The KJV and the modern bible versions

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ffbruce

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Oct 9, 2008
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To each his own. I will stay with the KJV
You know, I can really appreciate those sentiments, and the attitude with which you say them. There are some people - on both sides of the fence - who are downright nasty and derogatory.Myself, I prefer the more recent translations, and for quite a few reasons. But the important thing is that we read and study the Bible.Thank you!
 

ffbruce

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Oct 9, 2008
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its just easier to stick with the KJV. its the closest and most accurate translation to the original.
Actually, that is not true.There have been, literally, thousands of early manuscript fragments discovered since the KJV was translated. They help clarify some linguistic minutia they weren't even aware of when the KJV was translated. In other words, it can be reasonably argued that the newer translations are more accurate than the KJV.In addition, the KJV was not an original language translation. It was translated from the Textus Receptus, a translation written by one man - Desidrius Erasmus who was both a Catholic priest and a humanist. Erasmus wrote the Textus Receptus using only six late-date manuscripts that didn't even contain the entire New Testament.Is the KJV a bad translation? No, not at all. Is it the best translation? That would be an extremely hard case to make.Read them all. Study them all.
 

ffbruce

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Oct 9, 2008
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The new bibles not only attack the trinity, but also many other foundational truths and doctrines that we believe as christians.
No, they don't do that. Sorry.
 

cemab4y

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Jan 14, 2008
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The effort to render new, and more accurate translations of the ancient Hebrew and Greek texts, into modern 21st century English is terrific. There is no less willingness to render honest translations. If you know anything about English grammar, there is no gender-neutral pronoun for the third person singular. "He" and "She" are specific.Languages are one of my hobbies. I speak French, German, Russian, and Portuguese. No one has a problem with the Holy Scriptures being rendered into a modern version of lannguages other than English. When this is done, using authoritative source documents, that were unavailable 400 years ago, and the translations are done using modern tools like computer software, no one objects. But when the same thing is done in the English language, people go ballistic. Translation is part art, part science. Translators often use synonyms, and grammatical devices to render one language into another. example: "The Lord cares for me" is in the original Hebrew.The KJV translation committee rendered it "The Lord is my shepherd". The verb "cares" was rendered in a noun "shepherd", in order to convey the meaning more precisely. The Hebrew text reads- "When God began creating the heaven and the earth" is translated by KJV as "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth". The grammar of the Hebrew, which is a present participle, is rendered as a prepositional phrase. This is also done for clarity, and to make the Hebrew concept more understandable to an English speaker.The Dead Sea Scrolls are of unquestionable authenticity. Other various documents and manuscripts that have been discovered in the intervening 400 years, are closely scrutinized, to ascertain their reliability. Any suspect document is discovered, with a very high degree of certainty. The Textus Receptus (the first collected published edition of the New Testament in Greek) was assembled from source documents, which were believed to be authoritative in the 17th century. The translation committee did not have the modern chemical and radiologic verification tools, that are available today. The KJV source documents are more likely to be inaccurate than the source documents in use today.I do not think that all modern translations are paraphases. When I took a college course in New Testament, I was advised by the professor to use the Today's English Version, which follows the grammar and syntax of the Koine Greek with a high degree of accuracy. The New KJV, uses many of the source documents, that were unavailable to the 17th century commitee, and it has eliminated the "thee/thou" and the verbs that end in -est. No serious Bible scholar considers the modern translations to be paraphrases.I do not see which church I attend to be relevant to this discussion. I live on a mountaintop in Afghanistan. I attend services at the military chapel on this base. There are usually about 20 or so people in attendance.
 

ffbruce

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Oct 9, 2008
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I do not think that all modern translations are paraphases. When I took a college course in New Testament, I was advised by the professor to use the Today's English Version, which follows the grammar and syntax of the Koine Greek with a high degree of accuracy. The New KJV, uses many of the source documents, that were unavailable to the 17th century commitee, and it has eliminated the "thee/thou" and the verbs that end in -est. No serious Bible scholar considers the modern translations to be paraphrases.I do not see which church I attend to be relevant to this discussion. I live on a mountaintop in Afghanistan. I attend services at the military chapel on this base. There are usually about 20 or so people in attendance.
You make some great points. Thank you!I bolded your comment about translation/paraphrases because it is SO important to understand that paraphrases are NOT intended to be a transliteration. They are intended to be an easy read, and to convey essence and general meanings. People go nuts about The Message, for instance. In fact, in the church I used to pastor, I had a totally uneducated bloke forbid me to EVER use it, read it, or read from it in the pulpit. Ridiculous. Read paraphrases for enjoyment. Study translations and transliterations for accuracy.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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(ffbruce;60953)
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The new bibles not only attack the trinity, but also many other foundational truths and doctrines that we believe as christians.
No, they don't do that. Sorry.Actually they do. That's the Truth, calling Christ a liar.
 

Follower

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Oct 1, 2008
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(cemab4y;60955)
The effort to render new, and more accurate translations of the ancient Hebrew and Greek texts, into modern 21st century English is terrific. There is no less willingness to render honest translations. If you know anything about English grammar, there is no gender-neutral pronoun for the third person singular. "He" and "She" are specific.
Huh? I'm objecting to the controversial practice of rendering gender-neutral where the untranslated text is not gender-neutral. What does the absence of a 3rd-person singular in English have to do with that?
example: "The Lord cares for me" is in the original Hebrew.The KJV translation committee rendered it "The Lord is my shepherd". The verb "cares" was rendered in a noun "shepherd", in order to convey the meaning more precisely.
Huh? Considering that the KJV and modern translations both have chosen Shepherd here, I don't see what your example has to with the topic of this thread.
The Dead Sea Scrolls are of unquestionable authenticity.
Huh? Authentic? Authentically old or authentically original? If the latter, then you're unquestionably wrong.
I do not think that all modern translations are paraphases.
I wouldn't charge that all modern translations are paraphrases, but they are more of paraphrases than the KJV. I'll give you an example. The KJV speaks of Abraham's seed. The modern translations, including those supposedly guided by formal equivalence paraphrase seed to "descendants". It's not just a paraphrase, it also distorts the message.The KJV isn't free of paraphrases, but it's better.
 

tomwebster

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Dec 11, 2006
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Actually, that is not true.There have been, literally, thousands of early manuscript fragments discovered since the KJV was translated. They help clarify some linguistic minutia they weren't even aware of when the KJV was translated. In other words, it can be reasonably argued that the newer translations are more accurate than the KJV.In addition, the KJV was not an original language translation. It was translated from the Textus Receptus, a translation written by one man - Desidrius Erasmus who was both a Catholic priest and a humanist. Erasmus wrote the Textus Receptus using only six late-date manuscripts that didn't even contain the entire New Testament.Is the KJV a bad translation? No, not at all. Is it the best translation? That would be an extremely hard case to make.Read them all. Study them all.
I will stay with the KJV, and the Hebrew and Greek.
 

ffbruce

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Oct 9, 2008
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Actually they do. That's the Truth, calling Christ a liar.
You saying they do doesn't mean they do. Sorry.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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(ffbruce;60983)
(Jordan;60964)
Actually they do. That's the Truth, calling Christ a liar.
You saying they do doesn't mean they do. Sorry.Have you done enough amount of research to prove to me that they do?
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ffbruce

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Oct 9, 2008
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(Jordan;60984)
Have you done enough amount of research to prove to me that they do?
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Ummm, actually, yes.But then again, I'm not the one who has to substantiate an accusation I'm making.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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(ffbruce;60988)
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Have you done enough amount of research to prove to me that they do?
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Ummm, actually, yes.But then again, I'm not the one who has to substantiate an accusation I'm making.I have nothing to hide.
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ffbruce

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Oct 9, 2008
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I have nothing to hide.
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I don't believe I indicated that you DO have something to hide.On the other hand, you do have something to prove. You are the one who is making these accusations against all the non-KJV translations of the Bible.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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(Jordan;60990)
I have nothing to hide.
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I don't believe I indicated that you DO have something to hide.On the other hand, you do have something to prove. You are the one who is making these accusations against all the non-KJV translations of the Bible.No where on this site will I ever say that I believe KJV is the only inspired English Bible from God. That type of thinking is foolishness. Want prove? The topic is in my sig...
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ffbruce

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Oct 9, 2008
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No where on this site will I ever say that I believe KJV is the only inspired English Bible from God. That type of thinking is foolishness. Want prove? The topic is in my sig...
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So then, you're saying the newer translations are okay?
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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(ffbruce;61006)
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No where on this site will I ever say that I believe KJV is the only inspired English Bible from God. That type of thinking is foolishness. Want prove? The topic is in my sig...
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So then, you're saying the newer translations are okay?After doing much research. The answer is a firm no.
 

ffbruce

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Oct 9, 2008
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(Jordan;61008)
After doing much research. The answer is a firm no.
Ahhh... So you're into playing little cat & mouse games. Thanks, but I think I'll pass.
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Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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(ffbruce;61011)
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After doing much research. The answer is a firm no.
Ahhh... So you're into playing little cat & mouse games. Thanks, but I think I'll pass.Playing little cat and mouse games? No not at all. In fact, here is my answer... Life is not a game!
 

ffbruce

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Oct 9, 2008
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(Jordan;61015)
Playing little cat and mouse games? No not at all. In fact, here is my answer... Life is not a game!
So you're going to put all your faith in a 400-year old translation that's based on a Greek translation that was done by one man - a Catholic humanist - based on 6 manuscripts that didn't even contain the entire New Testament?And you're going to condemn as inferior later transliterations and translations that are based on earlier Greek manuscripts - literally thousands of them - that have been discovered since the translation of the KJV?Your logic is based on one fatal flaw, that flaw being the assumption that the KJV is THE correct and authoritative translation, against which all others must be compared. Another fatal flaw in the reasoning is the assumption that there are never two ways of saying the exact same thing.I'll leave it at that, because I don't think there's anything constructive that's going to come from further conversation.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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(ffbruce;61017)
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Playing little cat and mouse games? No not at all. In fact, here is my answer... Life is not a game!
So you're going to put all your faith in a 400-year old translation that's based on a Greek translation that was done by one man - a Catholic humanist - based on 6 manuscripts that didn't even contain the entire New Testament?And you're going to condemn as inferior later transliterations and translations that are based on earlier Greek manuscripts - literally thousands of them - that have been discovered since the translation of the KJV?Your logic is based on one fatal flaw, that flaw being the assumption that the KJV is THE correct and authoritative translation, against which all others must be compared. Another fatal flaw in the reasoning is the assumption that there are never two ways of saying the exact same thing.I'll leave it at that, because I don't think there's anything constructive that's going to come from further conversation.Do I just simply trust the English translation? or do I simply trust God?Now that is an assumption you have made. And that is your fatal error. KJV uses the Byzantine texts which is of Textus Receptus, which means RECEIVED by everyone whereof modern versions uses the Alexandrian Texts whereof Christ is being attacked over and over and clear, very clearly hates God. You want to read a bible about what men thinks the Word should say? or would you rather read the bible that can never tell a lie.In fact, God has not yet let me down and He will never let me down.In fact, you should yourself end this conversation, because you won't have a leg to stand on against God. It was He that giveth all Truth...and to safely say this, all corruptions of the Word came from Satan. (IE modern versions) I have done my research many times.I will say it again. Life is not a game!