The Popular False Justification and False Sanctification View Today.

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He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness 2Cor3:6-9

Im only quoting what Paul plainly stated, nothing more

Right, the letter that kills is in reference to the Law of Moses. It’s not referring to some form of wrong interpretation. We are not under the Laws of Moses as a whole package deal. Paul says we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter in Romans 7:6. Why do you keep bringing up the Law when we as Christians are not under it? What about the Laws of Jesus Christ and His followers? Are you not under those laws?

 

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Baloney is stating Paul did not have in mind the moral law when he repeatedly stated you could not be justified/righteous by obeying the law

I believe a person cannot first obey the moral law to be saved. They first need to be saved by God’s grace to have their past sins wiped out. Then they are to enter the Sanctification Process by the Spirit, and obey God’s laws as a part of God’s continued plan of salvation.

 

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@savedbygrace1

Look. The last chapter of the Bible says this:

Revelation 22:14-15
“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”

So obviously it’s more than just being saved by God’s grace through faith without works in our Initial Salvation.

But Protestants have found multiple ways to ignore the truth of this verse. They either adhere to Modern Translations or they think salvation is different in the end times. They will do anything to protect their precious man made religion or fantasy sayings within Protestantism.

 

[savedbygrace1]

I believe a person cannot first obey the moral law to be saved. They first need to be saved by God’s grace to have their past sins wiped out. Then they are to enter the Sanctification Process by the Spirit, and obey God’s laws as a part of God’s continued plan of salvation.

If you believe you faultlessly obey the letter of God's moral laws, you are blind indeed

 

[savedbygrace1]

@savedbygrace1

Look. The last chapter of the Bible says this:

Revelation 22:14-15
“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”

So obviously it’s more than just being saved by God’s grace through faith without works in our Initial Salvation.

Would you like me to quote some of Jesus literal commands in the gospels to you, and then ask you if you obey them all? If you were honest, you would not even try to obey them. Try reading the bible in a way you do not condemn yourself

 

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If you believe you faultlessly obey the letter of God's moral laws, you are blind indeed

Not all sin is the same. There are sins that are not unto death (1 John 5:16) (Also see Matthew 5:22 in the Amplified Translation).
After being saved by God’s grace, Christians need to meet the bare minimum level requirement or living holy in their Sanctification to enter the Kingdom. Granted, I should not really have to tell you this if you were to just read and believe your New Testament at face value vs. believing what Protestants say instead. Stop listening to Protestants and just get into your Bible and believe it and ask God to help you understand it.

 

[savedbygrace1]

Not all sin is the same. There are sins that are not unto death (1 John 5:16) (Also see Matthew 5:22 in the Amplified Translation).
After being saved by God’s grace, Christians need to meet the bare minimum level requirement or living holy in their Sanctification to enter the Kingdom. Granted, I should not really have to tell you this if you were to just read and believe your New Testament at face value vs. believing what Protestants say instead. Stop listening to Protestants and just get into your Bible and believe it and ask God to help you understand it.

So there's your get out of jail free card. You can excuse the sin you commit as trivial sin, whilst quoting the letter to others and insist they obey it.

 

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Would you like me to quote some of Jesus literal commands in the gospels to you, and then ask you if you obey them all? If you were honest, you would not even try to obey them. Try reading the bible in a way you do not condemn yourself

If I don’t obey God’s commands under the New Covenant in this life, then I am toast. My life is not the standard. God’s Word is the standard. I believe God also gives His followers grace to learn to obey His commands. It takes time for believers to mature and grow to obey Him.

See, that’s the problem with Protestantism. It seeks to look at things from a worldly or carnal perspective or experience (i.e. by sight) rather than just believing God’s Word by faith. You want things to just practically work for you. We all need to fully surrender to God and accept what His Word says. Protestantism does not accept what the Bible says fully. Yes, they get the understanding on God correctly in that He is triune or a Trinity, but when it comes to salvation and sin… Oh boy. They really just start making up a bunch of sayings that are not in the Bible.

 

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So there's your get out of jail free card. You can excuse the sin you commit as trivial sin, whilst quoting the letter to others and insist they obey it.

Not at all. If the Bible brings up a command that if disobeyed has warnings of hellfire and condemnation to attached to it, then… I have to obey those commands or I am toast. Yes, there is God’s grace. We can confess of sin to be forgiven of sin, but God also expects us to reach a point to live holy. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). The thing is… you don’t believe Hebrews 12:14. You also don’t believe Philippians 2:12 because you don’t really believe that you have to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. That’s why Protestantism is sick and troublesome. It does not do justice to a normal and or plain reading of the Bible. Verses have to be twisted and changed for fit Protestantism (Just as Catholics and or Orthodox do the same thing to justify their wrong beliefs in the Bible).

 

[savedbygrace1]

If I don’t obey God’s commands under the New Covenant in this life, then I am toast. My life is not the standard. God’s Word is the standard. I believe God also gives His followers grace to learn to obey His commands. It takes time for believers to mature and grow to obey Him.

See, that’s the problem with Protestantism. It seeks to look at things from a worldly or carnal perspective or experience (i.e. by sight) rather than just believing God’s Word by faith. You want things to just practically work for you. We all need to fully surrender to God and accept what His Word says. Protestantism does not accept what the Bible says fully. Yes, they get the understanding on God correctly in that He is triune or a Trinity, but when it comes to salvation and sin… Oh boy. They really just start making up a bunch of sayings that are not in the Bible.

Have you fully surrendered to God in your own life, do you fully obey Jesus commands? Do you fully obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break? To obey the ten commandments you must obey that law. It isn't about not wanting to live a holy life, but we must be wary of people who do not practice what they preach, as Jesus warned us to be

 

[savedbygrace1]

Not at all. If the Bible brings up a command that if disobeyed has warnings of hellfire and condemnation to attached to it, then… I have to obey those commands or I am toast. Yes, there is God’s grace. We can confess of sin to be forgiven of sin, but God also expects us to reach a point to live holy. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). The thing is… you don’t believe Hebrews 12:14. You also don’t believe Philippians 2:12 because you don’t really believe that you have to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. That’s why Protestantism is sick and troublesome. It does not do justice to a normal and or plain reading of the Bible. Verses have to be twisted and changed for fit Protestantism (Just as Catholics and or Orthodox do the same thing to justify their wrong beliefs in the Bible).

You see, you tell people they MUST not covet. However I know you still covet, so you are simply telling others they must not do what you yourself do, do.

 

[savedbygrace1]

For those who dont understand the new covenant.
The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56 The law, with its power to condemn/righteousness of obeying the law
Yet, the law itself is holy, righteous and good Rom7:12
So how could God remove the power of sin whilst keeping intact what is holy, righteous and good? He removed an external law engraved in stone, and placed the law in believers hearts and minds, giving them an internal law. An external law does not mean you in your heart want to obey it, but a law in your heart means, you in your heart do want to follow it. Your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more, ONLY because the law is now in your heart. Therefore it simply means, in your heart you do not want to commit adultery, you do not want to steal, bear false witness, take the Lords name in vain covet etc
Therefore, by placing the law within you, God could remove righteousness of obeying the law(the true power of sin) but keep intact what is holy, righteous and good. What is the result? What happens if you remove somethings power? It must weaken, hence:
For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace. Rom6:14
However, many still want a written law, the way they speak the law still seems to be an external one for them . You cannot hide from a law placed in your most inward parts, you cannot kid yourself you perfectly obey it. An external law, does not give you the conviction of sin an internal law will, hence if you have an external law, you may well kid yourself you obey far better than you actually do. But as Jesus said:
Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say the old is better Luke5:39

 

[mailmandan]

But, like many words, it has more than one definition and usage. That's what you're not getting. And context shows us which definition Paul is using and which definition James is using. If they're using the exact same definition then they are in contradiction to one another making our Bibles, and the Christian faith, false. Just another religion of opinion.

Amen! In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

G1344 - dikaioō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.

James 2:21 - Was not Abraham our father justified (shown to be righteous) by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

If James is saying that Abraham was "accounted as righteous" by works, then Paul and James are in contradiction to one another, but there are no contradictions in God's Word. The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:21 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous. James, however is using the term to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

James 2:24 - You see then that a man is justified (shown to be righteous) by works, and not by faith only, which is an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works (which is not salvic faith). James 2:14 - What use is it, my brethren, if someone says/claims (key word) he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. Works-salvationists just cannot seem to grasp this.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

 

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If you believe you faultlessly obey the letter of God's moral laws, you are blind indeed

So what do you do with verses like Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, and 2 Corinthians 7:1?
Whenever I bring these up to Protestants, they always seem to either ignore them or twist them to say something else.
That’s why you are not really Bible alone as your sole guide for all matters of faith and living by faith.
Just as the Catholics go by their traditions that override their reading of the Bible, most Protestants have their traditions which undo the Word of God.

 

[savedbygrace1]

So what do you do with verses like Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, and 2 Corinthians 7:1?
Whenever I bring these up to Protestants, they always seem to either ignore them or twist them to say something else.
That’s why you are not really Bible alone as your sole guide for all matters of faith and living by faith.
Just as the Catholics go by their traditions that override their reading of the Bible, most Protestants have their traditions which undo the Word of God.

I will address your scriptures once you answer my question. When Paul relentlessly stated you cannot be justified/righteous by obeying the law, do you now accept he primarily had the moral law/mainly ten commandments in mind when he wrote that?

 

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Have you fully surrendered to God in your own life, do you fully obey Jesus commands? Do you fully obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break? To obey the ten commandments you must obey that law. It isn't about not wanting to live a holy life, but we must be wary of people who do not practice what they preach, as Jesus warned us to be

Look. You are not even listening. You are still talking about the Ten Commandments, when I already told you that the Ten Commandments as a package deal is not given to Christians. Nor are the 613 Laws of Moses given to Christians. The Ten Commandments were given to Israel. Yes, 9 out of the 10 commandments apply in the New Covenant, but that is only because they are commands given to us by Jesus and His followers.

We don’t follow Moses. We follow Jesus.
Jesus and His followers gave us laws and or commands.
After we are saved by God’s grace, keeping certain laws or commands that come from Jesus and His followers are a salvation issue (See: 1 John 3:23, and Romans 8:2).

As for the whether or not do I obey the Lord’s commands:

The issue is not my life or standard. I am merely relaying to you what the Bible says on the topic of salvation vs. the Protestant version that distorts the truth of the Bible. I have to obey God’s commands, just like everyone else. There will be no excuses come Judgment day if people disobey God’s commands. Protestants ignore verses in the Bible to fit their own experience or lifestyle and they don’t believe all verses in their own Bible by faith.

For example: You don’t believe Philippians 2:12. You don’t believe in working out your salvation with fear and trembling.
There is no fear of God in your Protestant religion. You just ignored this point that I made to you before. Then again, you really have not been listening. You said you were not willing to read my longer post.

So why should I continue to reply to you if you don’t read what I say with Scripture?

 

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I will address your scriptures once you answer my question. When Paul relentlessly stated you cannot be justified/righteous by obeying the law, do you now accept he primarily had the moral law/mainly ten commandments in mind when he wrote that?

Please show me the chapter and verse or verses you are referring to.

 

[savedbygrace1]

Look. You are not even listening. You are still talking about the Ten Commandments, when I already told you that the Ten Commandments as a package deal is not given to Christians. Nor are the 613 Laws of Moses given to Christians. The Ten Commandments were given to Israel. Yes, 9 out of the 10 commandments apply in the New Covenant, but that is only because they are commands given to us by Jesus and His followers.

We don’t follow Moses. We follow Jesus.
Jesus and His followers gave us laws and or commands.
After we are saved by God’s grace, keeping certain laws or commands that come from Jesus and His followers are a salvation issue (See: 1 John 3:23, and Romans 8:2).

As for the whether or not do I obey the Lord’s commands:

The issue is not my life or standard. I am merely relaying to you what the Bible says on the topic of salvation vs. the Protestant version that distorts the truth of the Bible. I have to obey God’s commands, just like everyone else. There will be no excuses come Judgment day if people disobey God’s commands. Protestants ignore verses in the Bible to fit their own experience or lifestyle and they don’t believe all verses in their own Bible by faith.

For example: You don’t believe Philippians 2:12. You don’t believe in working out your salvation with fear and trembling.
There is no fear of God in your Protestant religion. You just ignored this point that I made to you before. Then again, you really have not been listening. You said you were not willing to read my longer post.

So why should I continue to reply to you if you don’t read what I say with Scripture?

Oh Im listening, nine of the ten commandments are applicable law in your view, so are Christ's commands. Yet you do not even try and obey all of Christ's commands do you. And yes, the issue is you also as you are making the statements you do. Jesus warned us to beware of hypocrisy

 

[savedbygrace1]

Please show me the chapter and verse or verses you are referring to.

I want your belief, I dont have to quote scripture, you are running away again

 

[mailmandan]