The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Corlove13]

jesus says water baptism required Mk 16:16

You said it is required

 

[Corlove13]

Those who are Gods people whom He foreknew are never outside of Christ, they were chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:14, they were only foreknew in Christ.

Those who are Gods people whom He foreknew are never outside of Christ,

Why would you say that? That would mean they were quickened together with Christ before they believed
they were chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:14, they were only foreknew in Christ.

Let's look at passage:

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The way I understand that is, it was Christ who was chosen before the foundation of the world.

Christ is the location where people who abide in Him will be transformed.

Therefore if you are in Him now you were chosen before the foundation to comform to His image.

Example: there are jr. High students who have yet been to high school. At the high school they will go to there is a class that is geared toward making college ready students.

It existed 20 years before the Jt. High school students stepped foot in high school and got accepted into the class.

So now Let's make a statement:
Our Jr High school counselor has chosen us in class before we were in High school that we would be ready for college.

That's one way I seen that....

 

[Corlove13]

Those who are Gods people whom He foreknew are never outside of Christ,

Why would you say that? That would mean they were quickened together with Christ before they believed
they were chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:14, they were only foreknew in Christ.

Let's look at passage:

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The way I understand that is, it was Christ who was chosen before the foundation of the world.

Christ is the location where people who abide in Him will be transformed.

Therefore if you are in Him now you were chosen before the foundation to comform to His image.

Example: there are jr. High students who have yet been to high school. At the high school they will go to there is a class that is geared toward making college ready students.

It existed 20 years before the Jt. High school students stepped foot in high school and got accepted into the class.

So now Let's make a statement:
Our Jr High school counselor has chosen us in class before we were in High school that we would be ready for college.

That's one way I seen that....

With that said can you say they were in High school before they were in High school....no they were once outside of high school...

 

[theefaith]

Those who are Gods people whom He foreknew are never outside of Christ,

Why would you say that? That would mean they were quickened together with Christ before they believed
they were chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:14, they were only foreknew in Christ.

Let's look at passage:

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The way I understand that is, it was Christ who was chosen before the foundation of the world.

Christ is the location where people who abide in Him will be transformed.

Therefore if you are in Him now you were chosen before the foundation to comform to His image.

Example: there are jr. High students who have yet been to high school. At the high school they will go to there is a class that is geared toward making college ready students.

It existed 20 years before the Jt. High school students stepped foot in high school and got accepted into the class.

So now Let's make a statement:
Our Jr High school counselor has chosen us in class before we were in High school that we would be ready for college.

That's one way I seen that....

only by baptism

 

[Corlove13]

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!


1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)
He prepared the way...that is true...but scripture says this:
1In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea 2and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”


John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)
They were under the law and did diff types of purification... but the reality of a purification is diff from the purification itself. It then was a symbol...
John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)
Yes, the scripture is true but He goes on to explain the meaning there after:

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

So we can see by the question asked...can He enter the second time His mother's womb..Jesus says Flesh gives birth to flesh..meaning the Womans water burst and He is first born of water.

And now He must be born of Spirit ...

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)
John Baptized with water does it say what Jesus Baptized with?...Even right here I think it was water....


John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!
Where does scripture say that?
But what it does say in verse 36 is:

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."


1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Who says baptism is referring to water there..
Wasn't that after the resurrection?

Even there it says the Spirit Baptize..not A disciple


Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ
What's the point being made there?

Dont forget the scriptures that came before:
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

Also

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Does it say faith and water Baptism?

 

[Corlove13]

only by baptism

Honestly...my questions are not for you...
I do not agree with your religion ...

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

o he was saved by being crucified?
Or because he humbled himself?
Or cos he prayed?
But of course it must be “faith alone” ( not not in scripture) only NOT by “faith alone” accept Jesus as your personal savior? Also not in scripture!
Common salvation Jude 1:3
Baptism saves us 1 pet 3:20-21

but I digress, baptism was not required until the death of Jesus Christ!

Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Do you even recognize that which you don't fully understand?

Where do you get this string of "beliefs' from?

In your view, what must one do to be saved? ( good starting point)

Thanks

Have you ever actually applied proper study and reference techniques to the passages you reference?

I say that because you don't appear to have even a fundamental grasp on these subjects.

 

[Corlove13]

only by baptism

You keep adding only by Baptism and not reading....God gave the Spirit before people were Baptized....

So it doesn't make sense to keep parroting that...
Act 10:47
Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

If they received the Spirit before water Baptism...that should tell you that it was a rite.

 

[theefaith]

Do you even recognize that which you don't fully understand?

Where do you get this string of "beliefs' from?

In your view, what must one do to be saved? ( good starting point)

Thanks

Have you ever actually applied proper study and reference techniques to the passages you reference?

I say that because you don't appear to have even a fundamental grasp on these subjects.

still waiting for you to bird dog! Lead on

 

[brightfame52]

Those who are Gods people whom He foreknew are never outside of Christ,

Why would you say that? That would mean they were quickened together with Christ before they believed
they were chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:14, they were only foreknew in Christ.

Let's look at passage:

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The way I understand that is, it was Christ who was chosen before the foundation of the world.

Christ is the location where people who abide in Him will be transformed.

Therefore if you are in Him now you were chosen before the foundation to comform to His image.

Example: there are jr. High students who have yet been to high school. At the high school they will go to there is a class that is geared toward making college ready students.

It existed 20 years before the Jt. High school students stepped foot in high school and got accepted into the class.

So now Let's make a statement:
Our Jr High school counselor has chosen us in class before we were in High school that we would be ready for college.

That's one way I seen that....

I say it because its true.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

still waiting for you to bird dog! Lead on

Stop talking in circles

I asked ( to establish a starting point for beneficial dialog) now be a reasonable person and comply since i cant read minds

 

[theefaith]

You keep adding only by Baptism and not reading....God gave the Spirit before people were Baptized....

So it doesn't make sense to keep parroting that...
Act 10:47
Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

If they received the Spirit before water Baptism...that should tell you that it was a rite.

then baptism is required

 

[theefaith]

Stop talking in circles

I asked ( to establish a starting point for beneficial dialog) now be a reasonable person and comply since i cant read minds

I Said Mk 16:16

 

[theefaith]

You said the thief

I said baptism was not required until the death of the savior

your turn

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

your turn

Fair enough, you stated Mk 16:16

Mar 16:16 He that believethG4100 andG2532 is baptizedG907 shall be saved;G4982 butG1161 he that believeth notG569 shall be damned.G2632

G907 is defined basically in Strongs as "to make whelmed' (saturated with something) and its common usage is in ceremonial ablution
In this case and in context, that "saturation" is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

See,part of that reason is, The "demons" believe Jesus is Lord ( they know it without question) and a demon can take a bath with the best of them but are not "saved".

There are also many who "believe" ( they do great works in Jesus name) but Jesus will tell them "depart from me ye workers of iniquity- I NEVER knew you.

The difference is not the physical ceremony of taking a dunk ( which is routinely forged)- its the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that seals the believer.

And "true belief" ( often translated as faith) is required in order to receive the Holy Spirit.

Hope that helps

 

[theefaith]

Dont forget the scriptures that came before:

The church was founded first the wrote the New Testament

Even there it says the Spirit Baptize..not A disciple

acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

How did the eunuch know about the necessity of baptism
Did not Philip preach faith alone?
Christ alone? Grace alone?


Born again means Baptismal regeneration!
Where does scripture say that?

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

regeneration = new creation / new creature in christ

 

[theefaith]

Fair enough, you stated Mk 16:16

Mar 16:16 He that believethG4100 andG2532 is baptizedG907 shall be saved;G4982 butG1161 he that believeth notG569 shall be damned.G2632

G907 is defined basically in Strongs as "to make whelmed' (saturated with something) and its common usage is in ceremonial ablution
In this case and in context, that "saturation" is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

See,part of that reason is, The "demons" believe Jesus is Lord ( they know it without question) and a demon can take a bath with the best of them but are not "saved".

There are also many who "believe" ( they do great works in Jesus name) but Jesus will tell them "depart from me ye workers of iniquity- I NEVER knew you.

The difference is not the physical ceremony of taking a dunk ( which is routinely forged)- its the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that seals the believer.

And "true belief" ( often translated as faith) is required in order to receive the Holy Spirit.

Hope that helps

true
Faith and baptism
It is a covenant that we are entering not a bible study
You can’t receive the spirit without baptism

faith and baptism

acts 8:36:38 same faith and the sacraments

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

How did the eunuch know about the necessity of baptism
Did not Philip preach faith alone?
Christ alone? Grace alone?

Lets go one point at the time so nothing gets lost.

"Ablution" was ( and still is) a common practice over there so the eunuch could have heard about it or witnessed it from innumerable sources.

During that period of Acts, the believers were new and inexperienced so things like the Spirit were in fact metered. Remember, they didnt have the writings and communication or history back in real time we do today.

Faith (belief) is the part "we' bring- the immersion of the Spirit is what the Lord does. ( He alone knows if our belief is in fact true)

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

You can’t receive the spirit without baptism

Before I comment, i want to make sure- are you referring to the ceremony of water baptism there?

 

[theefaith]

Lets go one point at the time so nothing gets lost.

"Ablution" was ( and still is) a common practice over there so the eunuch could have heard about it or witnessed it from innumerable sources.

During that period of Acts, the believers were new and inexperienced so things like the Spirit were in fact metered. Remember, they didnt have the writings and communication or history back in real time we do today.

Faith (belief) is the part "we' bring- the immersion of the Spirit is what the Lord does. ( He alone knows if our belief is in fact true)

I thought the sacraments are automatic
Ipso facto
They accomplish what they signify

poor souls all they had was the apostles sent with the authority of Christ