The Proof That Trees Have Souls

[TopherNelson]

David,

I don't care what ever teaching you go by if it isn't from God.

These words are not wise because I quoted words from Scripture and you disagree with because adhere to a doctrine that disagrees with them. That could well mean you disagree with God. You should instead test your own teachings.

You are also incorrect that "nephesh" means "life" though it can be translated that way. It's short definition according to Strong's is "soul".

"Ruach", which short definition is "spirit" is also used with animals in Ecclesiastes 3:21. I though was calling the "image and likeness of God" Spiritual.

What's the difference between the soul, spirit, and body?

 

[rockytopva]

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

I believe that the natural man is our flesh, and needs fed for us to grow.
I believe that the mental man is our mind, and needs fed with knowledge for us to grow.
I believe that the spiritual man is our soul. In which the Holy Spirit is a great source of spiritual E/c2 for the soul.

The Holy Spirit edifies our soul.

 

[kerwin]

What's the difference between the soul, spirit, and body?

The body is a physical creation just like the earth it was made from.
The soul is a soulish creation and Scripture uses it as well as flesh to indicate the bestial nature of fallen humanity. It also positive meaning as well but I am not remembering them off hand. It is the part of us that is the basic "I".
The spirit is a more generic word but in regard to a spiritual creation it is used to speak of the nature of man that was originally created in the image and likeness of God.

All three are covered much better in Hebrew Lexicon though some definitions of all words in Lexicons, as in works of humanity, are biased or vague.

Translating "nephesh" to soul in a number of places instead of the alternatives favored by translators in general could possibly aid us to understand Scripture better.

I think the sum is that trees have no mental state and so are physical creation, animal have self awareness and so are revealed to be soulish, and humanity has a higher mental state that allows us to understand more abstract forms such as good and evil. Even then we are limited to some extent but that may be due to our fallen natures.

 

[OzSpen]

What's the difference between the soul, spirit, and body?

David,

You'll get a divergence of Christian views on the soul-spirit issue. The following is a snippet of my understanding.

Obviously, the body refers to human flesh. In 1 Cor 15:39 (ESV) it is recorded, "For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish".

The flesh also can have another meaning that is parallel to the sin nature (see Rom 5:18-25; Gal 5:17; 1 Pet 2:11).

The words “soul” and “spirit” can be used interchangeably.

In John 12:27, Jesus said, “Now is my soul (psuche) troubled”, while in a similar context in the next chapter, it is stated, “Jesus was troubled in his spirit (pneuma) [John 13:21]” This hardly means that Jesus’ “life force” (breath) was troubled.

• At death, the “soul” or “spirit” departs.

When Rachel died, the Bible records: “Her soul (nephesh) was departing [she had died]” (Gen. 35:18), but Eccl. 12:7 records that at death, “the spirit (ruach) returns to God who gave it.” This could not mean that one’s “life force” was returning to God.

• A human being is said to consist of either “body and soul” or “body and spirit.”

In Matt. 10: 28, we read, “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul (psuche). Rather fear him who can destroy both soul (psuche) and body in hell” (ESV). It seems clear from this verse that “soul” refers to the part of the person that lives beyond death. If the “soul” was only a “life force”, it could be killed. That’s not what Jesus said. His authoritative view was that the “soul” cannot be killed. It cannot die.

But when Paul wants to deliver an erring brother over to Satan, he said that it was “for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit (pneuma) may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus” (1 Cor. 5:5).

Therefore, in both OT and NT, “soul” and “spirit” can be used as synonymous terms for the unseen part of the human being.
I have more details in my article, What’s the difference between soul and spirit?

Oz

 

[kerwin]

OzSpan,

I find spirit the hardest of the three to understand as it is used to speak of the spiritual aspects of a human and of the character[?] of a human .

There is a teaching among the Jews that seems to be verified by Scripture that there are three spiritual aspects of humanity and they are the breath of life, the spirit, and the soul.

Sometimes the one of those parts is called spirit because they of the spiritual side of humanity. From what I can understand the breath of life returns to God who gave it and the soul descends to Sheol/Hades after death. I am not sure what happens to the spirit but I think it is bound to the soul and so also descends to Sheol/Hades.

Ecclesiastes 12:7Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The word "God who gave it" hearkens to the breath of life that God gave and not the living soul Humanity became.


Psalm 49:15Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave:
for he shall receive me. Selah.


Note: character is a rough guess of what the spirit is. I am fairly sure there is more to it but I lack both words and knowledge to express a better understanding.
Note: The AV of the KJV is not the best translation to use when discussing Sheol/Hades as the translators religion influenced their choice of translations. The American Standard Versions covers such topics better.

 

[ezekiel]

13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it. - Mark aa

Jesus answered and said unto it.... In order for Christ to have answered the tree first had to have talked to Christ.

When God speaks of tree's He is speaking of nations, even the tree of life that is the Kingdom of Heaven, is at hand. Lets look at the above. When God looked at Israel a far off with many people He wanted to see many people of the Spirit on it but when he came close He sees no people of the Most High there. God then decides that He will cut down that nation and give it to another two, the two witnesses (olive tree) that we see in the book of Revelations.

 

[OzSpen]

When God speaks of tree's He is speaking of nations, even the tree of life that is the Kingdom of Heaven, is at hand. Lets look at the above. When God looked at Israel a far off with many people He wanted to see many people of the Spirit on it but when he came close He sees no people of the Most High there. God then decides that He will cut down that nation and give it to another two, the two witnesses (olive tree) that we see in the book of Revelations.

ezekiel,

That's your allegorical invention of what you want the content to be. Where in the text does it state what you have concluded here?

Oz

 

[Josho]

@David Remember God has used a donkey to speak to a man before, he can do it again, he could use a dog to speak to a man if he wanted to as well.

@ezekiel The fig tree that Jesus talks about there in Mark 11:13 is an actual physical fig tree, Jesus saw a fig tree from a far, and went up to see whether if it had any fruit on it or not, he could not find any fruit, and he said to the fig tree "Let no men eat fruit from you ever again." The fig tree withered and died, and his disciples were amazed. But there is also a parable about a fig tree, not to be confused with the physical fig tree that withered away, which you are getting mixed up with.

The Fig tree that withered away

Mark 11:13-14
13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it.
Mark 11:20
20 In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 21 Peter remembered and said to Jesus, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!”

The Parable of the Fig Tree
Luke 13:6-9
6 And he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. 7 And he said to the vinedresser, ‘Look, for three years now I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down. Why should it use up the ground?’8 And he answered him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and put on manure. 9 Then if it should bear fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.’”

So the 1st one is real, the 2nd one is a parable, 2 different stories.

 

[ezekiel]

Yes it is, and I will not sway left or right of it.

6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Moreover

12 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore shall they fall among them that fall: in the time of their visitation they shall be cast down, saith the Lord.
13 I will surely consume them, saith the Lord: there shall be no grapes on the vine, nor figs on the fig tree, and the leaf shall fade; and the things that I have given them shall pass away from them.

Moreover

24 The Lord shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the Lord, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon.
2 One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.
3 Then said the Lord unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.
4 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
5 Thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good.
6 For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up.

Besides what would God concern Himself so much with a tree as you see it. At any time can out of nothing bring forth a fruit.

 

[ezekiel]

Moreover not the first time God cuts down a tree, but look it the manner it is done here. From God to a Holy One to the Watcher of this planet.


23 And whereas the king saw a watcher and an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him;

These trees were in Eden, but you may not think more then one nation was in Eden.Talking about trees or nations you decide. This tree burns in hell.


16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
17 They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
18 To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord God.

I don't think its trees God is talking about.

 

[Born_Again]

Moreover not the first time God cuts down a tree, but look it the manner it is done here. From God to a Holy One to the Watcher of this planet.


23 And whereas the king saw a watcher and an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him;

These trees were in Eden, but you may not think more then one nation was in Eden.Talking about trees or nations you decide. This tree burns in hell.


16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
17 They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
18 To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord God.

I don't think its trees God is talking about.

Trees are used to signify a number of things through out the bible. Actual trees, people, and nations.

The first one you mentioned was Nebuchadnezzar in a dream.

The second one was Pharaoh being compared to Assyria which was compared to a cedar tree.

 

[ezekiel]

Yes I agree. Different trees speaks off different types and the context in how they are used all changes that meaning. Grass is the same, people are as grass. Knowing the old books gives understand to the new. Their are not a tree made of wood that we can eat and live forever but a tree of life we can eat but yet do we eat, the word is eat but follow is the meaning. Also did not Israel also wither away yes it did God told them and many did not hear. Every word out of the mouth of God is prophecies for the Spirit of God is this.

 

[ezekiel]

Yet gleaning grapes shall be left in it, as the shaking of an olive tree, two or three berries in the top of the uppermost bough, four or five in the outmost fruitful branches thereof, saith the Lord God of Israel.

Understanding how God speaks gives us understanding on what He says in other areas and how they came to pass. God may love grapes as we see it , but its not what He means. Just like the Two Olive Tree's in Revelations. If I was to say God is going to shake US and GB and Her Branches and not much will be left but the meek. Then you may say its two people? If we can't get over the tree thing how can more be learned.

 

[Taken]

The Proof That Trees Have Souls

Disagree.

Trees do not have souls.

Souls are God breathed Life that causes created things to begin Functioning...

Created Form / is a Body
Body's Life...Is it's Blood
Blood flow causes heart to beat.
Beating heart, natural life begins and is maintained.

A beating heart does not Activate or Cause the body's senses to begin functioning.

Created BODY/ Function Activated By Gods BREATH blown into the nostrils of a formed Body.

Eyes to see
Ears to hear
Noses to smell
Mouth/ Tongue to taste
Flesh to feel

This ^ applies to Earthly men and Earthly animals.

This does not Apply to Earthly Trees.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

8 The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive tree, Reign thou over us.
9 But the olive tree said unto them, Should I leave my fatness, wherewith by me they honour God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?
10 And the trees said to the fig tree, [/B] Come [/B] thou, and reign over us.
11 But the fig tree said unto them, Should I forsake my sweetness, and my good fruit, and go to be promoted over the trees?
12 Then said the trees unto the vine, Come thou, and reign over us.
13 And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?
14 Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us.
15 And the bramble said unto the trees, If in truth ye anoint me king over you, then come and put your trust in my shadow: and if not, let fire come out of the bramble, and devour the cedars of Lebanon. - Judges 9

Remember:
An invisible God IS the ultimate Teacher of His creations, who can neither See, Hear, Smell, Taste, or Touch God.

However men Can see Trees.

God uses what men Can See, as comparative methods to teach men about Himself.

The OLIVE Tree- repeatedly in Scripture is revealed as honorable to God, and the oil of the Olive for a gladness to men. An outward visible love toward God.
Pss 45:7

The FIG Tree- repeatedly in Scripture is the inward goodness of a man toward the Lord.
Joel 2:22

The Vine- Is the Spiritual connection and Truth connection...between
1) an actual Tree and is fruit
2) a Natural man and his Spirit God John 15:5

The Bramble- a wild, rough, prickly shrub.

BOOK of Judges 9... is depicting a people asking for a ruler over them...

Notice the language and the WHAT the people are ASKING...

Of those likened to the olive tree; of the fig tree...the request was for them to "Leave their place and Come Among Them".

Scripture teaches for MAN to do the Leaving and Come unto the Lord.

The Brambles, accepted the peoples request for its leadership, with the Caveat, the People would be consenting TO BE, under his Shadow. (shadows do not cast Light)

The Lesson is not about:
Trees being People,
Or
Trees haveing Souls,
But rather;
The Lesson Is About:
A man Choosing to GO Toward what Is Spiritual, truth, trust, Light, good, beneficial, gladness, honorable, lasting.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[SovereignGrace]

What an odd thread with odd beliefs. Trees having souls? Sap crying out to God?

 

[Davy]

Nothing wrong with appreciating God's creation. But we are to worship God, not worship His creation.

Even as Apostle Paul showed in Romans 8, today's creation God placed in a state of vanity, in bondage of corruption. It is not perfect today, but imperfect. So the Pantheist who worships God's creation with thinking it is an example of perfectness delude themselves.

Pantheism is what this kind of creation worship is. It was a belief by primitive uncivilized tribes who lived in the wilderness. The Golden Bough by James Frazer reveals a lot of this kind of stuff. It may seem innocent to hug a tree, but it's really not.

 

[A_Man]

12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it. - Mark 11

Trees do not breathe.

 

[OzSpen]

Trees do not breathe.

I do not believe trees have souls but trees engage in a respiration process.

 

[farouk]

I do not believe trees have souls but trees engage in a respiration process.

I do agree with both parts of your statement, @OzSpen ...