aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Without religion there is no doctrine, ritual, dogma, theology, methods of exegesis, Bible, or even language to us to describe God or His Will.
The Queen Of Heaven Is A Devil!
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We can have religion without God and we can have God without religion, Without religion I stil have Jesus, God the holy Spirit and salvation. Even witout teh Bible Id still have God.aspen said:
In all His Love
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Without religion we end up with an unknowable God we cannot describe, who is less defined at the god of Transcendentalsm.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
POM - without religion you would not know anything the Trinity or who personage are. You wouldn't even know there names
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Trying to relate to God without religion is like tryimg to relate to an alien that just arrives on earth.....,actually it is worse - at least you could sense the alien
And Jesus came and walked among men, as He does now without the religion, you know because of what Christ did, we have access to God, dont need religion for that, than there where those who received teh Holy gost, without religion, so teh desicples went to baptise them.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Pom you just describe a religious event and a religious response, while denying the need for religion.
It would be like climbing mt everest with an oxygen tank and ripping the tank as soon as you reach the top, while declaring, "l made it!! Don't need oxygen anymore!"
It would be like climbing mt everest with an oxygen tank and ripping the tank as soon as you reach the top, while declaring, "l made it!! Don't need oxygen anymore!"
Why Aspen are you so afraid of loosing you religion, it wont savew you, no religin can. Religion is mans answer to teh problem of talking to God. And Jesus sais 'whn I return will I find faith upon the earth". the answer is yes but lots more religion.
Folks, there is nothing wrong in being zealous. But zeal without a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus, in the person of the Holy Spirit, is a self-destructive religion.
Please let's be zealous according to knowledge as the Apostle Paul counseled by the Holy Spirit. Please let's walk in the Spirit.
Please let's be zealous according to knowledge as the Apostle Paul counseled by the Holy Spirit. Please let's walk in the Spirit.
I wasn't against religion, I know the faith is a religion.aspen said:
People who don't want out to be called that are doing so they won't appear as a religious loon.
The mother in Revelation is in reference to both Israel, and symbolically to Jesus Christ. Israel is symbolically referred to as Gods firstborn son in Exodus as a prophecy of the coming messiah. So these verses are referring to the nation of Israel as the woman that flees to the wilderness, the whore that rides the beast in Revelation 17 is also Israel. There is no actual queen of heaven. We know Satan wants Gods throne, so maybe this "queen of heaven" business is simply God taking a jab at Satan by calling him a wannabe in drag, or queer angel. LOLJimParker said:"There must be a Queen" is pretty lame.
Try scripture:
Rev 12:1-2 And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery.
Rev 12:5 she brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,
The child who will rule the nations with a rod of iron and who was caught up to heaven is Jesus.
The mother of Jesus is Mary.
A crown indicates that she is a queen.
Rev 12:17 Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus.
The rest of her offspring are the Church.
So give you mother the respect she is due; not worship, but respect, honor, and reverence.
Hi mjrhealth. Good to see you again.
Someone said, "religion is our oxygen". Our oxygen is not religion. The living, Lord Jesus Christ, by His indwelling Spirit is our oxygen, LIFE. And that makes it very personal, POM. Genuine Christianity, requires the presence and function of the living Lord Jesus. He is the vital essence of a genuine Christian's walk. Religion does not require the presence of God and God does not require religion. And if Jesus Christ did not need what the religious were selling, then you don't need it, either. This is the freedom that Christ brings and it also brings a lot of enmity from religious folk. They want you accountable to them!!
Throughout the NT there is a continuous explanation (for those who are not willfully ignoring it) of the difference between Christianity and religion. Makes you wonder why this has not been made more apparent to Christians in order that they may be more discerning and stop equating both Christianity and religion as synonymous. The interpretation of the NT scriptures have been done primarily by commentators and "theologians" who are immersed in "Christian religion?" Their very livelihood is on the line as "religious interpreters". I think they would be very hesitant to expose their own religious methods even if they saw that such practices were being exposed in the Bible. What we have today in many commentaries and new Bible versions is a tragic history of misinterpretation.
Theologians and other religious people have successfully tied people to their brand of religion which in essence ties them to a belief system and binds them their brand of moral rules and regulations. These are all tied to their particular ecclesiastical institution.
This is why Evangelism has moved slowly throughout the world the last two thousand years and now has almost come to a dead stop. The early church proclaimed the gospel by contrasting the grace of God in Jesus Christ with the various belief-systems of religion in their day. They did not propose that they have a better "religion" than others do. They exposed the self-serving practices of religions by manifesting and explaining God's desire to restore all men in Jesus Christ. They confronted selfish inequities of religion with the love of God in Christ. Do you see anyone doing this today? Standing up to religion and calling out the hypocrisy and the false gospels of works? Do you see anyone standing up with the pure scriptures and exposing the spiritual oppression of men over other men?
This is why evangelism is mostly not effective anymore. We are trying to get people to exchange their belief-system for our belief-system, their religion for our religion. It is not about the living Lord Jesus Christ anymore, it is about a theological system.
Jesus Christ is not a belief-system, a set of rules or regulations, a moral construct, a book religion, an "ism", or a theology. Men have taken the Word of God and codifed it into a belief-system to the point where Christ is not needed, only your willingness to submit to men and their belief system.
Genuine Christianity is Christ. You need to get back to this. The worldly, fallen away "Christian" church is being assimilated into other "religions" and assimilating other "religions" into itself.
Genuine Christians need to allow the resurrection-life of the living Lord Jesus to be "manifested in their mortal bodies" (II Cor_4:10-11). Now is the time to be unashamed and affirm Christ in the face of lifeless, fallacious religion.
Jesus did it, and the early church did it!! Why aren't we walking as He walked?
Axehead
Someone said, "religion is our oxygen". Our oxygen is not religion. The living, Lord Jesus Christ, by His indwelling Spirit is our oxygen, LIFE. And that makes it very personal, POM. Genuine Christianity, requires the presence and function of the living Lord Jesus. He is the vital essence of a genuine Christian's walk. Religion does not require the presence of God and God does not require religion. And if Jesus Christ did not need what the religious were selling, then you don't need it, either. This is the freedom that Christ brings and it also brings a lot of enmity from religious folk. They want you accountable to them!!
Throughout the NT there is a continuous explanation (for those who are not willfully ignoring it) of the difference between Christianity and religion. Makes you wonder why this has not been made more apparent to Christians in order that they may be more discerning and stop equating both Christianity and religion as synonymous. The interpretation of the NT scriptures have been done primarily by commentators and "theologians" who are immersed in "Christian religion?" Their very livelihood is on the line as "religious interpreters". I think they would be very hesitant to expose their own religious methods even if they saw that such practices were being exposed in the Bible. What we have today in many commentaries and new Bible versions is a tragic history of misinterpretation.
Theologians and other religious people have successfully tied people to their brand of religion which in essence ties them to a belief system and binds them their brand of moral rules and regulations. These are all tied to their particular ecclesiastical institution.
This is why Evangelism has moved slowly throughout the world the last two thousand years and now has almost come to a dead stop. The early church proclaimed the gospel by contrasting the grace of God in Jesus Christ with the various belief-systems of religion in their day. They did not propose that they have a better "religion" than others do. They exposed the self-serving practices of religions by manifesting and explaining God's desire to restore all men in Jesus Christ. They confronted selfish inequities of religion with the love of God in Christ. Do you see anyone doing this today? Standing up to religion and calling out the hypocrisy and the false gospels of works? Do you see anyone standing up with the pure scriptures and exposing the spiritual oppression of men over other men?
This is why evangelism is mostly not effective anymore. We are trying to get people to exchange their belief-system for our belief-system, their religion for our religion. It is not about the living Lord Jesus Christ anymore, it is about a theological system.
Jesus Christ is not a belief-system, a set of rules or regulations, a moral construct, a book religion, an "ism", or a theology. Men have taken the Word of God and codifed it into a belief-system to the point where Christ is not needed, only your willingness to submit to men and their belief system.
Genuine Christianity is Christ. You need to get back to this. The worldly, fallen away "Christian" church is being assimilated into other "religions" and assimilating other "religions" into itself.
Genuine Christians need to allow the resurrection-life of the living Lord Jesus to be "manifested in their mortal bodies" (II Cor_4:10-11). Now is the time to be unashamed and affirm Christ in the face of lifeless, fallacious religion.
Jesus did it, and the early church did it!! Why aren't we walking as He walked?
Axehead
Again Axehead A religion is a worship of a deity or supernatural being.
If you do not worship Jesus, then you're right, it is NOT a religion.
But IF you do, then it is a religion.
It is NOT a terrible word just because humans make it that way.
And again, it is NOT a personal relationship, because it means you would HAVE to have personally met Jesus. It is not scriptural and is an invention to weave humanist and feminine ideas into
evangelical doctrines.
We don't have Jesus over on Saturdays for dinner where we discuss the dealings of the day, yes he brings some nice flatbread but the wine is a bit watery tasting, after that we go to pub and throw some darts and drink a couple of pints.
He is OUR KING not our mate.
If you do not worship Jesus, then you're right, it is NOT a religion.
But IF you do, then it is a religion.
It is NOT a terrible word just because humans make it that way.
And again, it is NOT a personal relationship, because it means you would HAVE to have personally met Jesus. It is not scriptural and is an invention to weave humanist and feminine ideas into
evangelical doctrines.
We don't have Jesus over on Saturdays for dinner where we discuss the dealings of the day, yes he brings some nice flatbread but the wine is a bit watery tasting, after that we go to pub and throw some darts and drink a couple of pints.
He is OUR KING not our mate.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Mjr - religion is the practice of relating to God -losing it would be like losing the ability to speak a second language. No one said religion saves you, however a relationship with God does and without being able to speak or knowing who you are talking to makes it difficult to have a real relationship. A relationship with God, without religion is like my relationship with my grandfather who died in WWII.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
If you are a Christian you will perform the works according to your belief. If you see a man destitute, your faith commands you to assist him, to treat others as Jesus would treat them. In context, this is what the text is saying, not a works based salvation.aspen said:
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
James tells us that faith is dead without works and works is dead without faith. Luther's overreaction to Catholicism's teaching on works, lead him to include words to scripture like 'faith alone' in order to downplay the need for participation in our salvation process. If we do not practice love, we will never be transformed into lovers, which is salvation. God gives us the ticket, but we have to get on the plane, so to speak. And as far as boasting about earning salvation - it really only makes sense for people who already believe they are special - Jews/people of the promise and Christians who value tribalism over practicing their sanctification by loving others.BlackManINC said:
Also BM, works can lead to faith. Fake it til you make it, is a true saying.
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