The necessity of the Trinity

[SovereignGrace]

Seeing that the Trinity has been under assault for centuries, I think its imperative that those of us who believe in the triune Godhead stand up against those who oppose this core belief.

God is one God.[Deuteronomy 6:4] Yet, in the Godhead, there are three Persons...

God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit

God the Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit
God the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit
God the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son

Yet, these Three are One God. Not three Gods, but One God, one Being. This diagram is the best illustration I have seen concerning the Trinity...

One member on here states that the Father became the Son. He says he is not a Modalist, yet teaches Modalism, as that is what Modalism avers, the Father became the Son. The Father never became ANYONE. He has always been the Father. The Son has ALWAYS been the Son. The Holy Spirit has ALWAYS been the Holy Spirit.

In the Christ's baptism in Matthew 3, we can see the Son being baptized, the Spirit descending upon Him and the Father's voice in heaven saying "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

So, to deny the Trinity is to deny the gospel of the Christ. The Father commissioned the Son to come and die for His elect ppl, the Spirit was sent to regenerate them. So, the Trinity is a core belief that needs to be believed by all believers.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

A critical defining piece of the Trinity doctrine: that the Father, Son, and Spirit are one God via consubstantiation--.
"For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person"
- The Athanasian Creed

So, to deny the Trinity is to deny the gospel of the Christ.

Note: we are not saved by our ability to pass a theology test. Yes, MANY people have misconceptions about the nature of God, and we should stress Truth and strive to teach it. But a person is not saved by their ability to pass a theology test (or disqualified by misunderstanding things).

 

[SovereignGrace]

A critical defining piece of the Trinity doctrine: that the Father, Son, and Spirit are one God via consubstantiation--.
"For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person"
- The Athanasian Creed


Note: we are not saved by our ability to pass a theology test. Yes, MANY people have misconceptions about the nature of God, and we should stress Truth and strive to teach it. But a person is not saved by their ability to pass a theology test (or disqualified by misunderstanding things).

What I mean is that someone who is saved for YEARS and still has a false view of the Triune God is on an unsustainable path. Remember, But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.[John 16:13] The Spirit will not lead someone into a faulty view of the Godhead.

 

[Waiting on him]

What I mean is that someone who is saved for YEARS and still has a false view of the Triune God is on an unsustainable path. Remember, But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.[John 16:13] The Spirit will not lead someone into a faulty view of the Godhead.

Maybe this individual is a work in progress

 

[brakelite]

Throughout the centuries theologians and religious bigots have sought to set aside those with genuine reservations regarding the nature of the Godhead as being heretics, schismatic, and lost. In order to protect what they considered "truth" they killed those who differed with add much zeal as they could muster, using the powers of government to implement their persecutions. Anyone with the slightest difference of opinion as to how the Godhead was to be understo od, was removed from office, the church, and ultimately, society. I see many forums do the same thing. They remove from membership anyone who disagrees with the set formula that was devised by the early church as a sacrosanct dogmatic decree.
It amazes me that anyone, human or even angel, can with such confidence claim they understand God to such a degree that they are willing to condemn any who disagree. I sense the same degree of arrogance in the OP demanding that everyone should understand and accept the turf and true formula which to be completely honest, is nothing but assumption and of human devising.
The apostle John informed his readers who and/or what we must believe.
KJV 1 John 2
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

Jesus Himself declared who the true God is...
KJV John 17
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
And the apostle Paul repeated this same idea...
KJV 1 Corinthians 8
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Where in any of the above can one discern a Trinity? Is not the above sufficient? Jesus thought so....(John 17:3)

Yes, there is the holy Spirit. But we are not informed in scripture how he relates to the Father and Son. We are told the spirit belongs to them. We are told that God is Spirit. But beyond that, we do not have that much to go on. Not enough anyway to start creating set formulas and declawing anyone who doesn't accept them precisely as you do are 6 sandwiches short of a picnic.
None of us should be so confident we know God that we'll add to condemn anyone who sees things slightly differently.

 

[Dave L]

It's as simple as this. If the trinity doctrine is true, all who reject it worship an idol bearing Jesus' name. Paul asks "what fellowship has light with darkness? So we steer clear of these as far as concerns fellowship.

Rejecting the trinity would also involve a person in having the spirit of Antichrist. By denying Jesus Christ, and all that he is, came in the flesh. A false Jesus will not suffice.

So the doctrine is of supreme importance and not to be treated lightly. It is the one doctrine that separates Christianity from all other religions of the world. To reject it makes one closer to Judaism or Islam than to Christianity.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.

first I'm not a believer in the trinity. second, the bible is clear that God is one Person, who shared himself in flesh, and had the title son.

but instead of arguing, let the bible speak. in your post you said this,

In the Christ's baptism in Matthew 3, we can see the Son being baptized, the Spirit descending upon Him and the Father's voice in heaven saying "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

where in scripture do it say that the voice at Christ Baptism, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased", is the Father voice? book chapter and verse please, no assumptions. because at The transfiguration the bible clearly states that the voice there is the Fathers voice, but only the son and the father was there.

second, if there is a trinity of three person, then Reconcile John 1:3 with Isaiah 44:24. we been asking this question for a few months now.

let the bible tell us Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?

PICJAG.

PS, there is no necessity for a trinity, only for men imagination.

 

[Dave L]

GINOLJC, to all.

first I'm not a believer in the trinity. second, the bible is clear that God is one Person, who shared himself in flesh, and had the title son.

but instead of arguing, let the bible speak. in your post you said this,

where in scripture do it say that the voice at Christ Baptism, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased", is the Father voice? book chapter and verse please, no assumptions. because at The transfiguration the bible clearly states that the voice there is the Fathers voice, but only the son and the father was there.

second, if there is a trinity of three person, then Reconcile John 1:3 with Isaiah 44:24. we been asking this question for a few months now.

let the bible tell us Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?

PICJAG.

PS, there is no necessity for a trinity, only for men imagination.

This is where you turn God into a split personality, by saying he is one person instead of one being.

If someone says this is my son, who but a father or mother can claim this?

 

[101G]

This is where you turn God into a split personality, by saying he is one person instead of one being.

If someone says this is my son, who but a father or mother can claim this?

(smile), you still haven't learn, has you? is Diversified "split"? yes or no?

PICJAG.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

where in scripture do it say that the voice at Christ Baptism, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased", is the Father voice? book chapter and verse please, no assumptions.

Can’t say I wholeheartedly disagree with you so this is not disagreeing but asking what you mean?

2 Peter 1:17-18
[17] For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. [18] And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Yes, other times the word says a voice spoke but by nature This is my beloved Son ...would be the Father of the Son whom the voice belonged? As He is the Father of the children of God. Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

 

[Dave L]

(smile), you still haven't learn, has you? is Diversified "split"? yes or no?

PICJAG.

You call it "Diversified Oneness" to cover the fact that you really teach that God has a split personality. It's all double talk when sifted down to what you are really saying.

 

[101G]

2 Peter 1:17-18
[17] For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. [18] And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

that was on the Mountian of transfiguration which we gave, but at the baptism, please post book chapter and verse, as to who actually spoke. as was with the transfiguration 2 Peter 1:17-18 confirm the voice as the father, but can you confirm who spoke at the baptism?

PICJAG

 

[101G]

You call it "Diversified Oneness" to cover the fact that you really teach that God has a split personality. It's all double talk when sifted down to what you are really saying.

Nope I caLL IT Just what the bible caLLS IT, listen, Jesus is identified as the "OFFSPRING", Revelation 22:16
OFFSPRING: G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock

at least "diversity" is in the bible identification of the person. and this "diversity" is simply "ANOTHER" of oneself, which is G243 Allos... lol.

which you cannot understand, but the bible is clear..... only to those who have ears to hear.

and John 1:3 and isaiah 44:24 backs this up....... well?.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

A lie is always exposed, for light cast out darkness. John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 do just that. they expose the lie.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

that was on the Mountian of transfiguration which we gave, but at the baptism, please post book chapter and verse, as to who actually spoke. as was with the transfiguration 2 Peter 1:17-18 confirm the voice as the father, but can you confirm who spoke at the baptism?

PICJAG

This is my “Son” ?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

that was on the Mountian of transfiguration which we gave, but at the baptism, please post book chapter and verse, as to who actually spoke. as was with the transfiguration 2 Peter 1:17-18 confirm the voice as the father, but can you confirm who spoke at the baptism?

PICJAG

Necessarily do not disagree with either you or Dave ...just asking. Seems y’all have had this conversation with same around and around motion. Was up late last night confused over this very thing of who is speaking sometimes. Jesus Christ said the volume of the book is of Him. So it has never been hard to hear that He is indeed throughout the OT as Lord. Not the flesh but God being only One. Can’t wrap my mind around it though and not even sure it is as necessary as knowing who God is, seen in the Son. You are speaking of triune or trinity ...can a share a passage with you and maybe you could help on who is speaking?

 

[Harvest 1874]

It's as simple as this. If the trinity doctrine is true, all who reject it worship an idol bearing Jesus' name.

Rejecting the trinity would also involve a person in having the spirit of Antichrist. By denying Jesus Christ, and all that he is, came in the flesh. A false Jesus will not suffice.

So the doctrine is of supreme importance and not to be treated lightly. It is the one doctrine that separates Christianity from all other religions of the world. To reject it makes one closer to Judaism or Islam than to Christianity.

Well then applying the same logic, If the trinity doctrine is false, all who accept it worship an idol bearing Jesus' And as you say, "what fellowship has light with darkness? So should we likewise steer clear of these as far as concerns fellowship?

Nor does rejecting the Trinity imply that one denies Jesus is the Christ, I can't answer for anyone else but we affirm this 100%.

 

[101G]

This is my “Son” ?

yes his son, but who voice.

listen Genesis 22:11 "And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
Genesis 22:12 "And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me". who was Abraham to offer his only son to? let's see, Genesis 22:1 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
Genesis 22:2 "And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

God told Abraham to offer his son, not to ab angel, but was it not the angel who spoke from heaven? and the angel said, "for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me".

see VJ, people assume that it's God voice, because it came from heaven. but angels speak from heaven on God behalf.

Hoped this helped.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

if the doctrine is true, then the bible will confirm it. anyone, just reconcicle John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24. this is a simple test.

PICJAG.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

yes his son, but who voice.

listen Genesis 22:11 "And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
Genesis 22:12 "And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me". who was Abraham to offer his only son to? let's see, Genesis 22:1 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
Genesis 22:2 "And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

God told Abraham to offer his son, not to ab angel, but was it not the angel who spoke from heaven? and the angel said, "for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me".

see VJ, people assume that it's God voice, because it came from heaven. but angels speak from heaven on God behalf.

Hoped this helped.

PICJAG.

I’m sorry. Still not seeing it John 12:28
[28] Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying , I have both glorified it , and will glorify it again.

He spoke to the voice and called Him “Father”. Do see the voice that spoke other times Revelation 16:17
[17] And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Would say that is the resurrected Son’s voice (the Lord) saying “It is done.”