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The Mystery of Iniquity

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Episkopos, Sep 30, 2018.

  1. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    I have posted this in a forum for the unorthodox doctrines...since I believe what orthodox has become has shifted 180 degrees from what it once was.And this over a great period of time...so slowly that few have even noticed it.

    With an open mind....good reading comprehension, and the help of God's Spirit...we can maybe move forward together into some kind of greater understanding.....of where the church is at presently.

    2 Thess. 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

    The power of delusion has always been at work. God has limited it's power so as to give His people a chance to learn and grow...and get a good testimony.

    But God is righteous....and He must let the full force of the devil's delusion test His people at some point.

    Just as a person who follows Christ will get more of the testing needed for a full maturity...as time goes on....so also historically the church must be tested into a bid for a full maturity...or a full failure.

    I believe we have reached that point. Paul warned us of this nearly 2,000 years ago.

    What is iniquity? It is a mixture of what is holy...with what is worldly and carnal...that twits the will of God into something that serves the will of the devil.

    The devil wants a say in the affairs of God...and he promotes his say through unsuspecting people.

    Why is it a mystery? Because people don't realize how easily they are fooled by the crafty one. The devil deceives the whole world....even the church to a large degree. He has his fingers everywhere.

    People can see the extremes...but are normally blind to their own deceptions.

    When we realize how God wants His church to be...and see what it has become...we can begin to see the problem.

    The devil divides and conquers. Just look at all the divisions. Just look at all the mixture.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
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  2. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Failure in this life is not what it seems. A good business model stresses an early failure. (remember how the people of this workd are WISER in their own ways than God's people are in theirs)

    Why desire an early failure?

    Well...to not invest good money after bad. IOW...the more time we waste on a bad business model...the less money we will make in the good one. (I'm speaking as someone who thinks financial gain is important)

    So then failure is good...if it happens quickly. The quicker the better. Then, lesson learned, we can devote more time to what is the right way of doing things.


    So it is with spiritual progress.

    But believers don't usually understand this. Once embarked on a path...these will usually cling to it for their very lives (as if salvation depended on it).

    So then the churches are normally stuck....so much so that permanent divisions are instituted...called denominations. We this cycle both on the individual level...AND the corporate level (congregational).

    That this is a recipe for a permanent failure is lost on most people...especially church leaders.

    This becomes an open door for the devil to walk through. He causes partisan doctrines to be championed that divide people by how they came to know God. Did God call you a certain way? Good. But He calls others in an equally genuine way...just not one we may presently understand. There is no point dividing over that.

    So rather than growing in grace and the knowledge of God...people take a defensive stance on how they believe God works. (not realizing that God does many kinds of works.)

    So then ALL division within the body of Christ is the place of the devil's throne in this world.

    That is why we are to reject a divisive person after a few warnings. A little leaven leavens the whole batch.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
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  3. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    GINOLJC, you're on the right track.

    we have an example of this same iniquity in the OT, the base of the iniquity that's now and is coming.

    before the chosen people of God came, or may I say, inherited the promise land. it was the "iniquity" of the Amorites that was not yet full, supportive scripture,

    Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

    today, as some of the body of Christ that is in the world is being influence by this same iniquity. this iniquity is a powerful force, because the Lord is cutting these latter days short, to prevent the saint from falling into this iniquity, supportive scripture,
    Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    in short it's Law (man) vs Spirit (God). Freedom vs slavery

    the first mystery to understand is who are the Amorites?
    the Babylonians are from the Amorites and the Amorites came from Ammon, that was produce from the insectious relationship of Lot and his younger daughter who gave birth to Benammi.
    Gen 19:37 And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
    Gen 19:38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

    this is a good topic to pursue, because if the mystery of the iniquity of the Amorites is connected to Babylon, then Rev 17:5 is needed to be examine in conjunction with 2 Thess. 2:7. listen," And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH". and God warned us to come out of her.

    notice how Revelation 17:5 separate "MYSTERY" and BABYLON THE GREAT with the comma that indicate the "MYSTERY" is BABYLON THE GREAT.

    to make this an interesting topic, we might need to go back an examine why Abram now Abraham was told to leave Ur in the first place and why he took his nephew Lot with him, and why the other didn't go. because our brother Stephen when speaking to the council, Acts chapter 6 & 7, he begain with Abraham, our father of "FAITH".

    there's a lot of interesting history and knowledge in these scriptures concering Abraham to be examine. and it might give us some light on this "mystery of iniquity".
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  4. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    The mystery of iniquity is closely related to the lack of real spiritual growth in the church over many years. Once the depth of the truth has been successfully suppressed for a long while....even the idea of sound doctrine seems strange.

    Iniquity is mixing spiritual things with carnal things. It soils holiness.

    The mystery part is the unknown character of the manipulation of the devil's perversion of the truth. He works the iniquity into the mainstream...so that it sounds perfectly normal and reasonable. This has indeed taken place.

    Now the truth seems too fantastical to be believed. The standard of Christ (in truth) seems unobtainable.

    So then a down grade in faith has also rendered the truth seemingly unreasonable. We go from the faith OF Christ to religious beliefs and opinions. And very few are the wiser for it.
     
  5. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    This is an interesting angle to pursue. Why was Abraham sent away from Ur? Does it realte to God's call for His people to come out of Babylon?

    And what is Babylon (Babel)? It is when men come together religiously to make a name for themselves.

    So then it is the denominations...called together by men under a name OTHER THAN Christ.
     
  6. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    thanks for the response,
    true, that goes right back to the tree of Life and the tree of DEATH, (good and Evil).
     
  7. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    ...which is an alternative to the life giving truth. The very fact that this is an easy option guarantees that many will be led astray in the mystery of what is evil in God's sight. It appeals to the carnal nature of men.

    The devil seems also to be able to short-circuit many believers who would normally grow in truth and grace in an experience of LIFE. But an easy option will spoil them away from holiness and a firm and solid growth in the truth.

    They say a lie circles the world twice before the truth even gets it's shoes on.
     
  8. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    the freedom of Life in Christ vs the Slavery of Death in sin.

    Prov 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

    and the POWER of Choice is in the Tongue, Life and death is in the power of the tongue. Prov 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

    not the tongue itself but the power of it ... "Words".
     
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  9. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    I been reading some of your post in Garden of Eden, I was very Enlighten, I understand your line of view. it's a good one.

    be blessed.
     
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  10. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Amen. So then iniquity is the flesh and it's power posing or acting like the Spirit...or instead of the Spirit. The natural man is an actor...doing what he thinks he needs to do in order to survive. Unless that man becomes a living sacrifice by the power of the cross...the flesh will try to masquerade as a "Christian." When enough people do this...you get a denominational movement. And since this has no power...other people will break away and do the same...albeit with a slight difference in deceitful words...and the process of disintegration continues.
     
  11. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    true, iniquity is the manifestation of SIN, .... in the flesh.
    adultery is the sin "spiritually", NOT seen. but when the two parties get into bed for the act, then it's brought forth and seen. that's when one "knows"/sees the sin. this also bring me back to the garden, "the eyes of them both was open". other words to know.

    for the rest of your question, before I answer, I need to examing this a bit futher. but what you said is food/fruit ... (smile) for thought.

    but you just brought something to my attention for me to persue in my studies. thanks.
     
  12. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the chat...peace and blessings to you. :)
     
  13. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    this is getting to be great topic.

    Let me put it this way, sin was condemn in the flesh, scripture, Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh”. so true the flesh is the actor of the sin. the next verse, Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit”.

    So I agree with your assessment so far.

    And for the rest, I do agree in theory, scripture, Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. “Let” is a condition, to agree or not.

    Now one other thing you brought up that is good, “When enough people do this...you get a denominational movement”. this is what happen at the tower of babel, and the scattering of the people.... it's spiritual wickedness we wrestle with. Was this the reason why God appeared to Abram in Ur, to come out from among his own kin, because the Iniquity of the Amorites was to come. Just as God is calling us out of MYSTERY, BABYLON today. this is a mystery, because Lot was the father of the Amorites, the Babylonians.

    Episkopos, watch this video I came across a many of years ago. but ascertain the contents very closley.

    then we can clearly understand your concept of a denominational movement, especially in the control of LAW, (slavery) as in what Revelation says about, buying and selling.

    Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
    Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
    Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    Like I said, you're on the right track

    here is the link to the video.

    be blessed.
     
  14. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Good video. It describes the rise of Mammon...whereby all things can be bought and sold (including birthrights). Some very good points.

    Have you ever read Jacques Ellul? He gets in depth into how society usurped the ways of God and how the evil powers hide themselves in our way of life.
     
  15. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    I'll google him
     
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Mystery of Iniquity. Phrase used by the apostle Paul to describe a lawless power or force that threatened the world of his day. Better translated “mystery of lawlessness,” the expression is found only in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 and must be considered in the light of its context.
    Evidently, some members of the church at Thessalonica were convinced that Christ had already returned (2:1, 2). In order to counter this belief Paul describes some of the events that must occur before the return of Christ. These events center around the coming of “the man of lawlessness,” an evil figure who takes his seat in the temple of Jerusalem and proclaims himself to be God (vv 3, 4). Although the man of lawlessness is presently being restrained, the evil that he will perpetrate is already at work (v 6). Paul calls this evil “the mystery of lawlessness.”
    The term “mystery” is used in Paul’s letters to describe either something that has been hidden but is now revealed (Rom 16:25; Eph 3:9; 6:19; Col 1:26) or something too complex for human understanding (1 Cor 13:2; Col 2:2; 4:3). Thus the expression points to the fact that the future work of the lawless one is already a present reality that goes unappreciated by those who naively assume that Christ has returned.
    The identity of the man of lawlessness, the restrainer, and the content of the mystery of iniquity have been subject to much debate.


    Elwell, W. A., & Beitzel, B. J. (1988). Mystery of Iniquity. In Baker encyclopedia of the Bible (Vol. 2, p. 1514). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House.
     
  17. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    His books..."the Subversion of Christianity" and "the Presence of the Kingdom"...are classics. I think all spiritual believers should read these.

    He follows up his "presence" book..with "the FALSE presence of the kingdom."

    Very deep stuff...and very much in keeping with the OP.

    Some people can't understand Ellul's writings. They are too deep for some. But if you understand spiritual things...they are easy.

    He does have some very hard to understand books. But his approach to Christianity is eye opening. I started reading him in the early 80's. It really helped me to understand what is wrong with the church.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  18. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    thanks.
     
  19. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    1 Cor. 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

    9 But as it is written:

    “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
    Nor have entered into the heart of man
    The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

    10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
     
  20. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Are we making more out of the passage than what it warrants?
     
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