The Mystery
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Godssrvr
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We are justified by faith alone. If you add ....."we are to live to serve God" as an ingredient of justification, you add works. I think much of the confusion can be cleared up by understanding........
"that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6). Then we can discern that "soul man" is speaking of things that pertain to the "new man in Christ", which we must become before we can possibly "live to serve God".
Take a look at this and see the truth !
http://www.rightlydividing.org/secondarypages/12REASONSFORETERNALSECURITY.htm
http://www.rightlydividing.org/secondarypages/12REASONSFORETERNALSECURITY.htm
There are many ways I could reply to you, I 'll make one simple reply.
Jesus commanded us that if we Love him we will obey him. That obedience is what I and every verse that the NT refers to works is referring to.
Ok the new birth; until Christ is the center of all the believer is and does, the believer remains the focus of all the believer is and does, at least for that individual believer. Christ is the only life of the believer, the Christian has no other life.
Paul talks about having a revelation of the indwelling Christ, Gal. 1:15-16. It is imperative for the believer to accept the same revelation as Paul. It exsists for all believers, most do not know that it exists and as far as receiving a revelation of the indwelling Christ, that is in the Father's timing.
All revelation is for the believer, but the revelation of Jesus Christ in the believer is the most important revelation to have, it opens all scripture and allows them to see the Father's plan before the foundation of the world.
Paul talks about having a revelation of the indwelling Christ, Gal. 1:15-16. It is imperative for the believer to accept the same revelation as Paul. It exsists for all believers, most do not know that it exists and as far as receiving a revelation of the indwelling Christ, that is in the Father's timing.
All revelation is for the believer, but the revelation of Jesus Christ in the believer is the most important revelation to have, it opens all scripture and allows them to see the Father's plan before the foundation of the world.
Godssrvr
Active Member
Any replies given that don't align with the truth of scripture as it pertains to receiving "justification of life" are worthless opinions. Read the scripture! It's only based on His obedience that we have the opportunity to be justified through faith in Him. If you can read these passages and still trust in your "obedience" to justify yourself before God, be my guest. I will always trust the Word of God over the opinion of any man.
Romans 5:1-2
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this ***grace*** wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5:7-9
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Romans 5:18-19
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
So Jesus never said that did he try reading
John 14:15,
If you love me, keep my commands.
And 21.
Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."
What is Jesus's command, John 15:12. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
No where have I said or implied that we are saved by our obedience to Jesus's commands.
I have merely gently pointed out that Christianity is not easy believism. but involves hard work.
Godssrvr
Active Member
Okay, I agree if you are speaking of sanctification, but not justification. Salvation is free, but service requires sacrifice on our part.
no, no, no - sacrifice would be works - the really good new has not been properly grasped viz that we are saved in spite of ourselves - imho it seems we cannot even refuse to be saved - freewill would also like sacrifice be a work on our part - twinc
bbyrd009
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Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. New Living Translation Dear children, don't let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. English Standard VersionLittle ...
bbyrd009
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Godssrvr
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We are "freely justified" by His grace (Romans 3:24). What I said was "service" requires sacrifice, not justification.
The only command we have for salvation is to trust the gospel of Christ. Isaiah 64:6 says we have no righteousness, but God demands perfection, which is only found through faith in Christ Jesus.
Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Romans 3:21-22
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 4:4-6
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
bbyrd009
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pick up your stake and follow Me; anyone who can't is not worthy
don't be deceived, little children
count the cost
yes, and you can understand this differently also wadr; iow i do not disagree with you, but that is not the whole story either
faith without works is dead
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Godssrvr
Active Member
Please recognize the context of the scripture you're quoting. If you do you will see it is about discipleship (service), not salvation. Look at verse 41 and 42. Is salvation a free gift, or a reward for service done?
Matthew 10:38-42
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
Scripture cannot contradict scripture! James 2 is teaching believers to have productive faith, not for salvation, they're already saved! It's so their works can be productive and witnessed by others. James 2 couldn't be about justification of life before God because it would contradict Romans 11:6, and many other passages of scripture.
Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
bbyrd009
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imo most of the confusion and disagreement is actually about the definition of "saved, salvation" here, and i think once it is recognized that all are forgiven, the concept of saved actually becomes intrinsic to served; what do you think? I've been going around with @H. Richard et al, @mjrhealth, on this for over a year--all insightful ppl imo--and this reasoning just came to me in the last couple days.
How are we defining "saved" iow.
bbyrd009
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i suspect this of being counterfeit tbh, or at least essentially moot, the way we define it.
what good is "already saved" if one cannot stand in the fire?
iow if "salvation" means " i got it pressed down, shaken together, and running over right now, and i don't see how things could be any better," then i agree; but if it means "i have somewhere else to go, before my real life can start," then i do not
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Correct...
And one can not live a godly life WITHOUT God.
Not a part-time God, but rather a 24-7 constant God.
Observing, the World's Way, of Parents, Mommies, Daddies, Work, Work, Work, buy stuff, buy stuff, buy stuff;
And the children?
From newborn to adulthood....
Anyone and Everyone (but the parents) "taking care" of the children.
The children's Foundation?
What the World dictates.
And the Headlines?
Shocking ~
Kids killing kids, Kids Unruly, Kids unknowing and lost, Kids living off parents, the government, well into adulthood.
Shocking? No.
Kids without a Foundation? Yes.
Kids having more kids without a Foundation?
Yes
Problem? Generational Epidemic.
God Bless,
Taken
Saved Now, is "ALREADY" accounted Changed.
We ARE mortal.
Nothing can become TRANSFORMED to immortal, Until the mortal becomes DEAD and CHANGED.
"WE" as mortals, rely on our mortal senses, and TIME, to hear, see, acknowledge what we can trust to believe "IS".
"Immortality", has NO constraint of TIME.
Our FAITH dictates;
What we CANNOT SEE, yet, can be, Changed;
ie. our dead body, ie. soul, ie. spirit.
Our FAITH dictates; To TRUST Gods "accounting". The "Change" is accomplished.
Because we are STILL mortals, WE WAIT TO SEE.
The NECESSITY, for the CHANGE to be accomplished....it so that one CAN FOREVER be with the Lord.
Mankind was created BY and FOR Gods pleasure.
Mankind that Becomes HIS People, BY one becoming immortal; WHICH...Becomes Gods Inheritance.
(Sort of funny, odd, to think, God who HAS everthing, WAITS for HIS Inheritance From Individual men).
The NECESSITY, for the man to remain MORTAL, (while having received the change),
Is that, it is MORTAL mankind, who introduces, younger generations of MORTAL mankind, TO God.
And for a Spiritually dead (crucified), Restored soul (saved), & Quickened (born again) spirit (made accounted whole), that does such WORKS of introducing "other" mortals TO God....God greatly rewards such men.
God Bless,
Taken
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