The REAL Baptism in Acts 2

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amigo de christo

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I see examples of both cases . some recieved the baptism of the Holy Ghost first , then were water baptized
The gentiles in the house of cornelious actually had the baptism of the Holy Ghost fall upon them first , then
Peter was sure to ensure they got water baptized . So , yeah lambs should be water baptized as well .
Yes indeed . Even the eunach got water baptized by phillip . SO let us just keep the pattern as did the early church .
AND let the GLORIOUS LORD BE PRAISED . Put those hands up and give much thanks unto the glorious LORD .
 

marksman

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Actually in the Greek, this is wrong, it does not fit, using the rules of language

it would more apply be tranlated

Repent and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (a 2nd person plural phrase)

and let every one of you be baptized unto remission of sin (3rd person singular phrase)

We see in the following verses, Those who believed (repented) were baptized, because they recieved the gift of the spirit, ie, remission of sin.
In my Greek it is right.
 

marksman

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We still aren't in agreeance or understanding each other. I was saying baptism by the Holy Ghost came first. This came in Acts 2:4. You are looking at a different baptism which happened in verse 41.

The group that was baptized in verse 41 missed the first baptism. They mocked the Holy Spirit baptism. Peter preached to them and rebuked them and they had a change of heart.
Acts 2 v 4 involved the disciples. In Acts 2 v41 it involved the Jews who were not believers. Two different situations two different people.
 

Eternally Grateful

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In my Greek it is right.
Your Greek?

you have a different Greek then everyone else?

In the English language it would be against the rules to write it in the way it is written. 2nd and 3rd person subjects, verbs and objects do not refer to the apposing type.
 

Marymog

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The early Christians were Jewish. The gentile Christians were continuing in their practice.

Much love!
So you have been taught that they continued it because of tradition! I think they continued it because Jesus instructed them to! If he told them not to do it they would have stopped.
 

marks

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So you have been taught that they continued it because of tradition!
I don't remember if this was something I was taught, or just concluded on my own. But a big part of this understanding is found in Paul's satisfaction at not baptizing very many people, and in saying that he was not sent to baptize.

I think Jesus told the Jews to baptize while the Gospel of the Kingdom was being offered to Israel, with God's plan that Israel show God's salvation to the nations, and that the gentiles would come to God by joining Israel, through belief, through confession, and through baptism.

Later, when Israel has finally completely rejected their kingdom by rejecting their Messiah, water baptism no longer served this purposed. And the one baptism for the church is the Spirit baptism.

Much love!
 
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Marymog

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I don't remember if this was something I was taught, or just concluded on my own. But a big part of this understanding is found in Paul's satisfaction at not baptizing very many people, and in saying that he was not sent to baptize.

I think Jesus told the Jews to baptize while the Gospel of the Kingdom was being offered to Israel, with God's plan that Israel show God's salvation to the nations, and that the gentiles would come to God by joining Israel, through belief, through confession, and through baptism.

Later, when Israel has finally completely rejected their kingdom by rejecting their Messiah, water baptism no longer served this purposed. And the one baptism for the church is the Spirit baptism.

Much love!
So you really don't think Jesus instructed them to baptize???? Is that what you are saying???

BTW....thank you for you articulate and heartfelt response.
 
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marks

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So you really don't think Jesus instructed them to baptize???? Is that what you are saying???

BTW....thank you for you articulate and heartfelt response.
I don't think that Jesus instructed gentiles to be baptized following Israel's rejection of Jesus their Messiah.

I think that Jesus did instruct water baptism, and that this water baptism was in conjuction with gentiles joining to Israel.

Much love!
 

Marymog

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I don't think that Jesus instructed gentiles to be baptized following Israel's rejection of Jesus their Messiah.

I think that Jesus did instruct water baptism, and that this water baptism was in conjuction with gentiles joining to Israel.

Much love!
I am truly, truly trying to understand what you are saying. You said you don't think that Jesus instructed gentiles to be baptized but then go on to say He instructed water baptism in conjunction with the gentiles joining to Israel. I'm confused.....sorry!
 
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marks

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I am truly, truly trying to understand what you are saying. You said you don't think that Jesus instructed gentiles to be baptized but then go on to say He instructed water baptism in conjunction with the gentiles joining to Israel. I'm confused.....sorry!
This is what I understand.

Water baptism was practiced in Israel as part of the method by which the gentile would convert to Judiasm. The idea was that the water would wash away their pagan lives, coming into the life of an Israelite, identifying with Israel.

God's promise of the kingdom to Israel include that they would be the ones through whom the world would know God. Until Israel's final rejection of their Messiah in Acts 28, this was God's doing, and so gentiles would be baptized to identify with Israel, and Israel's Messiah.

After Israel's rejection, Paul said the Gospel would now be sent directly to the Gentile, and they would receive it. And so water baptism no longer carried it's significance of joining with Israel through Christ, and the gentiles come directly to Jesus.

Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, wrote, I wasn't sent to baptize. I believe this is why.

Just the same, baptism is continued today with a new idea of identification with Jesus Christ. I think of this as a church tradition.

Much love!
 
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Marymog

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This is what I understand.

Water baptism was practiced in Israel as part of the method by which the gentile would convert to Judiasm. The idea was that the water would wash away their pagan lives, coming into the life of an Israelite, identifying with Israel.

God's promise of the kingdom to Israel include that they would be the ones through whom the world would know God. Until Israel's final rejection of their Messiah in Acts 28, this was God's doing, and so gentiles would be baptized to identify with Israel, and Israel's Messiah.

After Israel's rejection, Paul said the Gospel would now be sent directly to the Gentile, and they would receive it. And so water baptism no longer carried it's significance of joining with Israel through Christ, and the gentiles come directly to Jesus.

Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, wrote, I wasn't sent to baptize. I believe this is why.

Just the same, baptism is continued today with a new idea of identification with Jesus Christ. I think of this as a church tradition.

Much love!
Thank you for that more definitive articulation of your thoughts.

Paul did say he wasn't sent to baptize but he also said he did baptize. What he meant is that his primary purpose was not baptism.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you that baptism is a church tradition since it was commanded by Christ. I don't think commands are equal to tradition.

Respectfully, Mary
 
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marks

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Paul did say he wasn't sent to baptize but he also said he did baptize. What he meant is that his primary purpose was not baptism.
I appreciate our conversations!

I see a certain conflictedness in Paul in this passage.

1 Corinthians 1:12-18
12) Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14) I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15) Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16) And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

He did baptize, but he was thankful it was not many of them. He saw the risk that people would think he was making his own disciples.

He was thankful he didn't baptize more than he did, because Christ didn't send him to baptize, but to preach the gospel, that the preaching of the gospel is the power of God to us who are saved.

The way this reads to me is that Paul started off baptizing, but stopped, with the knowledge that wasn't his mission. His mission was not to baptize, and why not? There's the real question to me.

Why wasn't Paul sent to baptize?

You've pointed out that he did baptize, with the implication that he should have been baptizing also, but it seems Paul didn't feel that way if he was thankful for not baptizing more than he had.

Do you have thoughts on that?

Much love!
 
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Marymog

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I appreciate our conversations!

I see a certain conflictedness in Paul in this passage.

1 Corinthians 1:12-18
12) Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14) I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15) Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16) And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

He did baptize, but he was thankful it was not many of them. He saw the risk that people would think he was making his own disciples.

He was thankful he didn't baptize more than he did, because Christ didn't send him to baptize, but to preach the gospel, that the preaching of the gospel is the power of God to us who are saved.

The way this reads to me is that Paul started off baptizing, but stopped, with the knowledge that wasn't his mission. His mission was not to baptize, and why not? There's the real question to me.

Why wasn't Paul sent to baptize?

You've pointed out that he did baptize, with the implication that he should have been baptizing also, but it seems Paul didn't feel that way if he was thankful for not baptizing more than he had.

Do you have thoughts on that?

Much love!
Thanks Marks. First off I want to point out how refreshing it is to have a conversation with someone that doesn't spew out the usual Catholic bashing comments. I appreciate it.

My Thoughts: Paul was not writing about his views on baptism. What he was doing was writing about a Church that had divided itself along the lines of which prominent church leaders they identified with. VS's 1:12-13 show us that they were labeling themselves by the names of Apollos, Cephas, Paul, and Christ.

When Paul said that he was thankful that he only baptized a few, he was saying so directly in response to the divisions that were taking place. That’s exactly what he says in 1:15 – “…so that no one would say you were baptized in my name.” He didn’t say he was thankful that they weren’t baptized. He was thankful that he didn’t baptize them so they couldn’t claim him as their savior or leader (vs1:13). His point was that he didn’t go there to make converts to Paul, but converts to Christ.

With that said I don't understand how you are equating baptism to "church tradition"? You also suggested "baptism no longer carried it's significance". Both those statements seem to me to be opposite of what Scripture says since we are to follow in His footsteps (Jesus was baptized), Peters instruction to be baptized with water (Acts 10:47) and the Ethiopian Eunuch requested he be baptized by Phillip in water. Jesus gave us an example by being baptized, He said baptize, they did baptize and it has continued for 2,000 years. When one is commanded to do something that is not a tradition.....that is a commandment. I think it is "significant" to do what we are told and follow the instructions of the Apostles (Luke 10:16).

I hope you can see why I am struggling to accept your "tradition" and "no longer significant" statements.

Mary
 

marks

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My Thoughts: Paul was not writing about his views on baptism. What he was doing was writing about a Church that had divided itself along the lines of which prominent church leaders they identified with. VS's 1:12-13 show us that they were labeling themselves by the names of Apollos, Cephas, Paul, and Christ.

When Paul said that he was thankful that he only baptized a few, he was saying so directly in response to the divisions that were taking place. That’s exactly what he says in 1:15 – “…so that no one would say you were baptized in my name.” He didn’t say he was thankful that they weren’t baptized. He was thankful that he didn’t baptize them so they couldn’t claim him as their savior or leader (vs1:13). His point was that he didn’t go there to make converts to Paul, but converts to Christ.
These are good points. The primary context is division, and he was thankful it wasn't him that baptized, lest that add to their sense of divisiveness.

I still wonder though in that he was sent to preach the Gospel, and not baptize, that the power is in the preaching, and we would go on to infer, not in baptizing.

I hope you can see why I am struggling to accept your "tradition" and "no longer significant" statements.

I don't fault you for thinking as you do. I realize that likely the majority of Christians would more readily agree with you than me, I think!

With that said I don't understand how you are equating baptism to "church tradition"? You also suggested "baptism no longer carried it's significance". Both those statements seem to me to be opposite of what Scripture says since we are to follow in His footsteps (Jesus was baptized), Peters instruction to be baptized with water (Acts 10:47) and the Ethiopian Eunuch requested he be baptized by Phillip in water. Jesus gave us an example by being baptized, He said baptize, they did baptize and it has continued for 2,000 years. When one is commanded to do something that is not a tradition.....that is a commandment. I think it is "significant" to do what we are told and follow the instructions of the Apostles (Luke 10:16).

Jesus was baptized with John's baptism, which then stopped being practiced.

Acts 19:1-5
1) And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

They had received John's baptism, but that wasn't considered the same, so they were baptized again.

Just like John's baptism was meant for a certain purpose, I think that early water baptism was likewise meant for a certain purpose, and that purpose does not exist in the present day, just like with John's baptism.

I know the primary views on modern water baptism are baptismal regeneration vs. testifying to a new life. I think that the testimony of a new life is a life lived in trust and love. I think that regeneration happens when the Holy Spirit indwells us as we come to faith.

In September of 1981, when I had realized the Bible was true, and that Jesus was actually Lord, and that I needed to start obeying Him, the first thing I did was go get water baptized! And I've never regretted it!

It was a "double dunk", my sister and I, one in each of our pastor's hands. Wonderful!

Much love!
 
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GRACE ambassador

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not all baptism is done with water...It isn't even the most important baptism!
Precious friend, will have to definitely agree: "not all {13} baptisms
are done with water."

After my experiences with Various Confusing water traditions, I researched,
according to God's "study" Rule # 2, and discovered:

Baptisms Scriptural Summary!:

And, Please Be Very Richly Blessed In CHRIST, And HIS Word Of Truth!:

LORD JESUS, please open our hearts to All of Thy Truth. Amen:

Q: Does God Still Require water baptism, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE?:

Prophecy/Law:
►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =

A) water, For remission of sins!:
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke_7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25; Isaiah 52:15)
+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)

Rightly Divided (2_Timothy_2:15 KJB!) From Things That Differ!:

Mystery/GRACE!:
►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually
Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1_Corinthians_12:13 KJB!)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE {MOST Important}?
OR, EQUALS TWO?

Is it not Possible That God's Answer Of "No water baptism, for us Today," Under
HIS Pure GRACE, absolutely vanquishes Satan's Confusion into oblivion!?

Precious friend(s), Please Be Very RICHLY Blessed!
 
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