The Queen Of Heaven Is A Devil!

[BlackManINC]

James tells us that faith is dead without works and works is dead without faith. Luther's overreaction to Catholicism's teaching on works, lead him to include words to scripture like 'faith alone' in order to downplay the need for participation in our salvation process. If we do not practice love, we will never be transformed into lovers, which is salvation. God gives us the ticket, but we have to get on the plane, so to speak. And as far as boasting about earning salvation - it really only makes sense for people who already believe they are special - Jews/people of the promise and Christians who value tribalism over practicing their sanctification by loving others.
Also BM, works can lead to faith. Fake it til you make it, is a true saying.

Yes Jesus says believe in him and you'll be saved, you say "do". Works can lead to faith, but it cannot be used to justify your ticket to salvation. My faith is my ticket, not my works, as your works are nothing but filthy rags to God whether you believe in him or not. Know why? Its because we ARE filthy rags, dirt bags who deserve to get their face stomped in by the Lord.

 

[JimParker]

Also the reason faith is dead without works and vise versa is because they cannot be separated.

Absolutely.

I have noticed that people tend to confuse the concepts of salvation by works (i.e.: “earning salvation“) and the fact that works are necessary for salvation.

Hebr 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

and

James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Our good works do not “earn” us anything because we were “created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. “ (Eph 2:10) Good works are what we’re supposed to be doing; that’s what God designed us to do.

Luke 17:10 So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, “We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.”

Paul stated the necessity of good works at Rom 2:6-10

(God) “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness — indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

So, it requires faith to believe in Jesus and it also requires that we obey Him in order to be "saved." (Everyone is saved from eternal, physical death and will be resurrected. Were one spends eternity is the issue in question.)

Otherwise; … why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say? (Luke 6:46)

And

Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Mat 7:21)

Which [SIZE=12pt]g[/SIZE]oes hand in hand with "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

 

[aspen]

Absolutely.

I have noticed that people tend to confuse the concepts of salvation by works (i.e.: “earning salvation“) and the fact that works are necessary for salvation.

Hebr 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

and

James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone

Our good works do not “earn” us anything because we were “created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. “ (Eph 2:10) Good works are what we’re supposed to be doing; that’s what God designed us to do.

Luke 17:10 So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, “We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.”

Paul stated the necessity of good works at Rom 2:6-10

(God) “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness — indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

So, it requires faith to believe in Jesus and it also requires that we obey Him in order to be "saved." (Everyone is saved from eternal, physical death and will be resurrected. Were one spends eternity is the issue in question.)

Otherwise; … why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say? (Luke 6:46)

And

Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Mat 7:21)

Which goes hand in hand with "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Totally agree

 

[mjrhealth]

He is OUR KING not our mate.

If you believe that than you have never met Him. Jesus is my best friend,mate if you should put it that way. and He would have it no other way.

Aspen, what has religion got to do with having a relationship with God. religion told me there is a God, God Himself taught me about Himself without the religion.Do you really thing God needs.

Religion to save anyone,
a clergy, hierarchy to save anyone,
even the bible to reach out to and save anyone,

If your answer is yes, than you missed the whole thing. Religion puts chains around His feet,it puts shackles upon His hands, it puts a gag across His mouth,and says only we can talk to God, you want Him you go though us. I have learned more about my Father and Jesus than I was ever taught whilst a religious person, I received the Holy Spirit before I even knew there was such a thing.Religion will always keep you a slave to it, Jesus came so we could have Life in Him, to set us free, but we must choose whom we serve, Him or religion, which will it be.

And thanks Blackmaninc, you are right on, they confuse His works withe their works.

In all His love.

 

[ATP]

Why ATP? Because religion told you He is omnipresent....

Love told me he was. God is love not religion.

 

[BlackManINC]

If you believe that than you have never met Him. Jesus is my best friend,mate if you should put it that way. and He would have it no other way.

Aspen, what has religion got to do with having a relationship with God. religion told me there is a God, God Himself taught me about Himself without the religion.Do you really thing God needs.

Religion to save anyone,
a clergy, hierarchy to save anyone,
even the bible to reach out to and save anyone,

If your answer is yes, than you missed the whole thing. Religion puts chains around His feet,it puts shackles upon His hands, it puts a gag across His mouth,and says only we can talk to God, you want Him you go though us. I have learned more about my Father and Jesus than I was ever taught whilst a religious person, I received the Holy Spirit before I even knew there was such a thing.Religion will always keep you a slave to it, Jesus came so we could have Life in Him, to set us free, but we must choose whom we serve, Him or religion, which will it be.

And thanks Blackmaninc, you are right on, they confuse His works withe their works.

In all His love.

There is nothing more blasphemous to the holy spirit than a fellow dirt bag in Christ telling me that I have to do something, or perform some kind of work as my ticket to salvation airlines, while they flaunt their personal success stories, and numerous masters degrees, and missionary works, in everyone's face as somehow his ticket. That is a lie straight from the king of the bottomless pit himself. All kinds of heretical works based beliefs are being preached on this site, whether its evolution, or "saving the planet" from global warming and the black soot from hell, or some other spoiled cursed baloney. You can shove it all up Satan's ass by preaching the real gospel. God doesn't give a rats ass about your works when it comes down to it, in his eyes, we are all as much a dirt bag as the unbeliever until the rapture.

 

[ATP]

There is nothing more blasphemous to the holy spirit than a fellow dirt bag in Christ telling me that I have to do something, or perform some kind of work as my ticket to salvation airlines, while they flaunt their personal success stories, and numerous masters degrees, and missionary works, in everyone's face as somehow his ticket. That is a lie straight from the king of the bottomless pit himself. All kinds of heretical works based beliefs are being preached on this site, whether its evolution, or "saving the planet" from global warming and the black soot from hell, or some other spoiled cursed baloney. You can shove it all up Satan's ass by preaching the real gospel. God doesn't give a rats ass about your works when it comes down to it, in his eyes, we are all as much a dirt bag as the unbeliever until the rapture.

Finally, someone who isn't NON-OSAS on this forum.

 

[aspen]

Aspen, what has religion got to do with having a relationship with God.

Ok, this kind of statement really make me wonder if it is possible for you to understand what I am writing.......

I thought I was being clear about the relationship between religion and a relationship with God. One more time; the relationship between religion and a relationship with God is similar to a relationship between language and communication. Religion is simply the language we use to communicate with God. Without language (a shared lexicon) we could not communicate with each other - without religion we cannot communicate with God.

religion told me there is a God, God Himself taught me about Himself without the religion.

By your very words, you learned that there is a God from religion - without religion, you would still be in the dark. Also, God spoke to you about Himself through the language of religion. Because religion is the language you speak, God used it to teach you about Himself.

Do you really thing God needs.

Religion to save anyone,
a clergy, hierarchy to save anyone,
even the bible to reach out to and save anyone,

It is not a matter of 'what God needs', it is a bout what God chooses to use. He uses our language, which is religion to speak to us. Makes sense, because Jesus meets us where we are at. If you are going to ask why God uses religion to communicate with us, you need to ask the same thing about everything God uses.

Religion puts chains around His feet,it puts shackles upon His hands, it puts a gag across His mouth,and says only we can talk to God, you want Him you go though us.

Make no mistake, religion didn't kill Jesus, we did.

Also, you are describing an abusive church, not religion. And finally, in my experience, many people who reject religion provide the same sort of negativity as you - a litany of misunderstanding about religion.

I have learned more about my Father and Jesus than I was ever taught whilst a religious person, I received the Holy Spirit before I even knew there was such a thing.

Sounds like the definition of private interpretation to me.

Religion will always keep you a slave to it, Jesus came so we could have Life in Him, to set us free, but we must choose whom we serve, Him or religion, which will it be.

Here is an example of a false dichotomy - setting Jesus up against religion. Jesus spoke against the restrictions of the law, not religion. You have adopted this false dichotomy from your Protestant Fathers, who create the notion that religion is bad and spirituality is good. See, they had to do this in order to justify breaking away from Catholicism. So in essence, your anti-religion mindset is actually adopted from doctrine, which is in fact, religion, itself.

And as far as confusing my works with God - not going to happen. My works have been redeemed along with my faith - they are inseparable. Jesus and Paul spoke against works in the context of Temple worship and Generational Redemption (belief that as long as I am a Jew, I am chosen). Luther and Calvin were the people who over interpreted those ideas and generalized them to Catholic teachings. Fact is, the Reformers had to equate the Vatican with the Temple in order to justify rebelling against it.

 

[aspen]

There is nothing more blasphemous to the holy spirit than a fellow dirt bag in Christ telling me that I have to do something, or perform some kind of work as my ticket to salvation airlines, while they flaunt their personal success stories, and numerous masters degrees, and missionary works, in everyone's face as somehow his ticket.

Dirtbag in Christ? Do you understand justification and the process of sanctification? Nothing wrong with talking about the work we are doing in Christ and our sanctifying relationship with Him. Talking about spiritual growth beats wallowing around in the mire of sin all the time. Are we creature being redeemed or are we victims and whiners, remaining fixated on our sinful natures?

That is a lie straight from the king of the bottomless pit himself. All kinds of heretical works based beliefs are being preached on this site, whether its evolution, or "saving the planet" from global warming and the black soot from hell, or some other spoiled cursed baloney. You can shove it all up Satan's ass by preaching the real gospel. God doesn't give a rats ass about your works when it comes down to it, in his eyes, we are all as much a dirt bag as the unbeliever until the rapture.

And you are caught in self-loathing and perpetual victim hood. I encourage you to overthrow your old man and embrace your sanctification.

 

[BlackManINC]

Dirtbag in Christ? Do you understand justification and the process of sanctification? Nothing wrong with talking about the work we are doing in Christ and our sanctifying relationship with Him. Talking about spiritual growth beats wallowing around in the mire of sin all the time. Are we creature being redeemed or are we victims and whiners, remaining fixated on our sinful natures?


And you are caught in self-loathing and perpetual victim hood. I encourage you to overthrow your old man and embrace your sanctification.

Creatures being redeemed? Ah yes, more works based salvation, we have to redeem ourselves by our smiley faced good works, because apparently, Jesus didn't finish the work of redemption on the cross. When Jesus declared to the thief on the cross that on that day, he will be with Jesus in the paradise to come, he actually instead had to go through some mystical process of "sanctification" and "redemption". When Jesus proclaimed to his father that "it is finished", what he really meant is that its a process. He didn't quite make it to the finish line for us. Private interpretation much? Here is the real gospel in a nutshell for those who are confused: confess with your heart and soul that Jesus Christ is God who came in the flesh to atone for our sins, who created the heavens and the earth, admit that you are a dirt bag, that it is you who deserves to die for your sins and not the Lord, and that you deserve to get curb stomped by the Lord for your iniquities, and then you'll be redeemed. No works necessary, as Jesus already paid the ransom for our souls.

 

[ATP]

Creatures being redeemed? Ah yes, more works based salvation, we have to redeem ourselves by our smiley faced good works, because apparently, Jesus didn't finish the work of redemption on the cross. When Jesus declared to the thief on the cross that on that day, he will be with Jesus in the paradise to come, he actually instead had to go through some mystical process of "sanctification" and "redemption". When Jesus proclaimed to his father that "it is finished", what he really meant is that its a process. He didn't quite make it to the finish line for us. Private interpretation much? Here is the real gospel in a nutshell for those who are confused: confess with your heart and soul that Jesus Christ is God who came in the flesh to atone for our sins, who created the heavens and the earth, admit that you are a dirt bag, that it is you who deserves to die for your sins and not the Lord, and that you deserve to get curb stomped by the Lord for your iniquities, and then you'll be redeemed. No works necessary, as Jesus already paid the ransom for our souls.

Yup, we are only believing once here..Rom 10:9-10 NIV.

 

[aspen]

Creatures being redeemed? Ah yes, more works based salvation, we have to redeem ourselves by our smiley faced good works, because apparently, Jesus didn't finish the work of redemption on the cross. When Jesus declared to the thief on the cross that on that day, he will be with Jesus in the paradise to come, he actually instead had to go through some mystical process of "sanctification" and "redemption". When Jesus proclaimed to his father that "it is finished", what he really meant is that its a process. He didn't quite make it to the finish line for us. Private interpretation much? Here is the real gospel in a nutshell for those who are confused: confess with your heart and soul that Jesus Christ is God who came in the flesh to atone for our sins, who created the heavens and the earth, admit that you are a dirt bag, that it is you who deserves to die for your sins and not the Lord, and that you deserve to get curb stomped by the Lord for your iniquities, and then you'll be redeemed. No works necessary, as Jesus already paid the ransom for our souls.

So what you are really saying is that God decided to murder His Son and then tap all us dirtbags on the head with His magic wand which suddenly retards Him to what we really are - dirtbags, without any desire to change us, but simply to help himself ignore our evil?

And this is accomplish by conjuring Him through our use of magic words? I would like to see the verse you found supporting your dirtbag gospel?

Sorry, BM - you gospel is the Bad News - nothing good about spending eternity with a god that refuses to see or redeem His rotten creation

 

[ATP]

without any desire to change us, but simply to help himself ignore our evil?

Incorrect.

John 14:25-27 NIV - The Holy Spirit comforts and helps us.
John 14:26 NIV / 1 Cor 2:11-16 NIV / 1 John 2:27 NIV - The Holy Spirit teaches us.
John 16:8-11 NIV - The Holy Spirit convicts us of righteousness.
Heb 12:4-13 NIV - God Disciplines His Children

- ATP

 

[BlackManINC]

So what you are really saying is that God decided to murder His Son and then tap all us dirtbags on the head with His magic wand which suddenly retards Him to what we really are - dirtbags, without any desire to change us, but simply to help himself ignore our evil?

And this is accomplish by conjuring Him through our use of magic words? I would like to see the verse you found supporting your dirtbag gospel?

Sorry, BM - you gospel is the Bad News - nothing good about spending eternity with a god that refuses to see or redeem His rotten creation

Mr. ATP already answered that question for you, but I'm sure you already knew that and you're just playing games with the word of God as is typical with many on this site, which is why I'm not wasting my time citing something that should be widely understood if you declare yourself a Christian.

 

[aspen]

Mr. ATP already answered that question for you, but I'm sure you already knew that and you're just playing games with the word of God as is typical with many on this site, which is why I'm not wasting my time citing something that should be widely understood if you declare yourself a Christian.

I see, I made too much sense

Go forth and be miserable

 

[aspen]

ATP - discipline is only given out if a change in behavior is the goal. Anything less is punishment

 

[arold10]

Well, I was listening to a testimony of an ex-sorcerer from Republic of Congo who stated that the queen of heaven is a powerful demonic spirit who takes the character of a female who is currently in charge of technology along with computer science in this world. Based on his own statement, she is the one who's influencing fast advancement in the technological field that will help the Antichrist to establish his government along with having people to wear the mark of the beast 666.

 

[aspen]

Well, I was listening to a testimony of an ex-sorcerer from Republic of Congo who stated that the queen of heaven is a powerful demonic spirit who takes the character of a female who is currently in charge of technology along with computer science in this world. Based on his own statement, she is the one who's influencing fast advancement in the technological field that will help the Antichrist to establish his government along with having people to wear the mark of the beast 666.

Well that certainly settles the matter.....

 

[ATP]

ATP - discipline is only given out if a change in behavior is the goal. Anything less is punishment

But notice the one that is disciplining us. It's not our fourth grade school teacher, rather discipline comes from the Father, the creator of the universe.

 

[aspen]

But notice the one that is disciplining us. It's not our fourth grade school teacher, rather discipline comes from the Father, the creator of the universe.

So the discipline is different? Rather than directing change, it is restricted to punishment?