The Popular False Justification and False Sanctification View Today.

[mailmandan]

@mailmandan

The problem in making the word “justified” as being non-salvific in James 2:24 is because that does not fit the context.
Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
The whole of the context is salvation.

James 2:14 says,
“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?”

James point in it being salvific is James 2:17, James 2:18-19, James 2:24, James 2:26.

Faith without works is dead - James 2:17.
Even the demons believe and tremble - James 2:18.
A man is justified by works and not by faith alone - James 2:24.
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead (James 2:26).

Protestants such as yourself distort James 2:24 to be non-salvific when the context is talking about salvation.
Even the previous chapter is talking about holy actions in regards to our salvation (See: James 1:12, and James 1:21).

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) This absolutely fits the context.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan (and not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

So to sum it up, James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Simple! Saving faith is a living faith that is evidenced by producing works, yet we are still saved by faith and not by works. I'm really beginning to wonder if you will ever figure this out, but with God all things are possible. I am praying for you.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Faith in God's promise of a Son is the only thing that can transform a person into a saved child of God in a born again experience. The obedience of righteous behavior has zero effect toward that end. There is no amount of righteous living that can do that.

Doesn't matter Ferris, you chose either to obey or not, but there is not possible way that God is going to select someone to be a co-ruler of Jesus who does not work hard in the assignment. All anointed Christians devote most of their time serving God. I cannot understand why you would think otherwise.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Remember, God forgives us of our past sins. However, what we do in the future is our own choice: Colossians 1:22-23 tells us: "But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel."

That's a mighty big "if."

that says continue in faith. Not continue in works.

Not everyone has true saving faith. Those who have mere believe will not continue in faith. they will walk away. And John said they were never of us. if they were. they never would have left.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The problem is that you basically make no distinction between faith and works. You seem to wrap both faith and works up in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit, but according to you, both faith and works are the root of salvation.

Works are the evidence of faith, but not the very essence of faith, so works are separate from faith. Faith is faith and works are works. No contradiction at all.

Yes, SHOW not establish. Big difference.

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

I find it interesting that you mentioned 1 Thessalonians 1:3. I was recently in a discussion with a works-salvationist who attends the church of Christ and he was making the same argument about faith and works that you are making. He teaches that we are saved by faith "conjoined" with works and basically makes no distinction between faith and works. Notice the words "work of" faith, "labor of" love and "patience of" hope in 1 Thessalonians 1:3. These are the practical outworking of the Thessalonians' conversion. The "work" the Thessalonians do is a result or consequence of their faith. So too their "labor" flows from love and their "endurance" comes from hope. Work "of" faith does not mean that faith in essence is the work accomplished or that we are saved by works that are produced "out of" faith. Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) Faith is not works. Their work is a result or consequence "of" their faith. The work done is "of" faith or done "out of" faith. Faith was already established at conversion and then the work followed as a result or consequence "of" faith. I've heard other works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics) try to turn work "of" faith into work "is" faith and end up making no distinction between faith and works that follow as a result of faith as well. The end result of course is salvation by faith and works.

Works can only justify us in the sense of being "shown to be righteous." (James 2:14-24) We are justified (accounted as righteous) by faith, not works. (Romans 4:2-6)

"Part" of faith would make them the very essence of faith, which is false. Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of faith, but not the essence of faith and not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation.

Faith and works are not one in essence, so they are separate in essence. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. Just as the root from a tree is separate from the fruit that is produced from the nutrients that flow through the root of the tree and produce the fruit.

It doesn't take reading the whole Bible in order to establish faith in Christ for salvation.

The whole Bible is God's word. Faith is faith and the whole Bible is the whole Bible.

I understand perfectly that you confuse faith in Christ for salvation with believing and obeying instructions from the Bible "out of" faith. This is how you end up with salvation by faith and works.

Nobody teaches "works alone" with no faith whatsoever salvation. Circumcision was one stumbling block for the Jews, but it's not the only stumbling block and it's only one work. Romans 4:2 said "if" Abraham was justified by "works" and not merely circumcision. Paul goes on to say that "faith is accounted as righteousness" (vs. 5) and that God imputes righteousness "apart from works." (vs. 6) So there are no works in the equation here.

Not saved by works in general and not only initially, but finally as well. (1 Peter 1:9) Sorry to burst your bubble, but from beginning to end Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works. No boasting for you.

Progressive sanctification is not about working for our salvation, but working out the salvation that we already have in Christ. Denying ungodliness and living righteously and godly in this present world is what we are saved FOR and NOT BY. You have this backwards and the end result is works salvation.

Romans 4:2 is not merely limited to circumcision. Romans 4:2 clearly states that Abraham was NOT justified (accounted as righteous) by works. In James 2:21, we see that Abraham was justified (shown to be righteous) by works and circumcision is not even mentioned. The work of offering up his son Isaac on the altar is the work in view. Elsewhere, Paul clearly stated that it's not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saves us.. (Titus 3:5) and that God saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works.. (2 Timothy 1:9) so it's not merely circumcision, but works in general which includes works of faith. Works of "righteousness" can only be produced "out of" faith. You need to place in JESUS CHRIST ALONE FOR SALVATION and stop trusting in works. You are on very dangerous ground!

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

prety much destroys their argument

 

[Robert Gwin]

That is hades sir.

Hell is where satan and his angels go. And those who are found not written in the book of life.

Believers do not go to hades, they go to paradise. To be absent from the body is to be present with the lord as the good book says. Thats only for believers not non believers

The only way to keep you from going to hades is to accept the gift of salvation.

Thanks Grateful, did Jesus go to hades sir? Yes he did. Jesus was the very first believer G, and in my opinion the greatest believer. So hades is not filled with unbelivers, although most in it are, but it contains believers as well, so what is hades sir?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thanks Grateful, did Jesus go to hades sir? Yes he did. Jesus was the very first believer G, and in my opinion the greatest believer. So hades is not filled with unbelivers, although most in it are, but it contains believers as well, so what is hades sir?

Jesus went to hades to preach to the prisoners.

Hades is where the rich man went, the begger went to paradise.

Jesus told the thief on the cross. Today you will be with me in paradise. Sorry my friend. Believers do not go to Hades, that is the resting place for the lost. and as revelations says, Hades will deliver its people to christ for judgment, and they will be cause into hell.

The believer will be resurrected by Christ personally.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

John8:34
By your logic, you are a slave to sin, for you are not sinless are you. For you wrote:
Jesus simply said he that commits sin (singular) is a slave to sin.
You see, your comprehension is awful. Therefore, according to your rationalisation and Paul's words, only death awaits you. You are condemned

Peace, blessings, and all good things be unto you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

First, I disagree with your support of the Protestant interpretation on 1 John 1:8 that says we must sin a little bit or we must always sin this side of Heaven (Which would include sins that lead unto death like: Lying, hating, unforgiveness, idolatry, etcetera.). This interpretation runs contrary to Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, and 2 Corinthians 7:1. Also, nothing in the context would support that view of 1 John 1:8, either.

Psalms 106:3 says:
“Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.”

Second, the Bible teaches that there are sins unto death (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Luke 9:62) (Matthew 25:31-46), and there also sins not unto death (1 John 5:16) (Matthew 5:22 AMP) (1 Peter 3:21 - cf. Acts of the Apostles 10:48) (Deuteronomy 19:1-13).

Read on:
''Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.''

When Jesus sets us free, it is in regards to not only being saved by His grace by forgiving us of our past sins (i.e. By our seeking forgiveness of our past life of sin with the Lord Jesus by way of prayer, and believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), but it also is in how He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:6). For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (Philippians 2:13).

James 1:25 CEV
“But you must never stop looking at the perfect law that sets you free. God will bless you in everything you do, if you listen and obey, and don't just hear and forget.”

Psalms 119:11
“Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.”

Its a pity you don't understand context!!

Jesus' point in John 8 was not Protestant Justification in the removal of sin, but Jesus' point was in doing what He says vs. the Jews' sinning.

John 8:31 says:
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;”

John 8:37 says:
“...ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.”

John 8:39
“Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.”

John 8:44
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.”

John 8:47
“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.”

The thing is that you are trying to convince me to not obey God's Words or commands. You make it sound like they are impossible to do. So you make others think that they are impossible to do when God's Word does not teach such a thing. This again is another Protestant teaching that is not found in the Bible. You want things to work practically for all people perfectly and if it doesn't you make excuses for not obeying God's commands (Instead of trying to find reasons to obey God instead). We as believers should be affirming good works and in obeying God's commands to each other as believers but you do the opposite. Your belief runs contrary to John 8:31, John 8:39, and John 8:47.

1 John 1:8

Yes, the false Protestant interpretation on 1 John 1:8 that justifies sin has become a national flag for many.

And yet, you admit you are not sinless don't you! All you do is condemn yourself by your immature understanding of scripture. Can you faultlessly obey the letter of all God's applicable laws? No! You don't even try and obey many of Christ's commands in the Gospels do you!

Again, you don't know my heart, and life and my desire to obey God. I actually do strive to obey all of His commands. Your position is that it impossible to obey all of His commands and so you teach others to do the same instead of trying to fulfill the great commission that the disciples were given. Jesus said teach all nations everything that I commanded you. So Jesus is not your Lord because you speak against what He commands of us. Instead of building believers up to obey Jesus, you encourage them to stay disobedient to Him.

All you do, is woodenly quote the letter at random, with no understanding at all of the message the letter contains,

I already explained to you that the false Protestant interpretation on 2 Corinthians 3:6 is not as Protestants falsely mean it to say. They say this because they think that the Bible has secret meanings beyond what the text actually says plainly. It's the only way they can keep their false doctrines intact, though.

and you cannot live up to the wooden literalistic interpretation of scripture you give. Read Matt 23, and ponder on it

I am not for wooden literal interpretations always.

Check out my write up here:

Biblical Metaphors Shed Light on Ham's Sin in Noah's Tent.

If the Bible is speaking figuratively, then it will let us know in another part of Scripture. If the Bible appears to contradict itself, there is an explanation for it elsewhere in the Bible for those who are diligent students of His Word.

As for Matthew 23:

Nowhere did I tell you to keep certain commands like feeding the poor in your own home when I did not do so (But I am working to make that happen - So thank you). I am telling you and or all believers to enter the Sanctification Process of the Spirit as a part of salvation (2 Thessalonians 2:13) (Romans 8:13), and in time (like all genuine believers who desire to obey God will in time obey all of God's commands in the New Testament). Some commands are essential to eternal life and others are not attached with warnings of hellfire or condemnation if we break them. Granted, we should encourage each other to obey all of God's commands and find ways to obey His commands and not discourage each other to obey His commands because we think they are impossible. Actually, I want to thank you for your harsh words on God's commands. They make me all the more want to obey the Lord in everything. So your discouragement to obey God has been an encouragement to me. Praise be unto the Lord Jesus for His goodness and mercy towards us all so that we can obey the Lord in everything that He commands of us in this life.

Update:

I had to remove these videos from Alan Ballou (that I posted before).

While I liked Alan Ballou’s videos before on Sanctification and putting away sin and they were really helpful, the problem is he is a false accuser of the brethren. In the YouTube comment section in this video here, Alan Ballou falsely accused me of several things that I are not actually true. I said that while I agreed with his viewpoint on how there are two aspects of salvation, I told him that I disagree with his view on “obeying the gospel.” I told him “obeying the gospel“ is defined for us in Romans 10 in that it is believing the gospel message. He also implied there was no free will when we come to the Lord (Which is Calvinism), and he used John 6 as an example. I explained to him why this is not Calvinism and instead of disagreeing in love and respect, he started to falsely accuse me (as if I had teachers, and I went to bible college - when that is not the case). I tried to tell him in love that he was falsely accusing me here, and he never replied back. You can see the conversation under the same username I use here (Bible Highlighter) with there being 16 replies to my comment to him. I refuse to watch somebody who falsely accuses other Christians

Anyways, may the Lord's love shine upon you greatly today (even if we disagree strongly on Scripture on this topic).

 

[Candidus]

How do you know I commit sin regularly? You don’t know my heart, thoughts, or life. You are not God to be able to know all of what I do. Only God can truly make that determination.

Some people assume that the quality of their walk with God and spiritual failures are the standard by which to judge others and the bible.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

...but not to be born again. And that is the point you are missing.

You only have to have works of faith to be saved (when Jesus comes back) in the sense that they are the evidence of having been born again by faith apart from the merit of works. Even you used the word 'evidence' when talking about works of faith:

Do you have a verse or passage that says that works only need to be present only when Jesus comes back?

Anyways, that kind of thinking really does not work with a normal reading on James 2. James says faith without works is dead as a point to those who were not loving the poor brethren. Meaning, they were being fruitless by not having faith that works by love (Galatians 5:6). James said faith (Continued faith, and not Initial Faith) without works is dead (James 2:17). Can a dead faith in the moment save a person? Certainly not. Can the faith of demons save anyone? (James 2:19). That is why the word "justified" is salvific in James 2:24 because the context is about salvation.

Oh, and it's a contradiction to say that works is the evidence of one's faith and yet that evidence is not a part of the faith. We are justified by faith (Romans 3:25-28) (Romans 5:1) which is a part of our salvation. 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11 talks about the work of faith. So works of faith is a part of the faith. You cannot separate the two. Without faith, it is impossible to please Him (GOD) (Hebrews 11:6). For by grace are ye saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8). Works of faith is a part of the faith. Paul is talking about Initial Salvation in being saved by God's grace without works in the 1st aspect of salvation in Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:2-5, Romans 11:6, and Titus 3:5. James is talking about the works of faith that is a part of our continued faith in the 2nd aspect of our salvation (Which is a part of Sanctification) (Please carefully read again very slowly in prayer: 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and Romans 8:13).

Works are the evidence of being born again/saved, not the way you are born again/saved. Even when Jesus comes back, your works don't make you a saved person. They show you to be a saved person.

Being born again is a part of our Initial Salvation in being saved by God's grace. Being born again is not a part of the Sanctification Process. To be born again means a person receives a new heart with new desires (Although their “free will” is not removed completely). While true born again believers are changed, believers are not puppets, and neither are they forced to be a certain way whereby they are guaranteed to be perfect super saints or just good enough to slide by into Heaven.

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

These things would not exist in Scripture if things are as Protestants say. Many sayings by Protestants are simply not in the Bible, and yet many eat up of these sayings as if they were biblical facts (When they are not).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Some people assume that the quality of their walk with God and spiritual failures are the standard by which to judge others and the bible.

I agree, brother. But I do delight in the Lord by the opposition. It makes me want to obey the Lord all the more in all things. I just don't understand why they would speak against disobeying God's commands. That to me is puzzling.

Anyways, thank you for the likes, and may God bless you and your family greatly.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) This absolutely fits the context.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan (and not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

So to sum it up, James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Simple! Saving faith is a living faith that is evidenced by producing works, yet we are still saved by faith and not by works. I'm really beginning to wonder if you will ever figure this out, but with God all things are possible. I am praying for you.

Again, I already told you that I agree that James is talking about CONTINUED Faith and not the Initial Act of Faith in being saved by God's grace.

But where your faith in Protestantism fails or self implodes is that you basically say:

#1. A faith that does not have works means a person is not saved.​

Then you turn around and contradict yourself and basically say:

#2. Works is not a part of salvation.​

Yet, how can they be not saved if they don't have works if those works do not play a part in the salvation equation?

Your words are a contradiction on this point, and you cannot even see it.
Then again, Protestants say many things that are contradictory.

 

[Charlie24]

Actually Charlie the Bible states otherwise sir, although a small amount of the population Mat 7:13,14 many will be preserved. In fact an innumerable great crowd will survive the upcoming tribulation as seen at Rev 7:9,14

There will be millions saved during the great tribulation. The scripture describes them as " their robes washed in the Blood of the Lamb." Rev. 7:14, Rev.22:14.

Look closely what John tells us to do to keep the Commandments. How that He condenses the "Commandments" to the singular "Commandment."

1John 3:22-23

"And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."

We keep "His Commandments" by believing in Christ and loving one another. Christ has done the doing for us on the Cross.

James told us if fail in one of the Laws, we are guilty of all the Law, that is also true with the commandments of Christ. You cannot depend on self to keep anything, you will fail and when you fail just one time you are condemned.

We are covered by the Blood of the Lamb if we live this life in faith and deny our abilities to keep the commandments. This is the way the Holy Spirit will carry out sanctification in our lives, if we live our lives depending on Him and not ourselves. He will slowly but surely bring about the Christlikeness in us by our faith.

If it's not 100% faith in Christ, the Holy Spirit cannot work, then we are left on our own and of course that means failure.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Do you have a verse or passage that says that works only need to be present only when Jesus comes back?

I did not say that. So there's nothing for me to defend.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

James says faith without works is dead as a point to those who were not loving the poor brethren. Meaning, they were being fruitless by not having faith that works by love (Galatians 5:6).

That's what we've been saying.
Faith that does not work is not really faith. That's why that 'faith' can not save. It is no different than the 'faith' of demons.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

James said faith (Continued faith, and not Initial Faith) without works is dead (James 2:17).

Your continuing faith IS your initial faith that hasn't ceased. Stop drawing a line between the two where none exists. Either you are a believing person or you are not.

Can a dead faith in the moment save a person?

Faith is dead (having no works) the very moment you have that faith and are justified/saved. Don't you realize this????

Certainly not. Can the faith of demons save anyone? (James 2:19). That is why the word "justified" is salvific in James 2:24 because the context is about salvation.

You're not paying attention. The works attached to the faith that saves does not make you born again/saved. Every born again person is saved. Every born again/saved person became born again/saved by faith, all by itself, apart from the performance of righteous work. Do you believe this?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Oh, and it's a contradiction to say that works is the evidence of one's faith and yet that evidence is not a part of the faith.

Who said it wasn't???

If works are the evidence of faith (and they are), how can they not be a part of faith? They are not faith. They are the works that accompany genuine faith (Hebrews 6:9). The place where you go wrong is saying the works that accompany genuine saving faith make you born again/saved. No, faith does that all by itself. You know if you have that faith - the faith that makes a person born again/saved all by itself - by if you have works. The works playing no role whatsoever in making you a born again saved person.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

We are justified by faith (Romans 3:25-28) (Romans 5:1) which is a part of our salvation. 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11 talks about the work of faith. So works of faith is a part of the faith. You cannot separate the two.

You haven't been paying attention. NOBODY is saying saving faith can exist without works. What we're challenging you on is your assertion that the works part of the faith that works is the part that makes you a born again/saved person. If that's true then your justification/salvation is a debt that God owes you for your righteous work performed. The very thing Paul said is NOT true about being justified by faith.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Paul is talking about Initial Salvation in being saved by God's grace without works in the 1st aspect of salvation in Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:2-5, Romans 11:6, and Titus 3:5. James is talking about the works of faith that is a part of our continued faith in the 2nd aspect of our salvation (Which is a part of Sanctification)

There is no 2nd salvation. You were born again/saved the moment you believed without aid of works (which I now see you do seem to agree on). You don't need to get re-saved after that by doing works. You're already justified/saved/born again. The works that the new believer then walks in is the evidence of the justification/salvation he already has, not the means by which he then gets re-saved. .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Faith in God's promise of a Son is the only thing that can transform a person into a saved child of God in a born again experience. The obedience of righteous behavior has zero effect toward that end. There is no amount of righteous living that can do that.

Doesn't matter Ferris, you chose either to obey or not, but there is not possible way that God is going to select someone to be a co-ruler of Jesus who does not work hard in the assignment. All anointed Christians devote most of their time serving God. I cannot understand why you would think otherwise.

I don't think you're understanding the argument. The works that believers work are not what makes them a born again/saved person. There is no amount of righteous works and service to God that can do that. That can ONLY happen by having your sins forgiven. Works play no role whatsoever in becoming a born again/saved person. None whatsoever. Works are simply the evidence - evidence that God will use at the judgement - that you are already born again/saved by faith in God's forgiveness.

So it does matter. If you are relying on your righteous performance to qualify you to be saved you are living in the works gospel that Paul says will condemn you, not save you. Works are only the evidence that you are born again/saved. Not the way you become born again/saved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's what we've been saying.
Faith that does not work is not really faith. That's why that 'faith' can not save. It is no different than the 'faith' of demons.

Then you need works of faith as a part of salvation to enter the Kingdom.