The Numbers 12 and 13, Fertility, The Zodiac, Religion, Time and Music’s Common Thread

[Stranger]

In studying the Zodiac there are several books written.

1.) The Gospel In The Stars by Joseph A. Seiss

2.) The Witness Of The Stars by E.W. Bullinger

3.) Land Born In A Day by R.H. Mount

R.H. Mount's books I don't believe are in print any more but you can find them used online still. And they are very cheap priced, yet they are a gem in knowledge. If any is interested in a study of the Tabernacle his book 'The Law Prophesied' is indispensable.

We know that the stars in the heavens were given for light, seasons, calendars, and signs. (Gen. 1:14) "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years."

This placing of stars in the Heavens declares and speaks and reveals knowledge. (Ps. 19:1-6) "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun. Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it; and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof."

Consider now what the Zodiac is. The Sun is the key figure. Through the period of a year it moves eastward passing through 12 constellations that we call the Zodiac. The path it travels is called the ecliptic. Yes we know the sun is not the one moving. It is the earth moving. But this is how we observe it here on earth. And God knows that. Which is why we still call sunrise, sunrise. Or sunset, sunset.

The path, ecliptic, the Sun travels through in this Zodiac is called 'their line' in (Ps. 19:4). The 12 Zodiac constellations the sun travels through is called a tabernacle in (19:4). And the Sun is the Son, the bridegroom and strong man running the race. (19:5) As was said of Him in (John 1:14), "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us....." The word 'dwelt' there is 'tabernacled'. And of that Bridegroom we are told "His going forth is from the end of the heaven." (19:6) Who can miss the imagery. (Micah 5:2) "...out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

So, that plan of salvation of God, which is presented in the Gospel, Jesus Christ runs the race in. Accomplishing and fulfilling the various steps that make up that plan. All of which are revealed in the Zodiac, the ancient revelation from God to man. This is why God asked Job in (Job 38:32) "Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season?" Mazzaroth is Zodiac. Only God can perform the steps, in their season, of that salvation process.

More later.

Stranger

 

[Windmillcharge]

If the Lord should use different methods to bring in lost sheep in ways others wouldn't even try at, who should speak against this?

God can and does use any method he chooses. But that is totally different from someone picking up what is not associated with God and saying it is associated with God.

The ordinary person sees no connection between the horescope in the paper and Christianity.
An expert in horescopes may see the connection you are referring to and may be open to talk about Jesus.
How many people do you meet who study the 'theology' of horescopes?

 

[mychael]

God can and does use any method he chooses. But that is totally different from someone picking up what is not associated with God and saying it is associated with God.

The ordinary person sees no connection between the horescope in the paper and Christianity.
An expert in horescopes may see the connection you are referring to and may be open to talk about Jesus.
How many people do you meet who study the 'theology' of horescopes?

The Lord reveals the secret teachings to those who show themselves worthy. Every Lost Sheep is sacred to the Lord. When Paul taught to a people of a culture he would use their own teachings and understandings to bring the people to the proper understanding of Christ. The writings I was inspired to do are for teachers to understand different ways to reach the lost Sheep. The common threads that show the relationships that can bring understanding. Just because another has chosen not to try does not mean that I or anyone else should not.

 

[Stranger]

We saw in post #(21), in reference to (Gen. 1:14), that the stars in the heavens are to be for signs. This means they represent or signify something from God. If God created the heavens, which He did, and He says the stars in the heavens are to signify something, then that meaning must come from Him. Has anyone ever tried to locate these 12 representative starry groups in the heavens? Good luck. They are there, but trying to make that star group into Virgo the Virgin or Leo the Lion, seems impossible. In other words, they don't look like the things they are to represent. But, that didn't stop them from being labeled that way. As we already saw in (Job. 38:31-32), that God plainly says He is the One who accomplishes the purpose for the steps of the Zodiac. So, the meaning associated with these star groups had to have been given by God to fallen man, at an early date. Perhaps even to Adam.

The unbelieving scientific world will mock these signs. Seiss says, "Astronomers growl at them, consider them arbitrary and unnatural, and sometimes denounce them as cumbrous, purerile, and confusing, but have never been able to brush them off, or to substitute anything better or more convenient in their place. They are part of the common and universal language of astronomical science." (Gospel in the Stars, Seiss, p. 15)

The fact that unredeemed man has perverted and made use of these signs into astrology, doesn't matter. Is there anything that God has created that satan does not seek to pervert. And satan certainly would want to pervert the Gospel story no matter how it was written. And as it has been written in the stars, so he has perverted it into astrology which is condemned by God.

R.H. Mount notes that there have been thee distinct revelations given by God to man. 1.) The Zodiac 2.) The Tabernacle 3.) The Bible (The Law Prophesied, Mount, p. 12-13)

Joseph Seiss says "The Gospel is chiefly made up of the story of the Serpent and the Cross--the doctrine of the fall and depravity of man through the subtlety of the 'Dragon, that old Serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world,' and the recovery of fallen man through a still mightier One, who comes from heaven, assumes human nature, and by suffering, death, and exaltation to the right hand of supreme dominion, vanquishes the Dragon and becomes the Author of eternal salvation." (Gospel In The Stars, Seiss, p. 13)

Stranger

 

[mychael]

We saw in post #(21), in reference to (Gen. 1:14), that the stars in the heavens are to be for signs. This means they represent or signify something from God. If God created the heavens, which He did, and He says the stars in the heavens are to signify something, then that meaning must come from Him. Has anyone ever tried to locate these 12 representative starry groups in the heavens? Good luck. They are there, but trying to make that star group into Virgo the Virgin or Leo the Lion, seems impossible. In other words, they don't look like the things they are to represent. But, that didn't stop them from being labeled that way. As we already saw in (Job. 38:31-32), that God plainly says He is the One who accomplishes the purpose for the steps of the Zodiac. So, the meaning associated with these star groups had to have been given by God to fallen man, at an early date. Perhaps even to Adam.

The unbelieving scientific world will mock these signs. Seiss says, "Astronomers growl at them, consider them arbitrary and unnatural, and sometimes denounce them as cumbrous, purerile, and confusing, but have never been able to brush them off, or to substitute anything better or more convenient in their place. They are part of the common and universal language of astronomical science." (Gospel in the Stars, Seiss, p. 15)

The fact that unredeemed man has perverted and made use of these signs into astrology, doesn't matter. Is there anything that God has created that satan does not seek to pervert. And satan certainly would want to pervert the Gospel story no matter how it was written. And as it has been written in the stars, so he has perverted it into astrology which is condemned by God.

R.H. Mount notes that there have been thee distinct revelations given by God to man. 1.) The Zodiac 2.) The Tabernacle 3.) The Bible (The Law Prophesied, Mount, p. 12-13)

Joseph Seiss says "The Gospel is chiefly made up of the story of the Serpent and the Cross--the doctrine of the fall and depravity of man through the subtlety of the 'Dragon, that old Serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world,' and the recovery of fallen man through a still mightier One, who comes from heaven, assumes human nature, and by suffering, death, and exaltation to the right hand of supreme dominion, vanquishes the Dragon and becomes the Author of eternal salvation." (Gospel In The Stars, Seiss, p. 13)

Stranger

I agree that the Zodiac is a universal language, a part of the "Quadrivium," 4 universal languages (Arithmetic, Geometry, Music and Astronomy) and when combined with the "Trivium" (Grammar, Rhetoric, Logic) which are the "ability to transfer understanding through communication" skills, allow the spread of information or conscience to others, their also known under other titles e.g. the 7 liberal arts and sciences. I believe people would be a lot smarter and less prone to stumbling if they would master these skills rather than just today's technology and where it is leading Mankind.

 

[Stranger]

As mentioned last time, that which forms the redemptive story of the Gospel is the conflict between the serpent, or satan, and Christ which results in the Cross. That story is written in the 12 signs of the Zodiac, but with each sign of the Zodiac you have three other star groups associated with them which are called 'Decans'. Thus you have 36 Decans with the Zodiac. This Gospel story in the Zodiac begins with Virgo.

E.W. Bullinger divides these into three categories which I believe is helpful. I will give the First category here, both the Zodiac and each ones three Decans. It is called "The Redeemer".

1.) Virgo--The virgin with promised seed. Speaks to the promised seed of the woman.
a.) Coma--The desire of nations-woman/child.
b.) Centaurus--Centaur with two natures spearing a victim. The despised sin offering.
c.) Bootes--Man walking bearing a branch called Arcturus meaning the same. He cometh.

2.) Libra--The Scales, the price deficient balanced by the price which covers. Speaks to the Redeemers atoning work.
a.) Crux--The Cross endured.
b.) Lupus--The victim slain.
c.) Corona--The crown bestowed

3.) Scorpio--The Scorpion seeking to wound but trodden underfoot. Speaks to Redeemers conflict
a.) Serpens--Serpent struggling with the man.
b.) Ophiuchus--Man grasping the Serpent and struggling with the enemy.
c.) Hercules--Mighty man humbled in conflict holding tokens of victory with foot on head of the dragon.

4.) Sagittarius--The Archer, the two natured conqueror. Speaks to Redeemers triumph.
a.) Lyra--The harp with praise for the conqueror.
b.) Ara--The Altar, a consuming fire for enemies.
c.) Draco--The Dragon, the old serpent, the devil.

This comes from E.W. Bullinger, 'The Witness of the Stars'.

Stranger

 

[Windmillcharge]

The Lord reveals the secret teachings to those who show themselves worthy. Every Lost Sheep is sacred to the Lord. When Paul taught to a people of a culture he would use their own teachings and understandings to bring the people to the proper understanding of Christ. The writings I was inspired to do are for teachers to understand different ways to reach the lost Sheep. The common threads that show the relationships that can bring understanding. Just because another has chosen not to try does not mean that I or anyone else should not.

Secret teaching=gnostic nonsense.

There is only one way of salvation and that is through Jesus.
As I said talking to an expert in horescopes you might find a way to link through to Jesus, but once that link is made knowledge of horescopes becomes irrelevant.
Talking to the casual reader of horescopes in papers and you will lose them.

 

[Stranger]

The Second category that E.W. Bullinger gives in his book, 'The Witness Of The Stars', concerning the redemption story in the stars, is 'The Redeemed' and has to do with the result of the Redeemers sufferings.

5.) Capricornus--The Fish Goat, the goat of atonement. Speaks to blessings procured.
a.) Sagitta--arrow, the arrow of God sent forth.
b.)Aquila--Eagle, the smitten one falling.
c.) Delphinus, Dolphin, dead one rising.

6.) Aquarius--Water bearer, living waters of blessing poured forth. Speaks to blessings ensured.
a.) Piscis--Southern Fish, blessings bestowed
b.) Pegasus--Winged Horse, blessings quickly coming.
c.) Cygnus--Swan, blesser surely returning.

7.) Pisces--Fish, The redeemed blessed though bound. Speaks to blessings in abeyance.
a.) The Band--binding the great enemy Cetus, the sea monster.
b.) Andromeda--Chained woman, the redeemed in their bondage and affliction.
c.) Cepheus--The King, their redeemer coming to rule.

8.) Aries--Ram or Lamb, the Lamb that was slain. Speaks to blessings consummated and enjoyed.
a.) Cassiopeia--enthroned woman, captive, delivered, preparing for her husband the redeemer.
b.) Cetus--Sea monster, great enemy bound.
c.) Perseus--The breaker, delivering his redeemed.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

The Lord reveals the secret teachings to those who show themselves worthy.

hmm, seems like it might be fairer to say everyone is shown, but only a few can see? Same diff i guess

 

[mychael]

As mentioned last time, that which forms the redemptive story of the Gospel is the conflict between the serpent, or satan, and Christ which results in the Cross. That story is written in the 12 signs of the Zodiac, but with each sign of the Zodiac you have three other star groups associated with them which are called 'Decans'. Thus you have 36 Decans with the Zodiac. This Gospel story in the Zodiac begins with Virgo.

E.W. Bullinger divides these into three categories which I believe is helpful. I will give the First category here, both the Zodiac and each ones three Decans. It is called "The Redeemer".

1.) Virgo--The virgin with promised seed. Speaks to the promised seed of the woman.
a.) Coma--The desire of nations-woman/child.
b.) Centaurus--Centaur with two natures spearing a victim. The despised sin offering.
c.) Bootes--Man walking bearing a branch called Arcturus meaning the same. He cometh.

2.) Libra--The Scales, the price deficient balanced by the price which covers. Speaks to the Redeemers atoning work.
a.) Crux--The Cross endured.
b.) Lupus--The victim slain.
c.) Corona--The crown bestowed

3.) Scorpio--The Scorpion seeking to wound but trodden underfoot. Speaks to Redeemers conflict
a.) Serpens--Serpent struggling with the man.
b.) Ophiuchus--Man grasping the Serpent and struggling with the enemy.
c.) Hercules--Mighty man humbled in conflict holding tokens of victory with foot on head of the dragon.

4.) Sagittarius--The Archer, the two natured conqueror. Speaks to Redeemers triumph.
a.) Lyra--The harp with praise for the conqueror.
b.) Ara--The Altar, a consuming fire for enemies.
c.) Draco--The Dragon, the old serpent, the devil.

This comes from E.W. Bullinger, 'The Witness of the Stars'.

Stranger

Secret teaching=gnostic nonsense.

There is only one way of salvation and that is through Jesus.
As I said talking to an expert in horescopes you might find a way to link through to Jesus, but once that link is made knowledge of horescopes becomes irrelevant.
Talking to the casual reader of horescopes in papers and you will lose them.

 

[Nancy]

I am no expert on this but I had a good friend who was quite knowledgeable. I fear that he has passed on now as I have not heard from him in a few months and the last time I heard from him he did have a terminal cancer. Let us remember him or his family in prayer also.

He wrote what amounted to a book on this subject. I have a copy and have posted his final words from it below [the whole thing is many times too long to post here with the 10,000 word limitation]:

Patrick CF&FF 6-18-2012 also known on this forum as: @dorian37grey



Our final thought...

Have you ever wondered where the twelve signs of the zodiac came
from? The word “Zodiac” comes from the Greek word Zoe,
which means “life,” and Dia, which means “through” or “pathway.”

"Zodiac" literally means: "the path to life".

It is the Gospel written in symbolic, pictorial language
manifesting the path to eternal life.

God taught ENOCH these constellation pictures and their meaning in
order to provide a visual revelation of the plan of God to
redeem mankind through the death of Jesus Christ on the cross.

The zodiac and the constellations can be thought of as the original
Bible before the Bible was placed into written form!!!

The zodiac clearly foretells the coming, the life, death,
ressurection, and return, of the King of Kings, Jesus the Christ,
our Messiah.

What else could the zodiac be?
Well, people have for thousands of years found a real and mysterious
power of foretelling futures and fortunes through Astrology and
horoscopes. No one questions how and why the Zodiac becomes a "way"
for some to find the power to read the future.

This is NOT the intention of the Zodiac. The power comes from
somewhere and it is not through Jesus Christ!


Do these people even question where their knowledge and power comes
from?

Satan is a liar and a deceiver...he could be a source.
Or could it come from one or two fallen angels?

Deuteronomy 4: 19

19 "And take heed, lest you lift your eyes to heaven, and when
you see the sun, the moon, and the stars, all the host of
heaven, you feel driven to worship them and serve them,
which the LORD your God has given to all the peoples under
the whole heaven as a heritage.

Deuteronomy 18: 9-14

9 "When you come into the land which the Lord your God is giving
you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those
nations.
10 "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son
or daughter pass through fire, or one who practices withcraft,
or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer.
11 "or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or
one who calls up the dead.
12 "For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD,
and becasue of theses abominations the LORD your God drives
them out from before you.
13 "You shall be blameless before the LORD your God.
14 "for these nations which you will dispossess listened to
soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God
has not appointed such for you.

The fact for us is that while we are on this earth in our lifetime,
the story of our Savior is always above us written in the stars.
This "story" can never be erased or destroyed.

Genesis 1: 14

Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the
heavens to divide the say from the night; and let them be
for signs and seasons, and for days and years

Hi John,
I remember a wile back a guy who said that the story of Jesus was written into the stars...and the Magi followed the star so, I believe there is a connection. God's beautiful glory can be used for good or evil. But, very interesting none the less.

 

[amadeus]

Hi John,
I remember a wile back a guy who said that the story of Jesus was written into the stars...and the Magi followed the star so, I believe there is a connection. God's beautiful glory can be used for good or evil. But, very interesting none the less.

Years ago when my old friend mentioned above @dorian37grey used to post some of these things on one of @Mike Waters old forums and other places I copied to my computer hoping to one day get into a study on it in connection with scripture. Now may be the time but it may be a deep thing. Hopefully with the consent @Stranger I will copy his posts here and with what I already have and my Bible and the Holy Spirit, God may give me something good!

 

[mjrhealth]

First off I don't force anything on anyone I merely wrote about the things that were common.
Secondly I am a christian and therefore I am not under the Mosaic Law.
I personally am justified by my Faith and acceptance of Christ and I am bound by what the Holy Spirit guides me to do.
If you have found the Christ in yourself then you will know which writings and words of others are for you or when your being deceived, if your light is strong.

God created all things to demonstrate His Glory and power. Even the heavens display His Glory, All through the world is a demonstration of His plans for men, all one needs to do is look. We have all we need, even without the bible orr church, because of what he He gave us. mankind is without excuse

 

[mjrhealth]

Years ago when my old friend mentioned above @dorian37grey used to post some of these things on one of @Mike Waters old forums and other places I copied to my computer hoping to one day get into a study on it in connection with scripture. Now may be the time but it may be a deep thing. Hopefully with the consent @Stranger I will copy his posts here and with what I already have and my Bible and the Holy Spirit, God may give me something good!

I pray God will open your eyes, especially on marriage, the whole story from beginning to end is all about Him wooing His bride because He loves her.

 

[Nancy]

Years ago when my old friend mentioned above @dorian37grey used to post some of these things on one of @Mike Waters old forums and other places I copied to my computer hoping to one day get into a study on it in connection with scripture. Now may be the time but it may be a deep thing. Hopefully with the consent @Stranger I will copy his posts here and with what I already have and my Bible and the Holy Spirit, God may give me something good!

I'm sure He will! "He IS a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him"!
Please share what you find, I find this fascinating!

 

[amadeus]

I pray God will open your eyes, especially on marriage, the whole story from beginning to end is all about Him wooing His bride because He loves her.

Amen, my friend! Another thing that @dorian37grey got into was the "kinsman redeemer" [think, Book of Ruth] in scripture. I have not looked at them in a very long time. But I also made copies of his writings about them. I need to review them as well [some where in my computer???]

 

[Nancy]

Amen, my friend! Another thing that @dorian37grey got into was the "kinsman redeemer" [think, Book of Ruth] in scripture. I have not looked at them in a very long time. But I also made copies of his writings about them. I need to review them as well [some where in my computer???]

Yikes John, your computer is going to blow up with all that wisdom contained in it! lol.

 

[amadeus]

I'm sure He will! "He IS a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him"!
Please share what you find, I find this fascinating!

It is a deep subject as you see from what I posted and what @Stranger has posted here. As I said I have what constitutes a book from old friend. I have also marked down the titles listed by Stranger here. I'll be on a the look out for those as well. It is not likely to be soon, but God may surprise me in that.

 

[amadeus]

Yikes John, your computer is going to blow up with all that wisdom contained in it! lol.

I really do seriously hope that someone when I am gone will find good use for all the things saved in my computer. I fear that no one will bother. I have children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, and yet not one at this point taking much interest in God and the things of God. I do pray that that changes. I would like to see it in my lifetime, but if it happens after I am gone, that would also be OK!

 

[Nancy]

I really do seriously hope that someone when I am gone will find good use for all the things saved in my computer. I fear that no one will bother. I have children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, and yet not one at this point taking much interest in God and the things of God. I do pray that that changes. I would like to see it in my lifetime, but if it happens after I am gone, that would also be OK!

If I had your computer, I would never have to read another book for the rest of my life, lol! Except The Word, of course...