I understand all of the passages from the perspective of the Messiah’s Jewish monotheism.
The one who is still to come
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I understand all of the passages from the perspective of the Messiah’s Jewish monotheism.
A question not just for @David in NJ but for all who don’t understand the passages from the perspective of the Messiah’s Jewish monotheism, why don’t you?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Then you stand with the Jewish monotheists doing this:
The Jews/monotheists answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The Jews/monotheists answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
No. I stand with the Jewish monotheists who are disciples of the Messiah, himself a Jewish monotheist.
Not all of them did. This is the flaw in your reasoning.
When you speak against Jewish monotheism you speak against the Messiah. That’s an incredibly foolish and dangerous thing to do.
”[Jesus] was a first-century Jewish monotheist.” - N.T. Wright
“In summary, the Gospels contain clear and uncomplicated declarations of classic Israelite monotheism attributed to Jesus himself.”
(Jerome H. Neyrey, “Was Jesus of Nazareth a Monotheist? Conversation with Cultural Studies”)
“Classic Israelite monotheism” is Jewish monotheism. Jesus affirms it.
***
One of the best conversations I’ve ever had on the subject was with a trinitarian pastor in 1997. He said many things in support of the Trinity during our private meeting in his office, but the most important thing he said to me was this:
”You have good and sound biblical reasons for believing in Jewish monotheism but that is not what the church teaches.”
As the conversation drew to a close, we shook hands and he asked me to think carefully about the matter. I have ever since.
(Jerome H. Neyrey, “Was Jesus of Nazareth a Monotheist? Conversation with Cultural Studies”)
“Classic Israelite monotheism” is Jewish monotheism. Jesus affirms it.
***
One of the best conversations I’ve ever had on the subject was with a trinitarian pastor in 1997. He said many things in support of the Trinity during our private meeting in his office, but the most important thing he said to me was this:
”You have good and sound biblical reasons for believing in Jewish monotheism but that is not what the church teaches.”
As the conversation drew to a close, we shook hands and he asked me to think carefully about the matter. I have ever since.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Jesus was never a 'monotheist' according to blind Jews who sought to kill God.
But HE does have one FATHER, who, when HE was on earth as a man, taught other's (who would listen) to worship the FATHER in Spirit and in Truth.
Of course, you being a monotheist, are unable to contemplate this beyond 2D imagery.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Your statement fails the test of TRUTH.
Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him.
And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”
But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting upon Him.
And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
None of that is true.
My theology is his theology. Yours isn’t. I’m good with mine and you appear to be good with yours, which was formerly mine.
As I’ve demonstrated, scripture and trinitarian scholarship aren’t on your side. That hasn’t meant anything to you. That’s your business.
Jesus himself, as virtually all scholars recognize and acknowledge, is a Jewish monotheist. It’s simply an historical fact. That’s my business.
What should @David in NJ do? Quote trinitarian scholars who deny that Jesus himself is a Jewish monotheist, if he can locate any.
It’s true that I‘m a monotheist. It’s also true that the Messiah and the apostles are monotheists.
Speaking against monotheists does nothing to strengthen your position. In fact, it undermines it.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
"scholars" = God gets a good laugh at that all the time
There is only One Scholar that we can trust = the Holy Spirit = aka the Spirit of Truth
Where is the wise? Where is the scribe/scholar? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Someone in your position has to take a low view of scholarship.
The Holy Spirit won’t teach anyone that Jesus isn’t a Jewish monotheist.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
That’s odd. I have. Hundreds upon hundreds of times on this forum.
The God of the OT scriptures is the God of the NT scriptures. “LORD” is the standard convention used in most English translations of the Bible in place of the one God’s personal name, the tetragrammaton (yod-he-vav-he).
Yahweh is the Messiah’s God and Father.
Confirmed in scripture and in trinitarian scholarship.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Well then now = Jesus is the LORD
one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Let's count:
One Spirit
One Lord
One FATHER
These THREE are ECHAD = ONE UNITED ELOHIM
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