The Myth of the Poverty of Jesus

[Strat]

How many times have you heard about how poor and destitute Jesus was,those who say this do not know the meaning of the word poverty,true poverty is when you have nothing,no way of getting anything,no authority to command anything,no ability to create anything,no ability to change anything....Jesus had the riches of the Universe at his disposal,he created from nothing what was needed,he commanded the wind and the waves,he had total command of biology,physics and all other things,there is no record of him suffering any physical abuse at the hand of anyone until his time came,he had complete control of every situation,every encounter,every discussion...knowing the thoughts of those he encountered...and in the end he voluntarily laid down his life and said that no man could take it from him....no man other than Jesus has known such a life in this world.

The modern veiw of Jesus as some poor downtrodden,helpless,hapless man just trying to get people to listen to him is nonsesne bordering on blasphemy...he submitted to authority while no man had authority over him,he submitted to suffering voluntarily,it did not just happen to him like it does us where we have no choice but to endure it,if Jesus didn't eat it was because he chose not to not because there was no money to buy food,he had no place to lay his head because he chose it but he did have a place when he chose not to...if we have no food to eat or place to sleep it is highly unlikely that we chose it for ourself....choice is choice while poverty is no choice.

It is we who are poor,we who are destitute and we who suffer without a choice and we who have no control over anything despite all of the nonsense that tells us we do...our only hope is prayer and faith.

 

[Templar81]

he wasn't poor and destitute. Sure he didn't have a lot of material posessions, but why would he? He said it is better to store up treasure in heaven. Jesus and his disciples had money, but they held it in common and Judas had control over the purse, why this was I don't know. Some of his disciples wre Esseenes and they lived communally, I think it likely that Jesus had a lot of dealings with them. I would say, poor perhaps but not destitute.

 

[us2are1]

How many times have you heard about how poor and destitute Jesus was,those who say this do not know the meaning of the word poverty,true poverty is when you have nothing,no way of getting anything,no authority to command anything,no ability to create anything,no ability to change anything....Jesus had the riches of the Universe at his disposal,he created from nothing what was needed,he commanded the wind and the waves,he had total command of biology,physics and all other things,there is no record of him suffering any physical abuse at the hand of anyone until his time came,he had complete control of every situation,every encounter,every discussion...knowing the thoughts of those he encountered...and in the end he voluntarily laid down his life and said that no man could take it from him....no man other than Jesus has known such a life in this world.

The modern veiw of Jesus as some poor downtrodden,helpless,hapless man just trying to get people to listen to him is nonsesne bordering on blasphemy...he submitted to authority while no man had authority over him,he submitted to suffering voluntarily,it did not just happen to him like it does us where we have no choice but to endure it,if Jesus didn't eat it was because he chose not to not because there was no money to buy food,he had no place to lay his head because he chose it but he did have a place when he chose not to...if we have no food to eat or place to sleep it is highly unlikely that we chose it for ourself....choice is choice while poverty is no choice.

It is we who are poor,we who are destitute and we who suffer without a choice and we who have no control over anything despite all of the nonsense that tells us we do...our only hope is prayer and faith.

Amen Strat

I totally agree with everything. Our hope is prayer and faith. Through that faith we are also conquerors in Christ. No more poor, destitute, suffering little dweebs. We can do the works that Christ did and greater. Not because we are greater but because He said so.

 

[rand]

He was forsaken so that we would never be forsaken, He died so that we could live, He took our sin so that He could give us His righteousness, He became cursed so that we could be blessed, and he became poor so that we could become rich. Praise God for Jesus.

 

[aspen]

Jesus had no material wealth, nor did He have authority over creation, within Himself - the NT says that He came down from Heaven and humbled Himself to the will of the Father. It was His faith and perfect union with the Father's will that gave Him His authority over creation. I do not think anyone believes that Jesus was spiritually poor - many poor people today are actually spiritually rich, as well - but they still have to eat.

 

[us2are1]

Jesus had no material wealth, nor did He have authority over creation, within Himself - the NT says that He came down from Heaven and humbled Himself to the will of the Father. It was His faith and perfect union with the Father's will that gave Him His authority over creation. I do not think anyone believes that Jesus was spiritually poor - many poor people today are actually spiritually rich, as well - but they still have to eat.

Christ had the power of God over creation. He grew arms instantly where there were none. He created eye balls in the sockets where there were none. He raised the dead, walked on the water, calmed the storm, turned water into wine, healed people without being there. Fed five thousand with two loaves.

He told those with ears to hear that if you believe and don't doubt you will do the same.

The question is "Why don't you believe in Christ?

12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also;

21 So Jesus answered and said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, 'Be removed and be cast into the sea,' it will be done.

35 And Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

20 So Jesus said to them, "Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.

23 Jesus said to him, "If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes."

24 Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them.

 

[rand]

Right on Son-of-man,

He did all those things as a man--setting the example for us to imitate (follow).

 

[aspen]

Of course Christ did all of the miracles recorded in the NT and many more that were not recorded. However, He was acting as an example for us in a humbled form of a servant - His miracles were accomplish because of His perfect relationship with the Father. He said Himself that He came to act out His Father's will. This is basic Christianity, folks - nothing revolutionary here.

 

[us2are1]

Of course Christ did all of the miracles recorded in the NT and many more that were not recorded. However, He was acting as an example for us in a humbled form of a servant - His miracles were accomplish because of His perfect relationship with the Father. He said Himself that He came to act out His Father's will. This is basic Christianity, folks - nothing revolutionary here.

What seems to be revolutionary here (but shouldn't be) is the fact that Christ has Given it all including the perfect relationship with ""Our"" father in heaven to all who will follow Him. it is a matter of salvation that you begin to talk to God and develop that perfect relationship with Him. Christ is "The Way", "The Truth" and "The Life".
Ask God for His Spirit and follow Him.

 

[aspen]

What seems to be revolutionary here (but shouldn't be) is the fact that Christ has Given it all including the perfect relationship with ""Our"" father in heaven to all who will follow Him. it is a matter of salvation that you begin to talk to God and develop that perfect relationship with Him. Christ is "The Way", "The Truth" and "The Life".
Ask God for His Spirit and follow Him.

I have been following Christ for many years. I believe this thread is about Christ and poverty not about my salvation or relationship with Him.

 

[us2are1]

I have been following Christ for many years. I believe this thread is about Christ and poverty not about my salvation or relationship with Him.

And who's thread is It? After being tempted in the wilderness Christ never considered anything that this world had to be worth anything except those who He would call His friends. Who He would bring out of the world also. Christ lacked nothing. He needed nothing and wanted nothing. There is no such thing as poverty to those who are rich in faith.

5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.

 

[Foreigner]

The modern veiw of Jesus as some poor downtrodden,helpless,hapless man just trying to get people to listen to him ....

-- I have never heard such a thing, either in the Christian or secular communities. Ever.
I am not sure the point that is trying to be made with this thread.
Jesus was God in man form, with full power and authority at his fingertips from His Father in heaven.
He forgave sins, healed the sick, and lived as an example for all that followed him, both then and today.

We are to live by that example of humility, compassion and no compromise in our lives today.

Where exactly is the confusion here?

 

[Pelaides]

I agree with the above statement,Jesus is known as being the most influential man in history.Even by people who dont believe in him.

 

[Strat]

-- I have never heard such a thing, either in the Christian or secular communities. Ever.
I am not sure the point that is trying to be made with this thread.
Jesus was God in man form, with full power and authority at his fingertips from His Father in heaven.
He forgave sins, healed the sick, and lived as an example for all that followed him, both then and today.

We are to live by that example of humility, compassion and no compromise in our lives today.

Where exactly is the confusion here?

Reality is not defined by you or your experiences,take for example th idea promoted by the church today that we are to accept Jesus when it is Jesus who accepts us,this one thing alone is enough to make my point without mentioning all the other ways in which the moderen church attempts to diminish Jesus....there is no confusion here...just somebody other than you with different experiences and perceptions.

I have been following Christ for many years. I believe this thread is about Christ and poverty not about my salvation or relationship with Him.

This thread is about the Jesus of the bible vs the Jesus of modern christian and pop culture....God made man vs man made god.

 

[aspen]

Strat, I think you have a hard time seeing Jesus as being financially poor because you have contempt for poor people. How dare anyone equate Jesus with the scum of the earth, right? The manner in which you describe poor people as 'hapless' and 'helpless' makes me realize that I have never meet a person who fits you description who was simply poor, unless they also suffered from a severe mental illness.

 

[Strat]

Strat, I think you have a hard time seeing Jesus as being financially poor because you have contempt for poor people. How dare anyone equate Jesus with the scum of the earth, right? The manner in which you describe poor people as 'hapless' and 'helpless' makes me realize that I have never meet a person who fits you description who was simply poor, unless they also suffered from a severe mental illness.

Typical idiotic,ill informed and ignorant statement from you,go ask one of your clients to walk on water,make Wine from water or feed 5,000 with a few Fish and a few peices of bread,or how about asking them to pay for their next meal with money they have placed in the mouth of a Fish or perhaps raise one of their freinds from the dead...in your haste to appear that you have any clue you display your profound ignorance of poverty,what it is and what it is not.....good job.

I work for a living and barely get by at times,your arrogance and ignorance prevents you from seeing that since i work instead of laying around drunk or high...and yes i know all poor people are not like that but many of the welfare crowd is and take resources that could be used to care for the truely needy....that concept is beyond you as well....you are an apostate making the way to hell as wide and easy as you can i could not care less what you think of me.

 

[aspen]

Strat bellowed,

Typical idiotic,ill informed and ignorant statement from you,go ask one of your clients to walk on water,make Wine from water or feed 5,000 with a few Fish and a few peices of bread,or how about asking them to pay for their next meal with money they have placed in the mouth of a Fish or perhaps raise one of their freinds from the dead...in your haste to appear that you have any clue you display your profound ignorance of poverty,what it is and what it is not.....good job.

All it takes is faith the size of a mustard seed....

I work for a living and barely get by at times,your arrogance and ignorance prevents you from seeing that since i work instead of laying around drunk or high...and yes i know all poor people are not like that but many of the welfare crowd is and take resources that could be used to care for the truely needy....that concept is beyond you as well....you are an apostate making the way to hell as wide and easy as you can i could not care less what you think of me.

Thanks for illustrating my point.

 

[Strat]

Strat bellowed,

Typical idiotic,ill informed and ignorant statement from you,go ask one of your clients to walk on water,make Wine from water or feed 5,000 with a few Fish and a few peices of bread,or how about asking them to pay for their next meal with money they have placed in the mouth of a Fish or perhaps raise one of their freinds from the dead...in your haste to appear that you have any clue you display your profound ignorance of poverty,what it is and what it is not.....good job.

All it takes is faith the size of a mustard seed....

I work for a living and barely get by at times,your arrogance and ignorance prevents you from seeing that since i work instead of laying around drunk or high...and yes i know all poor people are not like that but many of the welfare crowd is and take resources that could be used to care for the truely needy....that concept is beyond you as well....you are an apostate making the way to hell as wide and easy as you can i could not care less what you think of me.

Thanks for illustrating my point.

You have no point,learned or shared any new cuss words with your kids lately apostate ?

 

[rand]

Disfunctional behavior leads to poverty. Poverty does not lead to disfuncionalism.

Even if Jesus had all the wealth in the world, He still would have been less well off than what He was before He freely gave up everything to come to earth as a man. Now, He will forever be in a created body.

Now, as a man, He has all power on Heaven and earth. He said that as a man, and not in His deity. All power has been given to me... by who? as a man He has been given, as God He owns all.

With all that power, is money an obstacle or an issue?

 

[aspen]

poverty is often generational.