There is a great deal in Scripture which is implied, and must also be deduced.
The Millennial Kingdom
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At the seventh trumpet (Rev. 11:15), which occurs during the Great Tribulation and prior to His seven bowls of wrath it states, "Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
'The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.'"
Nevertheless, the visible return of Christ is clearly portrayed at the point of Revelation chapters 19 and 20.
I have always argued that the book of Revelation is often misunderstood because people think it is in a linear, chronological order. It goes back and forth, overlaps, accumulates, and shows us different vantage points. Like a transparent sphere of events, as you turn it, you get different perspectives. We see events of the trumpets and bowls fall within the seals. As Jack Hayford said in His book, Equake, the scroll contains the orders, like a written play and the trumpets and bowls contain the actions. This is why there are a half dozen or more views in this book. You are entitled to yours.
So, in your opinion, does the seventh and last trumpet occur mid-trib or post-trib?I have always argued that the book of Revelation is often misunderstood because people think it is in a linear, chronological order. It goes back and forth, overlaps, accumulates, and shows us different vantage points. Like a transparent sphere of events, as you turn it, you get different perspectives. We see events of the trumpets and bowls fall within the seals. As Jack Hayford said in His book, Equake, the scroll contains the orders, like a written play and the trumpets and bowls contain the actions. This is why there are a half dozen or more views in this book. You are entitled to yours.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I have always argued that the book of Revelation is often misunderstood because people think it is in a linear, chronological order. It goes back and forth, overlaps, accumulates, and shows us different vantage points. Like a transparent sphere of events, as you turn it, you get different perspectives. We see events of the trumpets and bowls fall within the seals. As Jack Hayford said in His book, Equake, the scroll contains the orders, like a written play and the trumpets and bowls contain the actions. This is why there are a half dozen or more views in this book. You are entitled to yours.
The only correct view that aligns with God's written Word is that Jesus returns after... the tribulation like He said to gather His saints (Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27).
And that is when God's Word also says He will begin His literal reign with His elect on earth (Zechariah 14; Psalms 2; Revelation 11:15-18; Revelation 16:15-17; Revelation 5:10; Revelation 3:9).
Then there are many Scriptures written about that "day of the Lord" of Zechariah 14 when He returns to this earth, which shows the wicked literally subdued by Him upon the earth.
But someone who is instead busy listening to men's doctrines devised by men whom God did not 'call', those slide around everywhere except alignment with God's written Word.
"after the tribulation of those days" doesn't necessarily mean after all the tribulation. It means the tribulation that was just described.
So Jesus returns and the and every eye sees Him. This happens at the sound of the last trumpet, we are raptured, THEN THEY SEE HIM COMING IN THE CLOUDS AND MOURN. What happens next? His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives. He wars with all the nations who came against Jerusalem. So it's not over. "It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem." Zech. 12:9 *** Seek means He's on His way, just getting started!
"And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war." Rev. 19:11 *** After the rapture!
>>>"And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army." Rev. 19:19 *** There it is, after the rapture, the Beast and the kings, gather to war against Jesus in the battle of Megiddo (Armageddon)
This supports my view that the last trumpet is the seventh trumpet! What comes after this is the Seven Bowls of wrath which are released and they take some time and the final battle. Maybe it's quick, maybe it's 40 days? Much destruction is done in one day when a world wide quake levels and destroys most of the planet.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Well actually, it does... mean the end of all tribulations, simply because He linked the day of His literal return to that after the tribulation phrase. His coming in the clouds to gather His Church is the last part of that Sign. Or didn't you read the Scripture evidences I posted for that, with Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27?
When Lord Jesus returns, that's it for the wicked in this world, they are made to bow to Him right then, as He will begin His reign over them. This event is pointed to in many of the Old Testament prophets, so much so, that it's mind boggling to think a Christian Bible student wouldn't be familiar with it.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
The Millennial Kingdom
His Kingdom “will never be brought to ruin”; its accomplishments will endure forever; Jesus will eternally be honored for his role as Messianic King. Daniel 2:44
During the Thousand Year Reign, Christ’s rule toward earth involves priestly action toward obedient mankind. ( Re.5:9,10; 20:6; 21:1-3) By this means the dominion of sin and death as kings over obedient mankind, subjected to their “law,” ends; undeserved kindness and righteousness are the ruling factors. (Ro.5:14,17,21) Since sin and death are to be completely removed from earth’s inhabitants, this also brings to an end the need for Jesus’ serving as “a helper with the Father” in the sense of providing propitiation for the sins of imperfect humans. (Jo.2:1,2) That brings mankind back to the original status enjoyed when the perfect man Adam was in Eden. Adam while perfect needed no one to stand between him and God to make propitiation. So, too, at the End of Jesus’ Thousand Year Rule, earth’s inhabitants will be both in position and under responsibility to answer for their course of action before Jehovah God as the Supreme Judge, without recourse to anyone as legal intermediary, or helper. Jehovah, the Sovereign Power, thus becomes “all things to everyone.” This means that God’s purpose to “gather all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth,” will have been fully realized. 1Co.15:28; Eph.1: 9,10.
Jesus’ Millennial Rule will have fully accomplished its purpose. Earth, once a focus of rebellion, will have been restored to a full, clean, and undisputed position in the realm, or domain, of the Universal Sovereign. No subsidiary kingdom will remain between Jehovah and obedient mankind.
Following this, however, a final test is made of the integrity and devotion of all such earthly subjects. Satan is loosed from his restraint in the abyss at the end of the thousand year reign. Those yielding to his seduction do so on the same issue raised in Eden: the rightfulness of God’s sovereignty. This is seen by their attacking “the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city.” Since that issue has been judicially settled and declared closed by the Court of heaven, no prolonged rebellion is permitted in this case. Those failing to stand loyally on God’s side will not be able to appeal to Christ Jesus as a ‘propitiatory helper,’ but Jehovah God will be “all things” to them, with no appeal or mediation possible. All rebels, spirit and human, receive the divine sentence of destruction in “the second death.” Re.20: 7-15.
His Kingdom “will never be brought to ruin”; its accomplishments will endure forever; Jesus will eternally be honored for his role as Messianic King. Daniel 2:44
During the Thousand Year Reign, Christ’s rule toward earth involves priestly action toward obedient mankind. ( Re.5:9,10; 20:6; 21:1-3) By this means the dominion of sin and death as kings over obedient mankind, subjected to their “law,” ends; undeserved kindness and righteousness are the ruling factors. (Ro.5:14,17,21) Since sin and death are to be completely removed from earth’s inhabitants, this also brings to an end the need for Jesus’ serving as “a helper with the Father” in the sense of providing propitiation for the sins of imperfect humans. (Jo.2:1,2) That brings mankind back to the original status enjoyed when the perfect man Adam was in Eden. Adam while perfect needed no one to stand between him and God to make propitiation. So, too, at the End of Jesus’ Thousand Year Rule, earth’s inhabitants will be both in position and under responsibility to answer for their course of action before Jehovah God as the Supreme Judge, without recourse to anyone as legal intermediary, or helper. Jehovah, the Sovereign Power, thus becomes “all things to everyone.” This means that God’s purpose to “gather all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth,” will have been fully realized. 1Co.15:28; Eph.1: 9,10.
Jesus’ Millennial Rule will have fully accomplished its purpose. Earth, once a focus of rebellion, will have been restored to a full, clean, and undisputed position in the realm, or domain, of the Universal Sovereign. No subsidiary kingdom will remain between Jehovah and obedient mankind.
Following this, however, a final test is made of the integrity and devotion of all such earthly subjects. Satan is loosed from his restraint in the abyss at the end of the thousand year reign. Those yielding to his seduction do so on the same issue raised in Eden: the rightfulness of God’s sovereignty. This is seen by their attacking “the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city.” Since that issue has been judicially settled and declared closed by the Court of heaven, no prolonged rebellion is permitted in this case. Those failing to stand loyally on God’s side will not be able to appeal to Christ Jesus as a ‘propitiatory helper,’ but Jehovah God will be “all things” to them, with no appeal or mediation possible. All rebels, spirit and human, receive the divine sentence of destruction in “the second death.” Re.20: 7-15.
Davy
Well-Known Member
God's Word does not agree with that above. During Christ's future thousand years reign with His elect, which begins at His future return, it is written He will rule with "a rod of iron" over the nations (Psalms 2; Revelation 2:27; Revelation 12:5; Revelation 19:15). It is not going to be a happy time for the remaining wicked who will be made to bow to Him as King and Lord. Zechariah 14 reveals that those nations which refuse to come up to Jerusalem to worship Him from year to year will have no rains upon their lands, so that will not be a happy time of kindness for them.
It is a mistake to think that Christ's Salvation will involve the flesh. Adam and Eve were made flesh, but that did not mean their spirit/soul was also flesh. Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 and Matthew 10:28 revealed that our spirit/soul continues to God after death of our flesh body, our flesh going back to the earth where it came from, but our spirit/soul part going back to God Who gave it. Our real 'self' is our spirit body with soul. It is what Christ's Salvation is about, not our flesh. Thus the state Adam and Eve were in prior to their sin still does not... represent God's Salvation through His Son. It's like Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:44-53, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. God's Salvation will involve a "spiritual body", not one of flesh like we have today that can still get sick and die, feel hot and cold, etc.
Well, when Jesus returns, His elect reign with Him are given the spiritual body of His future eternal Kingdom, not subject to the "second death". The second death, which is the casting into the future "lake of fire" at the end of the thousand years, is about the unsaved nations. Those will still be able to be tempted by Satan when he is released from the pit one final time. That won't apply to Christ's elect. As a matter of fact, Revelation 20:8 forward reveals it's the "camp of the saints" at the beloved city on earth is where Satan will try to lead the unsaved nations upon to destroy it.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
You contradict Jesus who said after His Resurrection that a spirit does not have FLESH and Bones as you see that I have. Luke 24:39.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Davy says:
God's Word does not agree with that above. During Christ's future thousand years reign with His elect, which begins at His future return, it is written He will rule with "a rod of iron" over the nations (Psalms 2; Revelation 2:27; Revelation 12:5; Revelation 19:15). It is not going to be a happy time for the remaining wicked who will be made to bow to Him as King and Lord. Zechariah 14 reveals that those nations which refuse to come up to Jerusalem to worship Him from year to year will have no rains upon their lands, so that will not be a happy time of kindness for them.[/Quote\]
The appointed time for the nations(gentile times) who were to rule without interruption by God came to an end in 1914. This is when Jesus invisible return began and he started ruling as king in that Messianic Kingdom in the midst of his enemies.(Luke 21:24) Then, right on time, the woman bears her child: “And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was caught away to God and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days.” (Revelation 12:5, 6) The child is “a son, a male.” John uses this double expression, "a son, a male," to show the child’s suitableness, his competence for ruling the nations with adequate power. It also emphasizes how momentous, how joyous an occasion this birth is! It plays a key role in bringing the sacred secret of God to a finish.
Yes that expression, "iron rod," sounds familiar. Yes, Jehovah promised prophetically regarding Jesus: “You will break them with an iron scepter, as though a potter’s vessel you will dash them to pieces.” (Psalm 2:9) It was also prophesied regarding him: “The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, saying: ‘Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.’” (Psalm 110:2) Therefore, the birth seen by John in Revelations closely involves Jesus Christ. No, it is not Jesus’ being born of a virgin back before the first century of our Common Era; nor could it refer to Jesus’ being raised again to spirit life in 33 C.E., it's when Jesus begins ruling in God’s Kingdom in 1914, which is when the gentile times ended. Jesus starts ruling in the midst of his enemies after the gentile times ends. Jesus now in heaven for close to 20 centuries is enthroned as King. Revelation 12:10
God's Word does not agree with that above. During Christ's future thousand years reign with His elect, which begins at His future return, it is written He will rule with "a rod of iron" over the nations (Psalms 2; Revelation 2:27; Revelation 12:5; Revelation 19:15). It is not going to be a happy time for the remaining wicked who will be made to bow to Him as King and Lord. Zechariah 14 reveals that those nations which refuse to come up to Jerusalem to worship Him from year to year will have no rains upon their lands, so that will not be a happy time of kindness for them.[/Quote\]
The appointed time for the nations(gentile times) who were to rule without interruption by God came to an end in 1914. This is when Jesus invisible return began and he started ruling as king in that Messianic Kingdom in the midst of his enemies.(Luke 21:24) Then, right on time, the woman bears her child: “And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was caught away to God and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days.” (Revelation 12:5, 6) The child is “a son, a male.” John uses this double expression, "a son, a male," to show the child’s suitableness, his competence for ruling the nations with adequate power. It also emphasizes how momentous, how joyous an occasion this birth is! It plays a key role in bringing the sacred secret of God to a finish.
Yes that expression, "iron rod," sounds familiar. Yes, Jehovah promised prophetically regarding Jesus: “You will break them with an iron scepter, as though a potter’s vessel you will dash them to pieces.” (Psalm 2:9) It was also prophesied regarding him: “The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, saying: ‘Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.’” (Psalm 110:2) Therefore, the birth seen by John in Revelations closely involves Jesus Christ. No, it is not Jesus’ being born of a virgin back before the first century of our Common Era; nor could it refer to Jesus’ being raised again to spirit life in 33 C.E., it's when Jesus begins ruling in God’s Kingdom in 1914, which is when the gentile times ended. Jesus starts ruling in the midst of his enemies after the gentile times ends. Jesus now in heaven for close to 20 centuries is enthroned as King. Revelation 12:10
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Davy says:
It is a mistake to think that Christ's Salvation will involve the flesh. Adam and Eve were made flesh, but that did not mean their spirit/soul was also flesh. Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 and Matthew 10:28 revealed that our spirit/soul continues to God after death of our flesh body, our flesh going back to the earth where it came from, but our spirit/soul part going back to God Who gave it. Our real 'self' is our spirit body with soul. It is what Christ's Salvation is about, not our flesh. Thus the state Adam and Eve were in prior to their sin still does not... represent God's Salvation through His Son. It's like Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:44-53, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. God's Salvation will involve a "spiritual body", not one of flesh like we have today that can still get sick and die, feel hot and cold, etc.[/QUOTE\]
The scriptures don't say we have souls, the scriptures say we are souls. Genesis 2:7 says: And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. This Scripture shows that this human body created from dust became a living Soul not that he was given a living Soul. So the word Soul means the person, when the soul dies the person dies.
The scriptures also tell us the spirit in humans is the same spirit that is in animals. So just as animals die so do humans. Ecclesiasties 3: 19-21.
Matt.10:28 doesn't teach we have immortal Souls but it teaches the irreversibility of divine judgment on the unrepentant. In other words the soul dies, we don't have immortal Souls that continue to exist after we die because the person is the Soul, because as the scriptures show us the Soul is the person. Also, Bauer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament gives the meaning “eternal death” with reference to the Greek phrase in Matthew 10:28 translated “destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” Thus, being consigned to Gehenna refers to utter destruction from which no resurrection is possible. In other words the Greek word, "Gehenna," translated hell in many Bibles concerning Matthew 10:28 simply represents eternal non-existence and shouldn't be translated as Hell. Gehenna represents a condition and Hell represents a place.
As far as you saying, "Thus the state Adam and Eve were in prior to their sin still does not... represent God's Salvation through His Son." That's because Adam and Eve hadn't sinned yet, so salvation for mankind wasn't needed until after Adam and Eve sinned and that salvation was meant for Adam and Eve offspring, it wasn't meant for Adam and Eve themselves.
When reading 1 Corinthians 15:44-53, and it says, "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption." You must understand that Jesus sheep have two destinations. A small flock will get a resurrection like Jesus who when resurrected will be given immortal incorruptible bodies and will be in heaven with Jesus ruling with him as kings, priests, and judges in that heavenly messianic kingdom. They will have a "spiritual body", not one of flesh like we have today that can still get sick and die, feel hot and cold.
However the rest of Jesus sheep who are not his brothers but recognize Jesus brothers therefore recognize Jesus will be the subjects of the kingdom that Jesus and the little flock rule over from that heavenly messianic kingdom. (Matthew 25:31-46) These sheep will be living on paradise earth and eventually after the thousand year reign they will have human bodies like Adam and Eve had before they sinned. While these bodies can feel hot and cold, they will not grow old and die, they will not get sick, because at the end of the thousand year reign of Jesus, Adamic death and the grave will be done away with.
It is a mistake to think that Christ's Salvation will involve the flesh. Adam and Eve were made flesh, but that did not mean their spirit/soul was also flesh. Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 and Matthew 10:28 revealed that our spirit/soul continues to God after death of our flesh body, our flesh going back to the earth where it came from, but our spirit/soul part going back to God Who gave it. Our real 'self' is our spirit body with soul. It is what Christ's Salvation is about, not our flesh. Thus the state Adam and Eve were in prior to their sin still does not... represent God's Salvation through His Son. It's like Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:44-53, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. God's Salvation will involve a "spiritual body", not one of flesh like we have today that can still get sick and die, feel hot and cold, etc.[/QUOTE\]
The scriptures don't say we have souls, the scriptures say we are souls. Genesis 2:7 says: And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. This Scripture shows that this human body created from dust became a living Soul not that he was given a living Soul. So the word Soul means the person, when the soul dies the person dies.
The scriptures also tell us the spirit in humans is the same spirit that is in animals. So just as animals die so do humans. Ecclesiasties 3: 19-21.
Matt.10:28 doesn't teach we have immortal Souls but it teaches the irreversibility of divine judgment on the unrepentant. In other words the soul dies, we don't have immortal Souls that continue to exist after we die because the person is the Soul, because as the scriptures show us the Soul is the person. Also, Bauer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament gives the meaning “eternal death” with reference to the Greek phrase in Matthew 10:28 translated “destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” Thus, being consigned to Gehenna refers to utter destruction from which no resurrection is possible. In other words the Greek word, "Gehenna," translated hell in many Bibles concerning Matthew 10:28 simply represents eternal non-existence and shouldn't be translated as Hell. Gehenna represents a condition and Hell represents a place.
As far as you saying, "Thus the state Adam and Eve were in prior to their sin still does not... represent God's Salvation through His Son." That's because Adam and Eve hadn't sinned yet, so salvation for mankind wasn't needed until after Adam and Eve sinned and that salvation was meant for Adam and Eve offspring, it wasn't meant for Adam and Eve themselves.
When reading 1 Corinthians 15:44-53, and it says, "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption." You must understand that Jesus sheep have two destinations. A small flock will get a resurrection like Jesus who when resurrected will be given immortal incorruptible bodies and will be in heaven with Jesus ruling with him as kings, priests, and judges in that heavenly messianic kingdom. They will have a "spiritual body", not one of flesh like we have today that can still get sick and die, feel hot and cold.
However the rest of Jesus sheep who are not his brothers but recognize Jesus brothers therefore recognize Jesus will be the subjects of the kingdom that Jesus and the little flock rule over from that heavenly messianic kingdom. (Matthew 25:31-46) These sheep will be living on paradise earth and eventually after the thousand year reign they will have human bodies like Adam and Eve had before they sinned. While these bodies can feel hot and cold, they will not grow old and die, they will not get sick, because at the end of the thousand year reign of Jesus, Adamic death and the grave will be done away with.
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Davy
Well-Known Member
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I disagree, not wild speculations. In the past century we have had two major world wars.
When making a comparison of the two world wars, the New York Times Magazine of August 1, 1954, came to this conclusion: “The first war marked a far greater change in history. It closed a long era of general peace and began a new age of violence in which the second war is simply an episode. Since 1914 the world has had a new character: a character of international anarchy. . . . Thus the first World War marks a turning point in modern history.”
Such terms as “a turning point in modern history,” an “age of violence,” “an age of war and revolution” and “a volcanic epoch,” used by leading authorities, ought to jar scoffers into some sensible thinking! For, of a certainty, things are not continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning. The sign of the “last days” is visible evidence. Never before in history, prior to 1914, have all these things occurred at once upon one generation.
Scriptural proof of the sign:
1. World wars Matt. 24:7
2. Widespread food shortages Matt. 24:7
3. Unusual number of earthquakes Matt. 24:7
4. Sore pestilence and disease Luke 21:11
5. Persecution of Christians Luke 21:12-15
6. Many forsaking Christianity Matt. 24:12, 13
7. Formation of the League of
Nations and United Nations Rev. 13:14, 15; 17:11
8. Nations perplexed Luke 21:25
9. Increased lawlessness Matt. 24:12
10. Sleepy condition of the world
despite the sign 1 Thess. 5:2, 6
11. Moral breakdown in public and
private life 2 Tim. 3:1-4
12. Widespread juvenile delinquency 2 Tim. 3:2
13. People overly engaging in
everyday affairs of life Matt. 24:37-39
14. World-wide preaching of the
established kingdom as good news. Matt. 24:14
Before the “time of the end” closes the people must be warned. So Jesus foretold: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for the purpose of a witness to all the nations, and then the accomplished end will come.” To people who are heartsick because of this present wicked world, the news of God’s established kingdom and the “time of the end” is indeed good. Jehovah’s witnesses have been diligent to bring this good news to peoples of all the earth. When the preaching work is finished the “accomplished end” comes. This does not mean that when the “time of the end” closes the mass of mankind will have decided for God’s kingdom. No, the mass will stick with the old world, even though the warning witness has been given earth-wide. Thus multitudes will be abandoned to their self-chosen destiny of destruction. Said Jesus: “I tell you, In that night two men will be in one bed; the one will be taken along, but the other will be abandoned. There will be two women grinding at the same mill; the one will be taken along, but the other will be abandoned.” To be taken into Jehovah’s protection at Armageddon depends not on any family or friendship ties; it depends on a clear-cut decision for God’s new world. Those who choose to go along with the old world will, as Jesus showed, be abandoned to destruction, just as the preflood people were left to their watery death when “the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water.”—Matt. 24:14; Luke 17:34, 35; 2 Pet. 3:6, .
Davy
Well-Known Member
I don't pay attention to socialist-establishment publications like The New York Times. And my Lord Jesus is not... yet reigning here over the earth and all nations. He did not... return in 1914, that is an idea from 'men', deceived men. His "thousand years" reign of Rev.20 will begin with His future 'literal' return to this earth, as written... in Zechariah 14.
The actual Matthew 24 verse where Jesus mentioned about wars is in verse 6, and its main Message is that as long as we hear of wars and rumors of wars, then the end is not yet.
Matt 24:6
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
KJV
So right off the bat, those you listen to have you looking at the WRONG SIGN regarding wars. Even Apostle Paul showed this in 1 Thess.5 when he said when 'they' shall say, "Peace and safety", then "sudden destruction" will come upon them, that coming from the Old Testament prophets about the last day of this world.
Poverty with the poorer nations has always been a problem, even in ancient times. But for the end of this world, God's Word shows the type of famine will be for hearing The Word of God...
Amos 8:11-12
11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
KJV
What do you think Mogadishu was about when U.S. troops under U.N. authority were sent there in the 1990's? All kinds of food support was sent them. It was those who trying to steal the food that caused many of the population to starve, not a famine from natural causes. But God's Word shows when all wars have ended for the short time at the end of this world when the Antichrist appears, it will be a time of world peace and a horn of plenty for everyone (Daniel 8:25; 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4). So once again, those you heed are telling you to watch the wrong kind of Sign on famine too.
Yes, earthquakes have increased. The data over the last several decades shows that. It's harder to say pestilences and disease has increased, as millions have died in the past from simple diseases that cures have been long since found. So one can go in an infinite circle trying to argue this point.
The Sign Jesus gave about that though is with being delivered up to give a Testimony for Him by The Holy Spirit just prior to the "day of the Lord". The reason why Peter quoted Joel 2 about the cloven tongue on Pentecost is because Acts 2 was only an 'example'. The 'main' time for it manifesting is at the end during the time of God's two witnesses. That is when many of God's elect will be delivered up for refusing to bow to the Antichrist's "image of the beast" of Rev.13, a specific idol image that has NEVER been setup yet here on earth, and only is for the very end of this world just prior to Christs 2nd coming to end the reign of the wicked.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-9 is where Apostle Paul made it plain about many who fall away to that coming "man of sin" who will play Messiah in Jerusalem in a rebuilt temple at the end of this world. That coming Antichrist working great signs and wonders and proclaiming to be God will be why... those will fall away in that future time. That is what Paul was specifically referring to, and it REQUIRES that Antichrist being revealed here on earth in Jerusalem sitting in a rebuilt Jewish temple doing all that! That's Paul subject there.
The purpose of the league of nations is for creating a "one world government". That plan is actually very... ancient. Each one of the old ancient pagan empires had that plan to conquer the whole world and all peoples. The beast kingdom concept is even covered first in the Book of Daniel during the times of ancient Babylon. And before that the concept of the tower of Babel. So that movement is nothing new; it's been an on-going working by Satan and the children of darkness since ancient times. Per Revelation 13, God showed that beast kingdom will form up at the very end of this world when Satan arrives here on earth. It won't be called the United Nations anymore then. It will be called his kingdom.
Iniquity will increase, yes, and it is. And yes anxiety among the nations.
It's about deception, which is why the deceived will be saying, "Peace and safety" at the end when the false-Messiah shows up first. The coming great tribulation will not be a time of all out war. All wars will have stopped when false Messiah comes to power in Jerusalem. He will cause craft to prosper, and use peace to destroy (through deception in false worship to him as Messiah). Chicken in every pot kind of time, not war. That is why they will be saying peace and safety at the end. That... is the Sign Paul was giving in 1 Thess.5.
Really, what you've done in this last post is do a rant dance, and didn't really address the Scripture subject I've addressed in my previous posts. That means you are not... listening, but just trying to talk over my head.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Actually I believe you're the one doing the dancing because I believe that just as the people in Noah's time payed no attention to Noah you pay no attention of the historical time we're living in. We've had two World wars, the first world war started 106 years ago and lasted for about four years and this first World War was seven times greater than all the 901 major wars that spanned 2400 years of mankinds past and the second World War was even greater than the first World War, of course you more likely think this to be insignificant. You may want to stay in ignorance concerning these two major wars and the violent attitude of humanity since these wars you also probably want to stay in ignorance of the fact that since 1914 more and more people are being entertained by demonism, witchery, False God's and etc and maybe like so many in the world you think that being entertained with such ideas that God hates is insignificant, but more and more people are thinking such subjects as demons, witches, False God's are cool. They believe such things as demons witches and False God's shouldn't be hated. We can see that one way, by simply turning on the TV but of course you may think that's insignificant too. When it comes to hunger I wasn't saying that it's wrong to try to feed the hungry what is so wrong is the United Nations has put itself in a Holy place where doesn't belong, because the religious organizations and their leaders have put their faith in an human organization, the United Nations, when their faith should be with the true God and his kingdom, but the nations, meaning humanity praises the United Nations for the things that the United Nations says it's going to accomplish, wipe out war, hunger, sickness/illnesses, homelessness, things that only Gods kingdom can do. So because the United Nations claim this is the United Nations goals which only God's kingdom can do the United Nations has put itself in a Holy place therefore the United Nations is an unholy organization for even mentioning they will do what only God's kingdom can do, but maybe this is insignificant to you too. Most of all Jesus Christ said regarding the composite sign of the last days, this preaching of the good news of the kingdom would be going on, the only ones I know preaching the Messianic kingdom that Jesus Christ is king of, is Jehovah's Witnesses, that too you may think to be insignificant. Just because you and others think that what I post to be insignificant, doesn't mean I think it's insignificant. I think that you're sleeping and not paying attention to the historical time you're living in.
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Davy
Well-Known Member
And yet again, and again, you keep making false accusations against me, when it is you that actually does not understand the endtimes per Scripture. All you've suggested is pretty much what one can get out of a Hal Lindsey book.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Don't give me that hypocrital nonsense, if you don't like that I'm going to disagree with you, then don't reply to my posts. If I disagree with you and honestly believe you to be adding to scripture I'm going to say so. I know many don't agree with me, which includes you and you have made accusations about me too. People have the right to disagree if they honestly disagree with someone and if they honestly believe someone to be adding to scripture by the way they're interpreting them, that's our right as human beings.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I'm not a hypocrite. I showed you valid Scripture examples, but you keep making stuff up from men's traditions. They have brainwashed you well, especially all the Hal Lindsey hype you have about the endtimes. What you do with Scripture like Matthew 24:6-7 is the same as what they do with it, i.e., completely bypass the last phrase Jesus gave in conjunction with His warning about wars...
Matt 24:6-7
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
KJV
What's the opposite of those 'wars and rumours of wars'? It's peace. So according to Lord Jesus, the end of this world is going to be a time of world peace, not all out war like the Hal Lindsey books and Left-Behind fake books. That ends all the 'scare' tactics you've used that comes from men's traditions. Jesus told us what the times of earthquakes, famines, and wars represents, i.e., a time of sorrows. But that is prior to the time of "great tribulation" He later forewarns of in Matthew 24, which will actually be a time when those previous sorrows will have stopped, and the earth will be at peace by the coming pseudo-Christ.
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