The post-trib rapture will occur on the day that Jesus will come "to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe"

[Spiritual Israelite]

Thank you.

I’ve stated my standing, and am secure in Christ…no clue what your standing is.

What "standing" are you talking about here? Are you talking about my doctrinal standing? What don't you understand about what I've said about what I believe? Just ask and I'll clarify it. I obviously have said I believe in a post-trib rapture in contrast to your belief in a pre-trib rapture. That's not hard to understand, right? And I believe that Jesus will take vengeance on all believers when He returns and that we will be gathered to Him on that same day. Is there anything hard to understand about that, regardless of whether you agree or not?

 

[Taken]

What "standing" are you talking about here? Are you talking about my doctrinal standing? What don't you understand about what I've said about what I believe? Just ask and I'll clarify it. I obviously have said I believe in a post-trib rapture in contrast to your belief in a pre-trib rapture. That's not hard to understand, right? And I believe that Jesus will take vengeance on all believers when He returns and that we will be gathered to Him on that same day. Is there anything hard to understand about that, regardless of whether you agree or not?

According to You.
Are You in Christ?
If, yes…
Why? How?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

According to You.

LOL. Yes, according to me. And you have done nothing to refute what I believe. I'm showing you what scripture indicates. Your beliefs don't line up with what is written in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

Are You in Christ?

Yes. Why do you ask?

If, yes…
Why? How?

Because I trust in Him as my personal Lord and Savior. I belong to Him and He dwells in me. Are you in Christ?

 

[Taken]

Because I trust in Him as my personal Lord and Savior. I belong to Him and He dwells in me. Are you in Christ?

Vague, How & Why

Yes. Why do you ask?

For your perspective and because you said you would clarify.

Me…
Why?
Yes…”in Christ” Because He Offered;
*Forgiveness, for having Had not Believed,
*Salvation of my soul,
*Quickening of my spirit,
*Covering, Cleansing, Forgetting, Justifying, Sanctification, Redemption, Glorifying and Sealing of my body.
*To Dwell in me.
*For Me Dwell in Him.
*To Dwell with me Forever.
*To Provide an Escape and Deliverance for me from Tribulations and Wrath to be Sent Down from Heaven, upon this World.

How?
IF…I chose to:
*To Heartfully Believe in Him,
*Confess my Heartful Belief in Him, to Him.
*To Repent for having Had not Believed.
*To Lay down my bodily Life unto Death, with Him.

Result.
Because, I did so Choose, to accomplish What He Required.
*I am MADE prepared, by the Authority and Power of God and Trust He is True and Faithful and Shall Call me up to Meet Him in The Clouds, Before God Signals the Next Great Tribulations upon this World and its inhabitants to commence.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Vague, How & Why

Buddy, I'm not interested in your games. This is a place to talk about end times doctrine, not a place for you to question whether people are in Christ or not. Understand?

For your perspective and because you said you would clarify.

I said I would clarify my interpretation of 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 if you wanted. It appears that you instead want me to prove to you that I'm in Christ, which I don't need to do for anyone. I know that I am regardless of what you think. But, that has nothing to do with how 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 should be interpreted.

 

[Taken]

Buddy, I'm not interested in your games.

I get, you hold your interest in playing the “subjective” game of Scriptural interpretation.

This is a place to talk about end times doctrine, not a place for you to question whether people are in Christ or not. Understand?

Understand?
Sure. You want to debate interpretations, regardless of knowing a man’s standing.

I said I would clarify my interpretation of 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 if you wanted. It appears that you instead want me to prove to you that I'm in Christ, which I don't need to do for anyone. I know that I am regardless of what you think. But, that has nothing to do with how 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 should be interpreted.

Seemingly “to you” How The Letters to The Church at Thelessalonia, “should” be interpreted “is by you”… regardless if anyone knows your “Standing”, or how you arrived at your “standing”.

My view is, Thessalonia was a fairly large ancient city…
And like any city, historical or modern, there are Divisions…
* Regarding Beliefs…
* AND, much, “Wonderings”, of new Converts in Christ.

Paul HAD physically preached in Thessalonia.
After Paul physically Left…
The “Converts IN Christ”, had “misunderstandings and wonderings”…

* They Believed…”their Conversion IN Christ…was to be Understood as the Same Day of Christs “coming Return” “to Earth”.
* And Because of “THAT” misunderstanding”
…
* They were “bewildered”, How and Why they were STILL suffering “persecutions”, From “nay-sayers”
…
* Paul’s Letters, to the Church, To those IN Christ, were to Comfort them…
*Jesus HAD Not Return to Earth…yet HE was With and IN “them,” regardless of what the “nay-sayers…Say or Do.

 

[Luther7]

I'm referring to this verse...

2 Thessalonians 1:10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

It should be obvious that the day when Jesus comes "to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe" is the day when we will be caught up to Him to meet Him in the air. What other day would He come "to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe"?

Only doctrinal bias could prevent someone from acknowledging that 2 Thessalonians 1:10 describes something that will occur on the same day that the rapture (gathering and catching up of the church to meet Jesus in the air) occurs. And doctrinal bias is the reason that pre-trib rapture adherents don't acknowledge this.

Here is what else Paul said will happen on that same day when Jesus comes "to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe".

2 Thessalonians 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

On that same day when Jesus comes "with His mighty angels" and is "glorified in His saints and...admired among all those who believe", Jesus will be "in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ".

I assume that pre-tribs would agree with post-tribs that Jesus will be "taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" after the tribulation. But, unlike post-tribs, they disagree that we will be gathered and caught up to meet Jesus in the air on that same day. But, it seems clear to me that the time when Jesus comes "to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe" is the same time when we will be caught up to meet Him in the air after which "we shall always be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

Surely, Jesus will "be glorified in His saints and admired among all those who believe" when we meet Him. How could anyone deny that? When else would that happen? Paul taught that will happen on the same day that Jesus takes vengeance on unbelievers, not 3.5 or 7 years (or however long) before that, as pretribs believe.

It's clear to me that what Paul describes in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 is the same event that he describes in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:3. Pre-tribs (and mid-tribs and anyone else who isn't post-trib) miss that the rapture and the wrath of Christ are part of the same event. Unfortunately, an inappropriate chapter break was made after 1 Thessalonians 4:18 causing some people to think that Paul starts describing a separate event from what he described in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 starting in 1 Thessalonians 5, but the reality is that in 1 Thess 5 he starts talking about a different aspect (wrath against unbelievers) of the same event he had been talking about just before that (the second coming of Christ).

So, I'd like to see what pretribs have to say about this. Do you think there is any argument for saying that Jesus will not "be glorified in His saints and...be admired among all those who believe" when we meet Him in the air (when the rapture occurs) and that this will happen several years later instead? If so, please explain how that could be the case.

Another question I have for pretribs is this: do you think you would believe that 2 Thessalonians 1:10 is not referring to the day of the rapture if you just read that verse without seeing the verses that precede it that refer to the wrath of Christ? Answer honestly.

There wouldn't be all of this confusion had it not been for John Darby, Cyrus Scofield and his Zionist support, both religiously and financially.
Throughout church history, the last day was always understood to be just that.... the last day.

 

[Luther7]

In 2nd Thessalonians 1:10, Paul isn't referring to multiple days when Jesus comes "to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe". He refers specifically to "that day" which is the same day when Jesus will be revealed in flaming fire from heaven with His angels to take vengeance on all of those who do not believe.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

As for 2 Thessalonians 2:12, the strong delusion is something God sends to those who don't believe the gospel so that they would be saved. So, the strong delusion is in relation to people not believing the gospel unto salvation and is not in relation to people having an incorrect understanding of end times doctrine.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11 KJV
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

I don't know about that. It looks like people in the churches are going to be under strong delusion about the Antichrist that they are worshiping because they're not saved. And actually most churches today are under the influence of the Antichrist anyway.

 

[Scott Downey]

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11 KJV
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

I don't know about that. It looks like people in the churches are going to be under strong delusion about the Antichrist that they are worshiping because they're not saved. And actually most churches today are under the influence of the Antichrist anyway.

God saves us as individuals, not churches. Salvation is always personal.

Like this, Christ does not recognize them.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 25 - New King James Version

The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins - “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise...

www.biblegateway.com

“Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom [a]is coming; go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour [b]in which the Son of Man is coming.


Luke 13

22 And He went through the cities and villages, teaching and journeying toward Jerusalem.

23 Then said one unto Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?” And He said unto them,

24 “Strive to enter in at the strait gate, for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in and shall not be able.

25 When once the master of the house is risen up and hath shut the door, and ye begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open unto us,’ and He shall answer and say unto you, ‘I know you not from whence ye are,’

26 then shall ye begin to say, ‘We have eaten and drunk in Thy presence, and Thou hast taught in our streets.’

27 But He shall say, ‘I tell you, I know you not from whence ye are. Depart from Me, all ye workers of iniquity.’

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth when ye shall see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the Kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

29 And they shall come from the east and from the west, and from the north and from the south, and shall sit down in the Kingdom of God.

30 And behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.”