Actually, it's not that we don't do these things, and so we forget what God has done. Rather, we forget what God has done, and so we stop.
Much love!
The Old Man and The New Man
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Much love!
Could be either way - some people have admitted to me they know what God did for them, but they are going to do what the government says , even receive the mark of the beast ,
because the government feeds them (they think).
They trust something God says not to trust, ever.
It is for the elders, deacons, or leaders (God's Way),
in an assembly to 'test' newcomers who ... well.... want to 'join' , want to 'bring a message', or to have or become to have fellowship , so as not to permit those who are accursed (bringing a false gospel),
and other points of order directed by God , as noted by God in the Bible.
When people are asked directly, the answers they give may very often surprise you -
they sure did me ....
people are willing !!! to admit sinning, continuing in sin, from lying , adultery, murder, up to accepting the mark ,
and if possible, they continue hanging out with 'Christians' (true or false Christians, either one),
because they want the 'good' company or something, or think the favor of God could rub off on them...
Anyhow, they do not even try to hide their sin (like many posters), and they are in for a shock one day soon.
In the parable of the Brand new wine, i.e. freshly pressed, it is not necessarily put into brand new, i.e. with respect to age, wine skins, but it is put into wineskins that have been refreshed/refurbished so that they will not bust when the brand new wine is put into the skins. Yes, some brand new wine skins will be able to contain the brand new wine, but that is because the wine skin is relatively "new" i.e. in age, and has not been in the store room waiting for the fresh wine grapes to be pressed, because they too, become hard and brittle, like the old wine skins, need to be refurbished so that they to, become like new again and will be able to hold the new wine in them.
We are all acceptable to Christ, but we need to be refreshed, so that we can hold the "Spirit of God" within us, so that to do this we need renew our minds and then we need to put on the refurbished personhood that God intended for us from the very beginning.
It is not about becoming brand new with respect to age, but allowing ourselves to be refurbished so that we do not fail when tested by the fermenting of the "new" wine within us.
Shalom
PS: - @marks and I have had this discussion previously, elsewhere, but at that time he preferred the "new" with respect to age, than the idea of the "new" with respect to "freshness."
We are all acceptable to Christ, but we need to be refreshed, so that we can hold the "Spirit of God" within us, so that to do this we need renew our minds and then we need to put on the refurbished personhood that God intended for us from the very beginning.
It is not about becoming brand new with respect to age, but allowing ourselves to be refurbished so that we do not fail when tested by the fermenting of the "new" wine within us.
Shalom
PS: - @marks and I have had this discussion previously, elsewhere, but at that time he preferred the "new" with respect to age, than the idea of the "new" with respect to "freshness."
preferred? Or concluded? Interesting choice of words there.
But you are correct, we've had this discussion before in respect to kainos and neos.
The child of God who is born of God did not exist before that birth. We are new creations, in respect to time. "Now all is from God."
We are being renewed to the original plan for mankind, and we are being renewed in our minds to bring us up to speed with that new creation, in this case, our restoration.
We've been made brand new in order to restore us to the relationship God wants with us.
It's the muddling of the old man and the new man, and a failure to appreciate how completely new we are that causes untold misery to many believers, I think.
Much love!
Mark, you are saying that unless I become a completely "Brand New" person, then I cannot receive the "new, freshly pressed wine."
This thinking invalidates many Christians today as we are refreshed to become like Him, not made again brand new like Him.
Do a search for the Greek words based on the Greek root G:2537 in the NT and see if "refreshed" or "refurbished" can be used without changing the message or context of the verse when used instead of "New." The Greek Root Word G:2537 can be found 43 times in the New Testament and its use is with respect to objects being made fresh like new again, i.e. refreshed or refurbished.
However, the Greek Root G:3501 found embedded in 23 Greek words in the New Testament, is associated with the "age" of the subject it is associated with, i.e. the newer/younger men/women. The "new wine" is associated with recently pressed grapes, such that the inference is the wine is very freshly pressed to be put into the wine skins.
However, the age of the wineskins is not indicated. They can be "Neo"/band new soft and flexible wineskins or old wineskins brought back from being hard and brittle and made like new again such that they too are now soft and flexible and can safely be used to hold the "young" wine.
Mark, sadly many theologians do not make this distinction between the suitable for function of the wineskins and their respective age. The English language does not cater well where this distinction.
I can buy a "new" house which is new to me, but the house could be very old and it has been refurbished to effect a rapid sale. That is the functionality of the house has not changed, but the freshness of the house has been changed. The old slow combustion stove has been replaced with a modern induction stove cook top and with a more modern over that is a multi functional appliance that can be used many ways to achieve the desired outcome for the food cooked in it, i.e. radiant grill or hot air grill, dry heat or wet heat.
We accept that the word Love in our English language does not adequately cover the various types of "love" that is talked about in the NT, and so we expand and qualify the type of "love" in our understanding of what is being conveyed in the scriptures. The same is also true for the word "new" used in the scriptures. It needs to be expanded to actually convey the intended message found in the scriptures. Just using the one word, "new," to cover all possible understandings simply just does not cut it in my view and this does give the wrong impression for people who read or listen to our "lose" word choices.
Shalom
So then to you, If any be in Christ, he is a new creature, old things are passed away, all has become new, now all is from God, that this is a refurbishment of the corrupt flesh man? Not a new birth of a new creature?
Much love!
We also need to understand the correct application to the teaching.
New and old wineskins has to do with acceptance of the Gospel message, and the incompatibility between the old covenant and the new covenant.
Mark 2
15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.
16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
18 And the disciples of John and of the Pharisees used to fast: and they come and say unto him, Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but thy disciples fast not?
19 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.
20 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
21 No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.
22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
Much love!
That is not really how this matter should be understood. Both the new man and the old man exist side-by-side in all believers. The difference is that the Holy Spirit dwells within the new man (the regenerated and revived spirit), therefore the old man cannot (and must not) dominate the believer. Indeed, the old man must be metaphorically crucified by the believer, since he was already crucified with Christ. Therefore Paul says that we are to *mortify* (put to death) the flesh.
As to being seated in the heavenlies, God already sees His children as seated in the heavenlies with Christ, since they already have the imputed righteousness of Christ put to their account. Believers are seen as perfect in Christ, but they shall be perfected in actuality at the Resurrection/Rapture.
And where did you read that pearl of wisdom? It is so perverted in its understanding that what Jesus was teaching in the Parable of the New Wine and the Old Wineskins is completely missed.
From memory, you are a "New Covenant" person, but the covenant that Jesus came to update was the covenant that had been in vogue since the time of Adam, not the time of Moses. Even the language that Jesus used to identify this unwritten covenant of God with the people, suggest that even though this covenant was available from the time of Adam, it was to be refurbished in His near future, such that the process for salvation would be changed from doing to simply just believing in Him. Your understanding that Jesus came to present a brand new covenant is very wrong, even though you do "believe in Him Whom He sent."
Jesus did not come to refurbish the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the nations Covenant, which was initially instigated at Mt Sinai and which the nation of Israel rebelled against back then, as God intends to make like new again this covenant with the nation of Israel in our near future after the completion of the visitation of their iniquities upon their children and their children's children.
Jesus did bring into play the new process through which salvation could be gained, but He did not alter or modify any of the Laws associated with our salvation. Salvation is available to all who Love the Lord.
Shalom
Hebrews is very specific that the new covenant replaces the old, not modifies it.
Oh Marks, the book of Hebrews speaks a lot about the MT. Sinai covenant of the Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the Nation Covenant which will again become a reality in our near future with the House of Israel and Judah after the Israelites repent of their continual iniquities of idolatrous worship over the four age period where Jacob's descendants worshipped idols right up to and including this present times. In comparing the Mt Sinai Exodus covenant with the Jeremiah 31-31ff covenant there are notable differences. Within this covenant, the Descendants of Abraham will be expected to teach the nations of the whole earth about the Salvation Covenant which is the "everlasting covenant" mentioned in Hebrews 13:20 where the Greek Word based on the Greek Root Word, G:0166, has the meaning of "perpetual" which indicates to me that the covenant was in force and will be in force for all of the time of mankind in our present form.
In Genesis 4:6-7 God speaks to Cain about his salvation and that with His help that Cain can be restored, but if he choses not to be restored that sin lies at the door to consume him and he will become a candidate for the second death because of his choosing to remain sinful.
And I can say the same for the "New Covenant theology" that you are peddling as well, but that is just a way of putting the other down by both of us.
Now have you unpacked Matthew 13:52 and drilled down into the Greek words used in this verse?
I have, and and the way I would paraphrase the last nine Greek word in this verse is:-
"who brings out of his treasury, that which is ancient, from the time of Adam, that has been refreshed/refurbished."
God's intent from the beginning of time was for mankind to have Salvation which is an unrecorded covenantal undertaking on God's part.
Shalom
This would be what Paul wrote to Titus, about God promising eternal life before the foundation of the world. The names written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.
Just the same, the corrupt and corruptible flesh is not "reworked" into a better man. A new man is born from above.
As you know there are many ways to interpret words in Scripture, and especially when you want to get into compound words and back that meaning into other words.
But however you interpret the Bible, it all must harmonize. The flesh is condemned to death, and you will either die in Christ, or die the second death. There is nothing good living in our flesh, even as children of God.
Romans 6
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
"let not sin therefore"
Therefore . . . this is how it is that you do not let sin reign in your mortal body, obeying it's lusts. Know that your old man died in Christ, and a new man is now alive in Christ, a man who is not a slave to sin, but who lives unto God.
We have to reckon this to be true, or we don't have the right perspective on sin, or our freedom from sin.
We are dead to sin, and alive unto God, not be improving the flesh, but by death and resurrection through Christ.
If your "old man" is being improved, why are you told to put it off?
Much love!
What is your reason for adding "from the time of Adam"?
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