasp on doctrine than most but you become puffed up, insufferable, and full of insults for others in the process? Why not be patient or move on?
I'm not saying, we all have to pretend to agree and be nice. But it's hard to watch these crusades to course-correct others with no self-awareness or humility.
Has anyone ever been insulted and dismissed into better theology?
What if you have a better grasp on doctrine than most but you become puffed up, insufferable, and full of insults for others in the process? Why not be patient or move on?
I'm not saying, we all have to pretend to agree and be nice. But it's hard to watch these crusades to course-correct others with no self-awareness or humility.
Has anyone ever been insulted and dismissed into better theology?
Wyonna: Yes to your first two questions and no, or not really to the 3rd and last one.
And not to let an open wound fester, and because I want to share..heheh, IMO both Epi and Behold are right in their view of the reason for the Cross and shed blood of Christ.
To provide the way for the forgiveness of sin and thus to cleanse us to perfection, yes in holiness, and restore us to God into immortality, if and only if we believe by saving faith in the Son of God as the 1st begotten of his Father.....scripture can be added.
Behold
Well-Known Member
I posted your words.
You wrote them.
Here they are...
"""""False as can be. The cross is not about forgiveness of sins."""""
So, when you try to explain this, it just makes it worse for you...
Listen carefully.
YOU, ME, all of use are told to FORGIVE.... one another, to forgive those who despitefully use you.
Forgive what?
Their Transgression (SIN) they committed against you.
So, Jesus on THE CROSS is forgiving the entire world's SINNING = Against God.
How?
By dying for all your Sin........as that is how God's forgiveness, forgives.
See, if Jesus does not die for your sin, then you die in it..
If you are not FORGIVEN your sin, then you die UNFORGIVEN.
Jesus Dying for your sin, on the Cross, is the only reason God FORGIVES Your Sin.
So, to say that """the Cross is not about Forgiveness""", is to deny the reason that Jesus Hung on it for you.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Sin, has to be forgiven, or it can't be cleansed.
There has to be a basis for the cleansing.., just as there has to be a basis for God giving a Believer the "Gift of Salvation".
That is the Cross of Christ, where God forgives all your sin.
So, @APAK, when you tell Wynona that you agree that "The cross is not about forgiveness of sin", and you just agreed, then you just became the same as the one who said it.
So, think again before you tell these members that "they are both right" as one of us said that "The CROSS is not about forgiveness of Sin".
So, if the Cross is not about forgiveness of sin, then go right ahead and agree with Episkopos, again.
Jesus told YOU, that "I have the power to FORGIVE sin"
That's Matthew 9:6 and you might try reading it before you decide to mediate for the Mod, again.
And that Same Jesus who said that.. went to the Cross to FORGIVE the sin of the world, and Episkops said.. ."FALSE..., the Cross is not about forgiveness of sin".
Yet Jesus just said HE is the FORGIVER of Sin. Matthew 9:6
And HE is the one that died for YOURS on THE Cross.
And i'll give you one more for your "study time"..
Jesus on the Cross, said...>"Father FORGIVE THEM... for they know not what they do".
So, Pass that along to Epi., as he needs to know why Jesus died on THE Cross, as he stated that " the Cross is NOT about Forgiveness of Sin."
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Paul said that Satan's ministers come as ministers of '""Righteousness.""""
That means that they present an idea of how to be saved, how to be made right with God, but its not the right Truth.
And why does that matter, ????? and why do we have to understand what isn't true,?
Its because if you believe wrong, you dont go to heaven when you die., even tho you believed something that you thought was True because someone you trusted or LIKED< deceived you right into Hell, in the end
So, the Devil's Job, His Ministry is to Fake TRUTH, so that it sounds true and deceives you, and then he uses this "minister" to teach , to preach, .... to write commentaries, and to create "new bibles".
They also start denominations and build churches and start "christian forums".
The Born again, are to be on guard against all this...
JUDE calls it.. ."contending for the real faith".. and contending is a BATTLE, and that is why Paul refers to real believers as being SOLDIERS. who wear ARMOR.
Paul then says that we are to prove our own faith.. we are to test our own belief, and make certain our faith has not become corrupted and broken.
And why does that happen?
Paul says..>""""WHO ( a person) has BEWITCHED YOU, that you no longer obey the TRUTH"."""
And what im showing you @Wynona, is that these deceivers are on every forum, including this one.
What they teach, sounds true, but denies the Cross, = every single time, often very slightly,. but its just enough to DENY IT.
Why is this so important to understand?
Its because wrong faith causes you to not go to heaven when you die, and that is why the Devil has so much Theology and so many false denominations, up and running.
He loves Christian forums as most of them are Modded by the wrong rule.
See, Most Christian forums are not concerned with people kept from Going to Hell.
They only worry that..>"""""your tone is just harsh, and even if they are a proven DEVIL, you need to show then some LOVE"."".
See that?
That is exactly the WRONG reason that Forums use "moderation" and "banning".
Listen,
Set aside the "Usual christian cults". and just look at Islam.
Billion of them BELIEVE their Quran and will die and go to Hell, while trying to blow you up with a bomb, if they had one and knew your address.
These same just went into Israel, MY HOME, last OCT 7, and chopped up jewish babies and burned Jewish families to death after tying them up with barbed wire.
And these Satanic DEVILS filmed it on their Cell Phones.
Hundreds of short little murder movies they made to show their children, later.
They are training them... their children to HATE JEWS, and KILL JEWS.
And they BELIEVE they are serving God.
Why? Because the Devil has sold these Muslims UNTRUTH as Truth., and in Christianity He does the same thing...
He sells LIES , theological lies, using deceived People who believe they are telling you the truth.
He also does it on This Forum.
Believe it.
<B><
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The cross is about so much more than forgiveness of sins, as EPI pointed out you misquoted him... you do that alot. If your stuck on the forgiveness of sins you have not walked the very far on your journey.
SermonIndex.net Audio Sermons - Sermon Index
Founded in 2002. The mission of SermonIndex is the preservation and propagation of classical Biblical preaching and the promotion of Christ-centered revival to this generation.
Above links for you, thanks...
As for the Broken record, Notice how the "fundy gang" always shows up where the Spirit is alive
AS For Lower walk.... It is more akin to Spiritual infancy and perpetually walking in it. The writer of hebrews lamented "By Now you ought to be teachers" Paul wrote so long as you are arguing I am of Paul or I am of Appollus you are infants of the faith. suckling on milk and not meat. The Lower walk is there in scripture, as much as the higher walk.... The One system that keeps people suckling on milk is fundamentalism which which limits God's word to the pages of a Book. They deny Revelation of the Spirit which was so vital to the apostolic church, who never had a complete written word like we do today. Satan would love nothing more than to have the entire church walking in the lower walk which is why we see the strides being made by the lawless in this western civilization.
"So, @APAK, when you tell Wynona that you agree that "The cross is not about forgiveness of sin", and you just agreed, then you just became the same as the one who said it."
Getting ahead of yourself again I see Behold.
It is about the forgiveness of sin Behold. I never said the contrary.
Look Behold, what did I agree with Wyonna? You do not really know now do you. You are focused only on the forgiveness of sins for all portion without regarding the purpose.
Sin can now be forgiven for salvation only if one believes in faith to salvation Behold. it is not automatic for anyone to become saved , then and today. You are missing the purpose the salvation goal. Yes, he forgave all sin on the cross although this is not for an automatic pass and salvation Behold.
This atonement and self-sacrifice for the forgiveness of our sins is the path or open gateway that provides the way for the forgiveness of sin to salvation. One must accept it for ourselves and with sincere repentance Behold. Christ became sin for us eventhough he never sinned. You go to far when you imply this means (automatic) forgiveness of sins for all without noting the purpose. Is not belief and faith involved in this salvation equation as well?
And your scripture like Matt 9:6 you quote as support is not about the Cross Behold. Christ forgave sins as he wished as his Father also approved. We are speaking about his death on the Cross here and not performing acts of forgiveness of sin before his death.
Yes, Christ died for my sins as I already said, although with my willingness to believe this for it to become true and therefore done for salvation Behold. Christ provided the way for this forgiveness of sin to salvation as I already said. As the final permanent sacrifice for sin.
Even under the Law when sacrifices were done by the High Priest, of animals, the people had to believe their sins were for forgiven by this ritual to be regarded in good standing with God.
I think I've made my point and it was really not necessary if you just slowed down a bit....or maybe you do think that Christ presto forgave your sins by his death without your participation at all for your salvation.
Preaching to the choir here. Although I must note that the video suggests we must be Spirit taught, as I agree. And then only if one is truly converted with this Spirit present.SermonIndex.net Audio Sermons - Sermon Index
Founded in 2002. The mission of SermonIndex is the preservation and propagation of classical Biblical preaching and the promotion of Christ-centered revival to this generation.www.sermonindex.net
Well as you wrote and with scripture, and with these examples of a lower and higher walk I truly do understand and agree with. I have thought this way all along. Infancy, drinking spiritual milk, and immaturity for the lower walk is fine as a new believer, and maturity as in eating meat as the higher walk is also fine and scriptural in this sense.
I would not use these terms though because Epi has coined these expressions for his own purposes, to distinguish one who is a saint or the elect, or not. According to him, if you walk in the carnal lower level, and most are in this state according to him, you are not a saint. And you are even called out as being a part of the lukewarm church system, not a real spirit-filled believer who also is not in the Kingdom as he has been there, in the higher walk. He believes he and only a few others can claim to be mature and walk in the higher level - an elitist privileged gospel he preaches. His higher walk view means 'going into Christ' and thus in the Kingdom without sin. A strange new view of a mature believer in Christ that he believes is sound doctrine and the 'gospel' truth. This view is not in scripture at all.
This is but one reason for my issue and serious concern with his personal doctrine.
Now Epi will use you and capitalize and support your views, or other similar views by others as fuel for his personal doctrine. I do know what you mean by the apostate church and how the West is decedent etc. and it's real indeed. And I for one are not a part of it.
Epi though will turn this information and it be used to further promote his new gospel and further divide, and keep convincing weak vessels that his so-called lower and higher spiritual designated walks are real, the truth and scriptural. See how this works?
Yeah we may differ here as well. I believe every believer is on the journey to sainthood, only a few are called So Someone who is in Spiritual infancy is still a brother and sister in Christ, even someone like @Behold who perpetuates this spiritual infancy by denying the high calling of God in Christ.... for me the saints become a part of God's end time army while the faithful are the bride, so my ultimate conclusion of the matter is eschatologically based.... There is no elitism when the choice of who becomes a saint is of God's choosing.
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