The Popular False Justification and False Sanctification View Today.

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

If I eat of the fruit of an apple tree, I am eating a part of an apple tree. For the apple is technically a part of the tree. If God does good works (fruit) through the believer, we cannot say God was not a part of that work. The same is true when we do works of faith as a part of our faith. They are connected together and not separated. This is why works of faith is also a part of your faith. All of your Bible is a part of the faith. For faith comes by hearing, and hearing the word of God (Romans 10:17).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm aware that many are adding to the requirement of faith in Christ.

If salvation requires our "doing" to please God, none of us will make it.

That's the reason God made it simple for fallen man, undeserving Grace.

Anything, I said anything added to that Grace makes our salvation "void and of none effect."

Except that the Bible teaches that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12), and on the other hand, Jude 1:4 warns us that there were those who turned God's grace into a license for immorality. Your way of thinking can easily lead Christians into turning God's grace into a license for immorality (Especially children). This is why the Protestant belief is evil. It creates men like George Sodini who murdered a bunch of people, and who took his own life all while he thought he was saved by having a belief alone on Jesus as the Savior.

To learn more about George Sodini, check out this article here:

O.S.A.S. – THE WATCHMAN'S CRY

Side Note:

This is where some Protestants try to add in some.... buts.
While there are Hyper Grace Christians, the Partial Hyper Grace (the other larger Protestant Group) will say, that men like George were never saved to begin with. But when push comes to shove, when I talked with even Partial Hyper Grace folk, they believe they can sin daily and be saved or that the prodigal believer is saved. So I really don't see the difference between the two. They may say that a believer who practices sin is not saved, but just how bad is that life compared to their own? They never really say (even by using a third person example).

 

[Charlie24]

Except that the Bible teaches that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12), and on the other hand, Jude 1:4 warns us that there were those who turned God's grace into a license for immorality. Your way of thinking can easily lead Christians into turning God's grace into a license for immorality (Especially children). This is why the Protestant belief is evil. It creates men like George Sodini who murdered a bunch of people, and who took his own life all while he thought he was saved by having a belief alone on Jesus as the Savior.

To learn more about George Sodini, check out this article here:

O.S.A.S. – THE WATCHMAN'S CRY

My Lord BH, Paul tells us that Grace is not a license to sin. You are not understanding that we don't work to be saved or to continue to keep salvation, we work because we are saved.

Is Paul lying when he tells us that a man can stand before God with his works burned up and still be saved?

You are inflamed with the misunderstanding of James, letting Grace pass you by, making it void with your wrong application of works.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My Lord BH, Paul tells us that Grace is not a license to sin. You are not understanding that we don't work to be saved or to continue to keep salvation, we work because we are saved.

First, please do not take the Lord's name in vain please.

Second, your words can lead a person to think that God's grace is a license to sin if they left off with your last post and moved on. You mentioned nothing about what you are saying now. But the thing is I believe you are Partial Hyper Grace (Although you are not Full head on Hyper Grace). But I do not see much a difference between the two. Both Christians groups justify some level of sin. Your group says you will sin again at some point as a fact. That is a justification to sin or an excuse to sin (That ends up turning God's grace into a license to sin).

Is Paul lying when he tells us that a man can stand before God with his works burned up and still be saved?

As I told you before, Paul is the person in the parable who is going to be saved through fire while the Corinthians will be burned up and destroyed in the Lake of Fire on account of their justifying the sins of strife and envy. Paul says in Galatians 5:19-21 that those who commit the sins of strife and envy will not inherit the kingdom of God. The Corinthians will be destroyed like wood, hay, or stubble because they are justifying sin.

You are inflamed with the misunderstanding of James, letting Grace pass you by, making it void with your wrong application of works.

James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). Can a dead faith save anyone? Yes, or no?

 

[Charlie24]

First, please do not take the Lord's name in vain please.

Second, your words can lead a person to think that God's grace is a license to sin if they left off with your last post and moved on. You mentioned nothing about what you are saying now. But the thing is I believe you are Partial Hyper Grace (Although you are not Full head on Hyper Grace). But I do not see much a difference between the two. Both Christians groups justify some level of sin. Your group says you will sin again at some point as a fact. That is a justification to sin or an excuse to sin (That ends up turning God's grace into a license to sin).



As I told you before, Paul is the person in the parable who is going to be saved through fire while the Corinthians will be burned up and destroyed in the Lake of Fire on account of their justifying the sins of strife and envy. Paul says in Galatians 5:19-21 that those who commit the sins of strife and envy will not inherit the kingdom of God. The Corinthians will be destroyed like wood, hay, or stubble because they are justifying sin.



James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). Can a dead faith save anyone? Yes, or no?

Maybe one day, hopefully, the Spirit will reveal to you what Grace really is. You certainly have no concept of it at present.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Maybe one day, hopefully, the Spirit will reveal to you what Grace really is. You certainly have no concept of it at present.

Maybe one day you will hopefully come out from believing the lies of Protestant sayings on grace, and just read the Bible at face value with the help of God to understand true biblical grace.

For I guarantee you if you stopped listening to Protestants and you investigated all their sayings in light of ALL of the Bible, you will see that they are not telling you the whole truth.

 

[Charlie24]

Maybe one day you will hopefully come out from believing the lies of Protestant sayings on grace, and just read the Bible at face value with the help of God to understand true biblical grace.

Rom. 11:6

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

Go forth and findest thou what this meaneth. Thou shalt findest life everlasting.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Rom. 11:6

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

Go forth and findest thou what this meaneth. Thou shalt findest life everlasting.

You act like I never encountered Romans 11:6 before. If you were paying attention, I actually quoted Romans 11:6.
Romans chapter 9 through 11 is dealing with Israel who needed to be saved by God’s grace (When they had a works based type mentality).
The proof is Acts of the Apostles 15. Certain Jews were trying to deceive Gentile Christians into thinking they had to be circumcised to be initially saved. This would mean that if a person believed they had to first be circumcised to be saved, then that would be making circumcision (a work or the Law) the entrance gate and foundation of their faith (i.e. Works ALONE Salvationism). There would be no grace in this kind of Soteriology.

So seeing Paul is talking with the Jew in mind (Who believes in Works ALONE Salvationism), this is why he said if it is grace it is no more works and if it be of works it is no more grace. Paul is talking about how the Jews needed to be Initially saved by God’s grace. For if they were saved by God’s grace initially, it would be the work of God done through them and it would not be their own works exclusively. This is how Paul can say that is no more works because it is not man made works that were undoing the commands of God like the Jews were employing. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:10 that he labored more than other believers, not because of himself but because of the grace of God within him. This grace is Jesus Christ. For Jesus said you can do nothing without me (John 15:5).

 

[Charlie24]

You act like I never encountered Romans 11:6 before. If you were paying attention, I actually quoted Romans 11:6.
Romans chapter 9 through 11 is dealing with Israel who needed to be saved by God’s grace (When they had a works based type mentality).
The proof is Acts of the Apostles 15. Certain Jews were trying to deceive Gentile Christians into thinking they had to be circumcised to be initially saved. This would mean that if a person believed they had to first be circumcised to be saved, then that would be making circumcision (a work of the Law) the entrance gate and foundation of their faith (i.e. Works ALONE Salvationism). There would be no grace in this kind of Soteriology.

So seeing Paul is talking with the Jew in mind (Who believes in Works ALONE Salvationism), this is why he said if it is grace it is no more works and if it be of works it is no more grace. Paul is talking about how the Jews needed to be Initially saved by God’s grace. For if they were saved by God’s grace initially, it would be the work of God done through them and it would not be their own works exclusively. This is how Paul can say that is no more works because it is not man made works that were undoing the commands of God like the Jews were employing.

Paul also told the Gentile Galatians that they were not under the works of the Law. It will profit you nothing.

And it will profit you nothing, BH, with the idea you are preserving your salvation.

But there is nothing anyone can say to you! So you carry on with your works holding up your salvation and I will remain a sinner saved by Grace through faith alone, depending wholly on the Holy Spirit to lead me into good works for His Glory.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Be extra mindful and pray for the understanding when you read the apostle Paul. According to Peter his words are not always so easy to understand. In fact, many twist Paul’s words to their own destruction.

For Peter says of Paul’s writings,

“speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.” (2 Peter 3:16) (NLT).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul also told the Gentile Galatians that they were not under the works of the Law. It will profit you nothing.

Galatians 5:2 says if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
Then Paul says Christ has become of no effect to you, whoever of you are justified by the Law, you have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4).
Circumcision is a part of the Old Law or the 613 Laws of Moses.
It’s not a part of the Laws of Christ given to us by Jesus and His followers.

Romans 6:14 says that we are not under the Law. Again, this would be the Old Law. Romans 7:6 (the next chapter) says that we are to serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. The oldness of the letter is the Torah or the 613 Laws of Moses.

In Acts of the Apostles 15, at the Jerusalem council, the apostles made it clear that Gentile Christians did not have to be circumcised and to keep the Law of Moses. They only stressed on keeping certain commands, but they did not say to keep the whole Law of Moses.

Paul says he is not without the Law of God seeing he is under the Law(s) of Christ (See: 1 Corinthians 9:21).

So you fail to rightly divide.

And it will profit you nothing, BH, with the idea you are preserving your salvation.

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Corinthians 13:5).

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

Repeat after me in what the Bible says:

“I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day…” (2 Timothy 4:7-8).

Notice the word “I” in the passage.
It appears three times.

I have fought a good fight.
I have finished my course.
I have kept the faith.

Henceforth (Therefore), there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness.

This plays into 1 Timothy 6:12 that says:

“Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life,…” (1 Timothy 6:12).

But there is nothing anyone can say to you! So you carry on with your works holding up your salvation and I will remain a sinner saved by Grace through faith alone, depending wholly on the Holy Spirit to lead me into good works for His Glory.

There is nothing anyone can stay to you! So you carry on with your sin and till be saved type salvation and I will remain a believer in God’s grace in my Initial Salvation, and Foundational Salvation, and I will remain a believer in Sanctification by the Spirit guiding me to live a truly holy life in my Continued Salvation according to the Bible for His real glory. For you cannot glorify God by being a sinner. Good works glorify God. Not sin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I will remain a sinner saved by Grace through faith alone,

And the cat is out of the bag. You said here that you will remain a sinner saved by God’s grace. Meaning, that argument you made before on how grace is not a license to sin (in post #403) is just baloney or an illusion.

This is not the first time I have caught Protestants contradicting themselves on this point before. This is why I cannot take Protestantism seriously. You guys keep contradicting yourselves by your Protestant sayings or your own pet mantras.

The thing is that you will not find anywhere in the Bible that you will remain a sinner saved by God’s grace. Nowhere in the Bible does it even say this anywhere.

 

[Charlie24]

And the cat is out of the bag. You said here that you will remain a sinner saved by God’s grace. Meaning, that argument you made before on how grace is not a license to sin (in post #403) is just baloney or an illusion.

This is not the first time I have caught Protestants contradicting themselves on this point before. This is why I cannot take Protestantism seriously. You guys keep contradicting yourselves by your Protestant sayings or your own pet mantras.

The thing is that you will not find anywhere in the Bible that you will remain a sinner saved by God’s grace. Nowhere in the Bible does it even say this anywhere.

In reality I am a sinner, for no one is without sin. But in the eyes of God, by faith in His Son, I am righteous, sinless, and perfect in Christ! Salvation is a free gift to one who believes even though he doesn't deserve it. But you can't understand that! You have to go about earning, thereby making void the free gift.

I hope, BH, you are not of the sort that believes he has no sin, you have, or will become perfect in this life.

Christians make mistakes, it's called sin in the eyes of God, but forgiven when we confess. That is not a license to sin, it's the reality of fallen man even though he is saved.

One who see's Grace by faith as a license to sin is far from that Grace.

 

[Charlie24]

I don't deserve the salvation I was given. God should take my life and confine me in Hell, and I would deserve it!

I have nothing to hope in, but the promises of God that He will have mercy on me if trust in Him and follow after Him.

I'm not like you, BH, I don't claim my works to fall back on, I claim guilty as charged and throw myself at the mercy of God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I noticed you left off "as He is righteous."

We were addressing the point about the obedient person already being righteous as opposed to becoming righteous by being obedient.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I know that we who are born again WILL walk in the light.

Did John say it like that?

No. John said....IF we walk in the light.

If we walk in the light we show that we are born again.
What's so hard to understand about that?

It's a condition for even him. John does not know if he will continue to walk in the light and so he uses the words IF and WE.

It's a condition to know if the person is born again. That is the point he is addressing. Born again people walk in the light. People who are not born again do not. Discerning true believers from fake ones is the context of the passage. He is warning them about fake believers. It's not a passage about how to be saved after you are saved.

 

[mailmandan]

..So it does matter. If you are relying on your righteous performance to qualify you to be saved you are living in the works gospel that Paul says will condemn you, not save you. Works are only the evidence that you are born again/saved. Not the way you become born again/saved.

Amen and well said! It absolutely does matter. Living and trusting in a "works gospel" does bring condemnation. (Galatians 1:6-9) The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

The gospel is a message of grace that is to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.

In 2 Corinthians 4:3-4, the apostle Paul clearly states that if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. Sadly, there are many people who trust in a "different" gospel of "works righteousness" and remain in unbelief.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Galatians 6:7-8
“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.”

And so when I do righteous work I reap everlasting life because I have made God indebted to me to give me eternal life. That's what you're saying.

 

[mailmandan]

If we walk in the light we show that we are born again.
What's so hard to understand about that?

It's a condition to know if the person is born again. That is the point he is addressing. Born again people walk in the light. People who are not born again do not. Discerning true believers from fake ones is the context of the passage. He is warning them about fake believers. It's not a passage about how to be saved after you are saved.

Amen and well said once again! 1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God (those who are born again) walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other. We show our position by our walk.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 11, we read - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that walks in darkness, hates his brother is associated with children of the devil.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Protestant Version of This Verse:

“There is no sowing or reaping you need to worry about. The born again will always sow to the Spirit and will reap everlasting life. Only unbelievers or fake believers will sow to the flesh and reap corruption.”
(Galatians 6:7-8 Imaginary Protestant Influenced Translation).

With the exception of "there is no sowing or reaping you need to worry about", Protestants say this because John makes it quite clear that born again people can not live in sin. They can't because they have God's seed within them:

"9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9
​

The person who remains in their old lifestyle of sin is not born again. They're not a saved person living in sin. John says that can't happen. You would have to become un-saved, un-born again to live in the sin God delivered you from.