The Mystery of Iniquity

[Enoch111]

You and Dave are quite the pair. Your view is not according to understanding.

And of course Episkopos is the FINAL GURU who has appeared on earth to set other Christians straight. However, your view is according to baloney and blarney.

 

[Episkopos]

And of course Episkopos is the FINAL GURU who has appeared on earth to set other Christians straight. However, your view is according to baloney and blarney.

LOL...so you're saying you don't understand...but in your own carnal way of putting things.

How can a person think they know what grace is...that never uses it in communication???

You really don't have a handle on what prompts your own behaviour.

 

[Dave L]

You are always taking away from the word...so it appears that way to you. I am INCLUDING the whole counsel of God...always.

I'm quoting the word "soon". You are making something else out of it.

 

[Episkopos]

I'm quoting the word "soon". You are making something else out of it.

I'm actually not "making" anything as a human. But, your whole scheme is based on this. So who is really "making" something of it?

 

[Dave L]

I'm actually not "making" anything as a human. But, your whole scheme is based on this. So who is really "making" something of it?

Grab a dictionary, preferably Greek and see what the word "soon" means.

 

[Nancy]

I have posted this in a forum for the unorthodox doctrines...since I believe what orthodox has become has shifted 180 degrees from what it once was.And this over a great period of time...so slowly that few have even noticed it.

With an open mind....good reading comprehension, and the help of God's Spirit...we can maybe move forward together into some kind of greater understanding.....of where the church is at presently.

2 Thess. 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The power of delusion has always been at work. God has limited it's power so as to give His people a chance to learn and grow...and get a good testimony.

But God is righteous....and He must let the full force of the devil's delusion test His people at some point.

Just as a person who follows Christ will get more of the testing needed for a full maturity...as time goes on....so also historically the church must be tested into a bid for a full maturity...or a full failure.

I believe we have reached that point. Paul warned us of this nearly 2,000 years ago.

What is iniquity? It is a mixture of what is holy...with what is worldly and carnal...that twits the will of God into something that serves the will of the devil.

The devil wants a say in the affairs of God...and he promotes his say through unsuspecting people.

Why is it a mystery? Because people don't realize how easily they are fooled by the crafty one. The devil deceives the whole world....even the church to a large degree. He has his fingers everywhere.

People can see the extremes...but are normally blind to their own deceptions.

When we realize how God wants His church to be...and see what it has become...we can begin to see the problem.

The devil divides and conquers. Just look at all the divisions. Just look at all the mixture.

Very interesting thread Epi.
"Why is it a mystery? Because people don't realize how easily they are fooled by the crafty one. The devil deceives the whole world....even the church to a large degree. He has his fingers everywhere." Oh how true is this! This is also rampant in the Church today. I had mentioned in another thread the other day about how Satan has so insinuated himself into our everyday lives, and has people saying things like "well, I guess all we can do now is pray" or, "God helps those who help themselves", etc. Such subtle lies. One of my mainstay prayers is for God to give me the grace to have the humility to change any erroneous views I might hold when faced with scripture showing me different. Actually, I would like to start a thread on "humility", lol...

 

[Nancy]

I have posted this in a forum for the unorthodox doctrines...since I believe what orthodox has become has shifted 180 degrees from what it once was.And this over a great period of time...so slowly that few have even noticed it.

With an open mind....good reading comprehension, and the help of God's Spirit...we can maybe move forward together into some kind of greater understanding.....of where the church is at presently.

2 Thess. 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The power of delusion has always been at work. God has limited it's power so as to give His people a chance to learn and grow...and get a good testimony.

But God is righteous....and He must let the full force of the devil's delusion test His people at some point.

Just as a person who follows Christ will get more of the testing needed for a full maturity...as time goes on....so also historically the church must be tested into a bid for a full maturity...or a full failure.

I believe we have reached that point. Paul warned us of this nearly 2,000 years ago.

What is iniquity? It is a mixture of what is holy...with what is worldly and carnal...that twits the will of God into something that serves the will of the devil.

The devil wants a say in the affairs of God...and he promotes his say through unsuspecting people.

Why is it a mystery? Because people don't realize how easily they are fooled by the crafty one. The devil deceives the whole world....even the church to a large degree. He has his fingers everywhere.

People can see the extremes...but are normally blind to their own deceptions.

When we realize how God wants His church to be...and see what it has become...we can begin to see the problem.

The devil divides and conquers. Just look at all the divisions. Just look at all the mixture.

"The devil divides and conquers. Just look at all the divisions."
Yeah, kinda like politics

 

[Episkopos]

Grab a dictionary, preferably Greek and see what the word "soon" means.

You are deriving biblical truth from non-biblical sources? You don't allow others to do what you permit yourself. Let's see...who was accused of doing that...in the bible?

 

[Dave L]

You are deriving biblical truth from non-biblical sources? You don't allow others to do what you permit yourself. Let's see...who was accused of doing that...in the bible?

Examples?

 

[Episkopos]

Examples?

OK You said I was falling into grievous error by translating Greek words (like the biblical arete) from the bible in their cultural context AT THAT TIME IN HISTORY but you allow the bible to be understood by an English dictionary in our much more modern context (as if the bible is fully understood by contemporary word aficionados).

So by your own measure you are doing a lot worse than I am...without any reference to demonic inspiration on your part.

Can you say...know yourself?

 

[Dave L]

OK You said I was falling into grievous error by translating Greek words (like the biblical arete) from the bible in their cultural context AT THAT TIME IN HISTORY but you allow the bible to be understood by an English dictionary in our much more modern context (as if the bible is fully understood by contemporary word aficionados).

So by your own measure you are doing a lot worse than I am...without any reference to demonic inspiration on your part.

Can you say...know yourself?

I think I showed you a better translation for that word.

 

[Episkopos]

I think I showed you a better translation for that word.

And I showed you a better way to understand it...from the perspective of people at that time. You are influenced by contemporary thinking and religious dogmatism. It blinds you to any possible understanding that goes deeper than the fast food treatment of contemporary attention spans as revealed in the "information" age.

And you call the good evil.

 

[Dave L]

And I showed you a better way to understand it...from the perspective of people at that time. You are influenced by contemporary thinking and religious dogmatism. It blinds you to any possible understanding that goes deeper than the fast food treatment of contemporary attention spans as revealed in the "information" age.

And you call the good evil.

I showed you a more precise definition from better resources.

 

[Episkopos]

I showed you a more precise definition from better resources.

The best resources are ones that have no conflict of interest. So then YOUR better resources would be those that line up with what you already believe.

A dogmatic person is not someone to be trusted to do any kind of research. Proving their point is all they seek for.

I trust the truth enough to dig deeper into the meaning to be conveyed through the bible. The more you seek...the more you find. If you sow sparingly you will also reap sparingly. Hence your present dilemma.

 

[Dave L]

The best resources are ones that have no conflict of interest. So then YOUR better resources would be those that line up with what you already believe.

A dogmatic person is not someone to be trusted to do any kind of research. Proving their point is all they seek for.

I trust the truth enough to dig deeper into the meaning to be conveyed through the bible. The more you seek...the more you find. If you sow sparingly you will also reap sparingly. Hence your present dilemma.

Aren't you being a bit dogmatic about this?

 

[Episkopos]

Aren't you being a bit dogmatic about this?

Not at all. I am responding to your criticism of my in depth research that doesn't line up with your indoctrination. When you hear something you haven't heard put in that particular way in your previous indoctrination...you think it's evil.

But this is not like Christ in the slightest way.

When the Centurion said to Jesus...don't come under my roof since all you have to do is say the word and my servant will be healed.

Jesus...rather than scolding the centurion for not doing things the regular way...said that his faith was greater. Yet the roman was only relating something common in the Roman army...authority and discipline. The fact that he was able to relate that to spiritual things drew praise from Jesus.

Now the Roman army prized 2 things above all...disciplina and virtas. The Centurion displayed an understanding of disciplina.

But when I state the importance of virtas (virtue) as written by Peter....which to any Roman or Greek meant fighting spirit and manly courage...you think it evil.

If you only saw how backwards your thinking was.

It takes real faith to see spiritual parallels. It takes conditioning and brainwashing to oppose that which inspires.

We are called to be warriors in the Spirit. David said he could break a bow of bronze by the strength given to him by God. We are to be MORE than conquerors. But you see any reference that isn't religious sounding as dangerous.

Can you say...unbelievable?

 

[Dave L]

Not at all. I am responding to your criticism of my in depth research that doesn't line up with your indoctrination. When you hear something you haven't heard put in that particular way in your previous indoctrination...you think it's evil.

But this is not like Christ in the slightest way.

When the Centurion said to Jesus...don't come under my roof since all you have to do is say the word and my servant will be healed.

Jesus...rather than scolding the centurion for not doing things the regular way...said that his faith was greater. Yet the roman was only relating something common in the Roman army...authority and discipline. The fact that he was able to relate that to spiritual things drew praise from Jesus.

Now the Roman army prized 2 things above all...disciplina and virtas. The Centurion displayed an understanding of disciplina.

But when I state the importance of virtas (virtue) as written by Peter....which to any Roman or Greek meant fighting spirit and manly courage...you think it evil.

If you only saw how backwards your thinking was.

It takes real faith to see spiritual parallels. It takes conditioning and brainwashing to oppose that which inspires.

I know dogmatism when I see it.

 

[Episkopos]

I know dogmatism when I see it.

LOL You see nothing at all. Look in the mirror and know what religious indoctrination looks like. A caricature of what you think you know.

 

[Dave L]

LOL You see nothing at all. Look in the mirror and know what religious indoctrination looks like.

This is nasty and judgmental. If you only have insults to hurl, I will begin ignoring you.

 

[Episkopos]

A car has both a gas pedal and a brake pedal. One without the other is disfunctional.

The Roman army prized disciplina (the brake pedal) AND virtas (virtue...the gas pedal).

I am trying to convey here an attitude of faith that Jesus praised in the centurion who understood these things very well.

So then disciplina held the army back...like a brake.

But virtas spurred it forward....like a gas pedal.

A good general saw the need of both and looked for a balance between the 2.

Any good driver of a car also knows when to give it gas and when to brake.

Peter said to add virtue (virtas)...to our faith. This is the courage to go forward without fear. This is the zeal to win the world for Christ.

So what is the brake to this zeal? Self-control and ultimately love. Love will stop us from going too far. Love is the cohesive factor in the army of God whereas in the Roman army it was discipline.

But discipline by itself never won any battles. Our love for God and others should give us virtue...since an open rebuke is better than secret love.

But of course love is greater than discipline.

Once the world is conquered for Christ...there will be only love to live by.